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Thread: How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

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    How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

    I'm back from early voting. My state is a Super Tuesday one and early voting is open; I have a day off from work today so I went ahead and got there, and cast my ballot.

    After months agonizing about this, and despite not really being a Sanders fan, I voted for Sanders after all.


    I started my comments here this election cycle by calling Sanders a moron, a hypocrite, divisive, vacuously populist, opportunistic, partially responsible for Trump's win, ineffective, with pies-in-the-sky ideas, and called his followers hopelessly naive and arrogant. I said that in my limited capacity of being just one citizen, one vote, one common Joe, I'd still try to do all I could to try and prevent Sanders from winning the Dem nomination, and speaking against him here was part of this effort.

    And I ended up voting for him.

    I did it for several reasons, not exactly because I like him more than any other candidate.

    See, it's because my ultimate goal is not to select candidate X or candidate Y in the Dem primaries. My ultimate goal is to beat Trump in November.

    I came to believe that Sanders is the candidate who can generate the most enthusiasm, the most turnout, and is maybe the only one who can be competitive (as long as he picks a good veep) and beat Trump (although it won't be easy - but I think all the others are even worse equipped to beat Trump). I also warmed up to his Medicare For All proposal, despite being against it in the past, and since health care is a big focus for me, it was a big motivator for my vote: maybe it is time after all for single payer in America, and no president will be as enthusiastic about it as Bernie Sanders, so, this may be the one decent shot at doing it (although I remain very skeptical that it can be done, and worried about unintended consequences and turmoil - but I guess we can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs).

    I also stopped worrying about moderates being alienated by Sanders and sitting out. You know, first of all, this is probably an exaggerated concern. The only people among moderates and independents who may come over to the Dem side are the anti-Trump folks, and those are almost guaranteed to prefer Sanders to Trump even if they don't particularly like Sanders. The moderates and independents who are for Trump won't come around and vote for any Dem, anyway. They are lost causes already.

    Besides, Bernie's most radical ideas that spook moderates are not even likely to pass Congress, even if both houses get a Democratic supermajority, which is very unlikely anyway. If the Dems don't get both chambers and with a comfortable majority, then Sanders ideas won't pass anyway. It's not like America will turn "communist" (and I know, he is not communist) with widespread nationalizations and a Great Depression kind of Wall Street collapse if Sanders wins. Life will continue. Capitalism will survive.

    Sanders regardless of what he does or doesn't do, or is not allowed to do (by means of congressional obstructionism), will still nominate judges and justices much more attentive to the rights of the citizens, in order to balance a bit the right-leaning courts that have been stuffed with people nominated by Trump who will be always more likely to find for the interests of corporations rather than the interests of the people.

    Now, don't disappoint me, Senator Sanders!

    I do hope that he picks a veep like Val Demings or Sherrod Brown or Stacey Abrams rather than one like Ayanna Presley or campaign insiders Nina Turner or Ro Khanna. He needs to show some ability to compromise and make concessions, and to reach out to the rest of the party beyond his circle of ultra-progressive people.


    I'd prefer to see him pick someone to his right (even if still progressive) rather than an ideological twin. And if it's a youngish female of color, even better, because she will add some demographics to the ticket and enhance its support in November.

    OK, so, Go Bernie!

    I just hope that if he is not nominated, his followers will still vote Dem, as long as it is in a fair process.
    Last edited by GreatNews2night; 02-17-20 at 03:37 PM.
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    Re: How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

    I don't know what the future holds, but I know that a lot of people are dramatically underestimating the power of generating hope. For some reason the "moderate" Democrats always try to feed us a down-the-middle candidate that inspires no one and often loses. You see Bloomberg and Biden as safe, but if 2016 taught us anything, normal rules and perspectives don't matter anymore, it's a different ballgame. The candidate we need is the person who can get the most people motivated and hopeful, and in that Sanders is the best choice, despite his vulnerabilities.

    On a side note, he really, REALLY needs to pick a centrist candidate to balance the ticket, and it should probably be someone who's running. Hillary's big unforced error was refusing to unite the party and turning her back on progressives. A Sanders / Klobuchar ticket would unite the party and kick the rats out of the White House.

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    Re: How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

    Well good for you.

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    Re: How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I don't know what the future holds, but I know that a lot of people are dramatically underestimating the power of generating hope. For some reason the "moderate" Democrats always try to feed us a down-the-middle candidate that inspires no one and often loses. You see Bloomberg and Biden as safe, but if 2016 taught us anything, normal rules and perspectives don't matter anymore, it's a different ballgame. The candidate we need is the person who can get the most people motivated and hopeful, and in that Sanders is the best choice, despite his vulnerabilities.

    On a side note, he really, REALLY needs to pick a centrist candidate to balance the ticket, and it should probably be someone who's running. Hillary's big unforced error was refusing to unite the party and turning her back on progressives. A Sanders / Klobuchar ticket would unite the party and kick the rats out of the White House.
    Agreed.

    And I don't see Biden and Bloomberg as safe. I see them as guaranteed to lose to Trump, because most Sanders fans won't vote for them. If we believe that at least 25% of the Dem electorate are very committed Bernie fans, these people will be disgusted if Biden wins the nomination with a sleight of hand, or if Bloomberg buys his way into the nomination. The Dem nominee can't beat Trump if 25% of the Dem electorate defects.

    Sure, in 2016 only 10% of disappointed Bernie fans crossed over to the other side... but this time, I think a lot more of them would do it, and likely all of them would do it if Bloomberg wins in a brokered convention, despite not being the candidate with the most pledged delegates. Even I would not vote blue if this happened, let alone Bernie's fans.

    I didn't include Sanders/Klobuchar because I thought Sanders wouldn't invite her, and would get someone else like one of the names I suggested. But yes, if he does invite her, his ticket will be much more successful in November.
    Please take COVID-19 seriously; don't panic but don't deny it; practice social distancing (stay 6ft from people); wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, don't gather with too many people, so that you help us contain it. It's not a concern just for the elderly. If we allow our health care system to be overwhelmed, all age groups who might need all other care will suffer.

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    Re: How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

    this will be a good thread to revisit after the election.

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    Re: How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

    I don't think he is electable and I am not sure he is temperamentally suited to that office, . Assuming he gets in, he'll be -well - okay. He does not scare me, and what he sells deserves a damn good hearing. He's more electable than Biden and certainly not repugnant to me like Bloomburg,.

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    Re: How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    I'm back from early voting. My state is a Super Tuesday one and early voting is open; I have a day off from work today so I went ahead and got there, and cast my ballot.

    After months agonizing about this, and despite not really being a Sanders fan, I voted for Sanders after all.


    I started my comments here this election cycle by calling Sanders a moron, a hypocrite, divisive, vacuously populist, opportunistic, partially responsible for Trump's win, ineffective, with pies-in-the-sky ideas, and called his followers hopelessly naive and arrogant. I said that in my limited capacity of being just one citizen, one vote, one common Joe, I'd still try to do all I could to try and prevent Sanders from winning the Dem nomination, and speaking against him here was part of this effort.

    And I ended up voting for him.

    I did it for several reasons, not exactly because I like him more than any other candidate.

    See, it's because my ultimate goal is not to select candidate X or candidate Y in the Dem primaries. My ultimate goal is to beat Trump in November.

    I came to believe that Sanders is the candidate who can generate the most enthusiasm, the most turnout, and is maybe the only one who can be competitive (as long as he picks a good veep) and beat Trump (although it won't be easy - but I think all the others are even worse equipped to beat Trump). I also warmed up to his Medicare For All proposal, despite being against it in the past, and since health care is a big focus for me, it was a big motivator for my vote: maybe it is time after all for single payer in America, and no president will be as enthusiastic about it as Bernie Sanders, so, this may be the one decent shot at doing it (although I remain very skeptical that it can be done, and worried about unintended consequences and turmoil - but I guess we can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs).

    I also stopped worrying about moderates being alienated by Sanders and sitting out. You know, first of all, this is probably an exaggerated concern. The only people among moderates and independents who may come over to the Dem side are the anti-Trump folks, and those are almost guaranteed to prefer Sanders to Trump even if they don't particularly like Sanders. The moderates and independents who are for Trump won't come around and vote for any Dem, anyway. They are lost causes already.

    Besides, Bernie's most radical ideas that spook moderates are not even likely to pass Congress, even if both houses get a Democratic supermajority, which is very unlikely anyway. If the Dems don't get both chambers and with a comfortable majority, then Sanders ideas won't pass anyway. It's not like America will turn "communist" (and I know, he is not communist) with widespread nationalizations and a Great Depression kind of Wall Street collapse if Sanders wins. Life will continue. Capitalism will survive.

    Sanders regardless of what he does or doesn't do, or is not allowed to do (by means of congressional obstructionism), will still nominate judges and justices much more attentive to the rights of the citizens, in order to balance a bit the right-leaning courts that have been stuffed with people nominated by Trump who will be always more likely to find for the interests of corporations rather than the interests of the people.

    Now, don't disappoint me, Senator Sanders!

    I do hope that he picks a veep like Val Demings or Sherrod Brown or Stacey Abrams rather than one like Ayanna Presley or campaign insiders Nina Turner or Ro Khanna. He needs to show some ability to compromise and make concessions, and to reach out to the rest of the party beyond his circle of ultra-progressive people.


    I'd prefer to see him pick someone to his right (even if still progressive) rather than an ideological twin. And if it's a youngish female of color, even better, because she will add some demographics to the ticket and enhance its support in November.

    OK, so, Go Bernie!

    I just hope that if he is not nominated, his followers will still vote Dem, as long as it is in a fair process.
    Ah, you are now a Bernie bro!

    I won't vote for him in the primary, and if he is the candidate, I WILL vote for him.

    I hope you will vote for the Dem candidate if it is not Bernie.
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    Re: How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

    Some posters here helped me reach this conclusion and overcome my initial aversion to Bernie.

    MovingPictures made me see that my preoccupation with alienating moderates was overblown, by demonstrating that the moderates who say "I don't like Trump but I can't vote for Bernie because I'm afraid that Medicare For All will dilute my Medicare benefits or I will have to pay higher taxes" are only paying lip service to "I don't like Trump." Make no mistake, these people WILL vote for Trump, even if the Dems nominate a more moderate candidate. They are lost causes.

    Surrealistik held a long and strong debate with me that made me see Medicare For All in a better light, made me believe more that it can be funded after all, and reassured me about some statistical discrepancies in the report of Sander's list of donors.

    Cardinal made me see that being divisive and speaking here against Bernie is only helping Trump. He was also instrumental in easing my catastrophic thoughts that "it's all doomed, no Dem can defeat Trump anyway."

    Even Winston with whom I clashed more, made me see that even the people who endorse(d) a Bernie or Bust approach, can be reasonable and can ultimately commit to backing another Dem nominee if that person is not Bernie. I was reassured to see that Winston, someone I thought would sit out if Bernie doesn't win the Dem nomination, said that he will pinch his nose and vote for the Dem nominee against Trump. So even if one of the more extremist Bernie fans here can avoid being divisive, I need to avoid it too.
    Please take COVID-19 seriously; don't panic but don't deny it; practice social distancing (stay 6ft from people); wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, don't gather with too many people, so that you help us contain it. It's not a concern just for the elderly. If we allow our health care system to be overwhelmed, all age groups who might need all other care will suffer.

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    Re: How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbyoung View Post
    Ah, you are now a Bernie bro!
    OH NO!!!! [GN2N runs around and hits his head on the wall]

    LOL

    I hope you will vote for the Dem candidate if it is not Bernie.
    Of course I will! Look at my signature! Didn't I just say that my main goal is to beat Trump?
    Please take COVID-19 seriously; don't panic but don't deny it; practice social distancing (stay 6ft from people); wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, don't gather with too many people, so that you help us contain it. It's not a concern just for the elderly. If we allow our health care system to be overwhelmed, all age groups who might need all other care will suffer.

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    Re: How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I don't know what the future holds, but I know that a lot of people are dramatically underestimating the power of generating hope. For some reason the "moderate" Democrats always try to feed us a down-the-middle candidate that inspires no one and often loses. You see Bloomberg and Biden as safe, but if 2016 taught us anything, normal rules and perspectives don't matter anymore, it's a different ballgame. The candidate we need is the person who can get the most people motivated and hopeful, and in that Sanders is the best choice, despite his vulnerabilities.

    On a side note, he really, REALLY needs to pick a centrist candidate to balance the ticket, and it should probably be someone who's running. Hillary's big unforced error was refusing to unite the party and turning her back on progressives. A Sanders / Klobuchar ticket would unite the party and kick the rats out of the White House.
    Really? So Trump's pick is the one that will beat him? There is something fishy about that. I think we would be better off with the candidate Trump fears most instead.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
    - Voltaire

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