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How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

Well clearly you are not typical, but congrats anyway. But I am not talking about voting against Trump, he is the most unpopular President ever. I'm talking about a vote to upend the system in DC. That is what Sanders represents. He will be painted as a radical who wants to take away your employer healthcare and give it to illegal immigrants. There are millions of voters who live paycheck to paycheck that depend on their employers for HC and they will not want it messed with. In fact they will not want anything messed with because they worry they will not be able to get by if that happens.

Thanks.

If they depend on their employers for being under-insured with huge premiums and deductibles and co-insurance (I showed you that 29% of all employed people fall in that category) they will be more than happy to switch from their lousy plan to an excellent Medicare plan.

If they do NOT have employer-sponsored insurance and are uninsured or are self-employed needing to pay out of pocket for expensive private plans, they will be delighted with having Medicare.

If they are already on Medicare which they love they won't be risking anything.

If they have lousy VA coverage they will be happy to migrate to Medicare.

If they have lousy Medicaid coverage they will be happy to migrate to Medicare.

And so on and so forth. I showed you in another post how many Americans fall in the above categories: 211 million.

Me, I have excellent coverage through my employer but will be fine with changing to Medicare if need be, and would be able to afford paying out of pocket anyway. None of this will affect me. Still, for the sake of my fellow Americans, I'm willing to vote for the candidate who is proposing Medicare For All.

I don't dispute that SOME people will be worse off and may vote against it. 119 million people have good insurance through their employers or their parents' employers.

But the thing is, you're probably only thinking from the standpoint of the middle class with good insurance. Two thirds of the country are NOT in this group. For all of them, Medicare for All will be either equal to what they have now (the 44 million already on it) or will be an improvement.

Why should people be afraid of switching to something better?

You seem to think that these people would lose their employer's insurance and would then be uninsured. No! They would have Medicare, which has a reputation for being excellent!

Imagine that you're driving an outdated, out of line Volkswagen Beetle decades old, falling apart, all rusty and full of problems.

Someone comes and says, "here, I'm giving you a 2020 brand new Audi, with all the bells and whistles, take the keys, it's yours, free of charge, we have this promotion and we are giving away a few Audis and you are one of the winners."

Would you say "Oh no, please no, I hate change, I'll be so upset if I change from my Beetle that will probably die tomorrow, to this spectacular brand new car!"?

Change is only scary if it is for the worse; not if it is an upgrade for the better.

You are flying coach, like sardines. The flight attendant comes and says, "Sir, we have a seat left in first class, we decided to pick a passenger from coach and upgrade him for free, and our choice is you! Huge 180-degrees flat bed, great top level wines and spirits, gourmet food, dedicated bathroom, cute flight attendants, state-of-the-art entertainment with a dedicated tablet, free wi-fi. And it's all yours for no additional cost. Come, come!"

You'd then say, "oh no, leave me alone, I'm scared, I hate change!!!"?
 
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Thanks.

If they depend on their employers for being under-insured with huge premiums and deductibles and co-insurance (I showed you that 29% of all employed people fall in that category) they will be more than happy to switch from their lousy plan to an excellent Medicare plan.

If the do NOT have employer-sponsored insurance and are uninsured or are self-employed needing to pay out of pocket for expensive private plans, they will be delighted with having Medicare.

If they are already on Medicare which they love they won't be risking anything.

If they have lousy VA coverage they will be happy to migrate to Medicare.

If they have lousy Medicaid coverage they will be happy to migrate to Medicare.

And so on and so forth. I showed you in another post how many Americans fall in the above categories: 211 million.

Me, I have excellent coverage through my employer but will be fine with changing to Medicare if need be, and would be able to afford paying out of pocket anyway. None of this will affect me. Still, for the sake of my fellow Americans, I'm willing to vote for the candidate who is proposing Medicare For All.

I don't dispute that SOME people will be worse off and may vote against it. 119 million people have good insurance through their employers or their parents' employers.

But the thing is, you're probably only thinking from the standpoint of the middle class with good insurance. Two thirds of the country are NOT in this group. For all of them, Medicare for All will be either equal to what they have now (the 44 million already on it) or will be an improvement.

Why should people be afraid of switching to something better?

You seem to think that these people would lose their employer's insurance and would then be uninsured. No! They would have Medicare, which has a reputation for being excellent!

We are constantly told of this excellent M4A plan, yet never directed to examine that plan's (current bill's) implementation details. The reason (excuse?) is that it simply does not exist in any currently implementable form - therefore it will (must?) first be "fixed" to make it become truly wonderful by some other (future?) bunch of congress critters. You simply can't switch from A to B when B simply does not yet exist.

Calling Medicare (for some, in its current form) excellent while it is currently underfunded, has premiums, deductibles and co-pays and requires (soon to be outlawed?) supplemental co-insurance to satisfy most of its current users is completely dishonest. Our (my girlfriend and I) current Medicare part B household premiums are about $3,200/year which would be $6,400/year ($534/moth) for a four person household - and that is for an already heavily subsidized public insurance plan requiring general revenue to supplement the universal employee/employer (FICA) payroll tax.
 
Bernie will take the Dems Senate hopes down with him. That is the sad fact. The could even lose seats in the House in purple States too. This is not the election to push radical change, voters want sanity and security not another 4 years of chaos. But go ahead vote with your heart instead of your head. What do life long politicians know right? Oh and the Florida polls show Sanders behind Trump and Biden ahead.

Senate Democrats queasy over Sanders as nominee | TheHill

There's no current notion that the Dems will get the Senate anyway.

If Bernie picks his veep wisely - Floridian Val Demings, for example - he will capture Florida.

If Bernie wins the White House and the Dems continue to not have the Senate, fine with me, there will actually be some checks and balances and Bernie will need to negotiate instead of going berserk with his more radical ideas. It is unlikely that the GOP would have supermajority anyway to override vetoes so if the Senate misbehaved, Bernie would use his veto power. We'd still not have the justices and judges being nominated by Trump, so of the three powers, the Dems would be in control of two out of three or would at least put a stop to the GOP's growing grip on the Judiciary.

Bernie without the Senate beats the alternative of Trump with the Senate, or even the alternative of Trump without the Senate (but I find the Senate unlikely to switch hands anyway regardless of who wins).
 
We are constantly told of this excellent M4A plan, yet never directed to examine that plan's (current bill's) implementation details. The reason (excuse?) is that it simply does not exist in any currently implementable form - therefore it will (must?) first be "fixed" to make it become truly wonderful by some other (future?) bunch of congress critters. You simply can't switch from A to B when B simply does not yet exist.

Calling Medicare excellent while it is currently underfunded, has premiums, deductibles and co-pays and requires (soon to be outlawed?) supplemental co-insurance to satisfy most of its current users is completely dishonest. Our (my girlfriend and I) current Medicare part B household premiums are about $3,200/year which would be $6,400/year ($534/moth) for a four person household - and that is for an already heavily subsidized public insurance plan requiring general revenue to supplement the universal employee/employer (FICA) payroll tax.

Still, you chose to be on Medicare, right?

Most people on Medicare love it.

And like I've already extensively mentioned to you, Medicare For All is an IDEA, a PROJECT, and of course it's not implementable day one; Bernie will have to slowly work on it. It took two years to come up with the ACA. It's not done from night to day. And once it gets put together, it will be a gradual implementation, like Bernie says (and unlike what Warren shamefully lies about).

But sure, it may never pass. It will face head winds by powerful lobbies, right-wing courts, and lousy Congressional critters.

But it is a lot more guaranteed to never happen, if we don't even try.
 
Yep. Bernie in a recent interview explicitly said that he changed his mind from his youth years, and now he NO LONGER supports the nationalization of means of production. So much for the socialist label.

Bugatti is owned by Volkswagen. But nobody would confuse a Bugatti Veyron with a VW Beetle.

Socialism is not a one-size-fits-all system. State socialism as practiced in countries like Cuba is nothing like the social contract and mildly regulated capitalism of Europe or even the United States during the New Deal era.

I do agree with Paul Krugman's wry musing that Bernie tends to poison his own well a little bit by bandying the term, but give Krugman credit for this observation:

So why does Sanders call himself a socialist? I’d say that it’s mainly about personal branding, with a dash of glee at shocking the bourgeoisie.

After decades of the Right flinging the term "socialism" and "communism" the way monkeys fling poo, and poking the eye of every Democrat, even a conservative Dem like Obama, maybe Sanders has decided to poke back.

Maybe a lot of rather ordinary Americans with rather ordinary desires for rather ordinary things like a secure retirement, good schools, safe food and medicines, healthcare, a clean environment and decent jobs need to start shocking the bougies and poking back.
 
There's no current notion that the Dems will get the Senate anyway.

If Bernie picks his veep wisely - Floridian Val Demings, for example - he will capture Florida.

If Bernie wins the White House and the Dems continue to not have the Senate, fine with me, there will actually be some checks and balances and Bernie will need to negotiate instead of going berserk with his more radical ideas. It is unlikely that the GOP would have supermajority anyway to override vetoes so if the Senate misbehaved, Bernie would use his veto power. We'd still not have the justices and judges being nominated by Trump, so of the three powers, the Dems would be in control of two out of three or would at least put a stop to the GOP's growing grip on the Judiciary.

Bernie without the Senate beats the alternative of Trump with the Senate, or even the alternative of Trump without the Senate (but I find the Senate unlikely to switch hands anyway regardless of who wins).

If Bernie only ran on ending the current “corruption” and restore the American people’s faith in government institutions, I bet he would not so much of a concern amongst the Democratic Party.
 
There's no current notion that the Dems will get the Senate anyway.


Heh heh, don't be so sure.
After their performance in service to the King of America?
I wouldn't bet on Republicans keeping anything.

A lot of people are very angry and not all of them are on the left.
Mitch went too far this time, way too far.
 
Heh heh, don't be so sure.
After their performance in service to the King of America?
I wouldn't bet on Republicans keeping anything.

A lot of people are very angry and not all of them are on the left.
Mitch went too far this time, way too far.

Call me a cynic, but I bet republicans would be willing to make it criminal to belong in the Democratic Party or even vote for them.
 
Still, you chose to be on Medicare, right?

Most people on Medicare love it.

And like I've already extensively mentioned to you, Medicare For All is an IDEA, a PROJECT, and of course it's not implementable day one; Bernie will have to slowly work on it. It took two years to come up with the ACA. It's not done from night to day. And once it gets put together, it will be a gradual implementation, like Bernie says (and unlike what Warren shamefully lies about).

But sure, it may never pass. It will face head winds by powerful lobbies, right-wing courts, and lousy Congressional critters.

But it is a lot more guaranteed to never happen, if we don't even try.

As opposed to what other "option"? If one declines (opts out of) Medicare part B at (or after) age 65 then getting Medicare Part B later (opting back in) would cost 10% in additional premiums for every year that you had opted out.

Part B late enrollment penalty | Medicare
 
Call me a cynic, but I bet republicans would be willing to make it criminal to belong in the Democratic Party or even vote for them.

You mean Trump Republicans? Absolutely. We have DP-ers (not just one, quite a few) who INSIST that (A) the Constitution says liberalism is illegal, or (B) Democrats are criminals, or (C) Democrats are communists...which of course is the same as option B anyway.

I think there are a lot more former Republicans and conservatives who are disgusted enough that they will vote Democrat in order to destroy the current GOP so that they can go back in and rebuild it.

This current incarnation of the GOP has actually done real damage.
Like I said, they went too far this time.
 
Thanks.

If they depend on their employers for being under-insured with huge premiums and deductibles and co-insurance (I showed you that 29% of all employed people fall in that category) they will be more than happy to switch from their lousy plan to an excellent Medicare plan.

If they do NOT have employer-sponsored insurance and are uninsured or are self-employed needing to pay out of pocket for expensive private plans, they will be delighted with having Medicare.

If they are already on Medicare which they love they won't be risking anything.

If they have lousy VA coverage they will be happy to migrate to Medicare.

If they have lousy Medicaid coverage they will be happy to migrate to Medicare.

And so on and so forth. I showed you in another post how many Americans fall in the above categories: 211 million.

Me, I have excellent coverage through my employer but will be fine with changing to Medicare if need be, and would be able to afford paying out of pocket anyway. None of this will affect me. Still, for the sake of my fellow Americans, I'm willing to vote for the candidate who is proposing Medicare For All.

I don't dispute that SOME people will be worse off and may vote against it. 119 million people have good insurance through their employers or their parents' employers.

But the thing is, you're probably only thinking from the standpoint of the middle class with good insurance. Two thirds of the country are NOT in this group. For all of them, Medicare for All will be either equal to what they have now (the 44 million already on it) or will be an improvement.

Why should people be afraid of switching to something better?

You seem to think that these people would lose their employer's insurance and would then be uninsured. No! They would have Medicare, which has a reputation for being excellent!

Imagine that you're driving an outdated, out of line Volkswagen Beetle decades old, falling apart, all rusty and full of problems.

Someone comes and says, "here, I'm giving you a 2020 brand new Audi, with all the bells and whistles, take the keys, it's yours, free of charge, we have this promotion and we are giving away a few Audis and you are one of the winners."

Would you say "Oh no, please no, I hate change, I'll be so upset if I change from my Beetle that will probably die tomorrow, to this spectacular brand new car!"?

Change is only scary if it is for the worse; not if it is an upgrade for the better.

You are flying coach, like sardines. The flight attendant comes and says, "Sir, we have a seat left in first class, we decided to pick a passenger from coach and upgrade him for free, and our choice is you! Huge 180-degrees flat bed, great top level wines and spirits, gourmet food, dedicated bathroom, cute flight attendants, state-of-the-art entertainment with a dedicated tablet, free wi-fi. And it's all yours for no additional cost. Come, come!"

You'd then say, "oh no, leave me alone, I'm scared, I hate change!!!"?

Change is scary to those on the edge and I have grave doubts about Bernie being able to convince them that he will be good for them. There will be 1000's of ads telling them otherwise, many with Sander's doing the talking. Most cannot afford to lose their HC and that is what they will be told. I just don't see the masses unhappy enough to go for broke. They will hold their noses and keep what they know with disastrous results for the country. Believe me I hope I m wrong.
 
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Heh heh, don't be so sure.
After their performance in service to the King of America?
I wouldn't bet on Republicans keeping anything.

A lot of people are very angry and not all of them are on the left.
Mitch went too far this time, way too far.

Amen, I hope you are right. Little would give me more pleasure than seeing Moscow Mitch lose his throne. He can immigrate to Russia, then.
 
As opposed to what other "option"? If one declines (opts out of) Medicare part B at (or after) age 65 then getting Medicare Part B later (opting back in) would cost 10% in additional premiums for every year that you had opted out.

Part B late enrollment penalty | Medicare

Oh come on. Most seniors count down to the time when they'll become eligible for Medicare, and most jump on it immediately as soon as they are able. It's a vastly popular program.

Still, "Medicare For All" is likely to be a misnomer. If Sanders is able to implement it (he needs to become POTUS first, of course), it won't be exactly what Medicare is now. For one thing, supplemental insurance will have to be phased out. For another, the program will need to be better funded and he does have ideas for that. So, all this premium you are paying may change. Anyway, we'll see. All other developed countries were able to successfully implement a version of single payer / universal healthcare. We are the richest country in the world. We should be able to have it too.
 
Change is scary to those on the edge and I have grave doubts about Bernie being able to convince them that he will be good for them. There will be 1000's of ads telling them otherwise, many with Sander's doing the talking. Most cannot afford to lose their HC and that is what they will be told. I just don't see the masses unhappy enough to go for broke. They will hold their noses and keep what they know with disastrous results for the country. Believe me I hope I m wrong.

When they are told so, Bernie will say "you are not losing your health care, you are getting Medicare which is better for you."

You keep operating under the impression that these people will simply lose their health care and become uninsured. Obviously, that's NOT what is being proposed.

And you know what? The real threat to healthcare is Trump's GOP. Trump in his recently proposed budget and against his campaign promises, is proposing cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. Remember Paul Ryan's plan for healthcare? It was basically screwing all Americans, throwing MILLIONS out of health care all together, doing away with protection for pre-existing conditions, etc.

Remember when the one person left in the GOP with integrity, John McCain, killed another GOP attempt at screwing Americans out of health care by turning his thumb down, and how Trump got furious?

So, Bernie wants to grant healthcare to ALL Americans and he is the devil incarnate, while the Republicans do all they can to undermine health care and throw people out of it, and you think that they will be the ones who will be able to convince the people that they need to stick with Trump if they want good healthcare? Tell me another good joke, please.
 
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When they are told so, Bernie will say "you are not losing your health care, you are getting Medicare which is better for you."

You keep operating under the impression that this people will simply lose their health care and become uninsured. Obviously, that's NOT what is being proposed.

And you know what? The real threat to healthcare is Trump's GOP. Trump in his proposed budget and against his campaign promises, is proposing cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. Remember Paul Ryan's plan for healthcare? It was basically screwing all Americans, throwing MILLIONS out of health care all together, doing away with protection for pre-existing conditions, etc.

Remember when the one person left in the GOP with integrity, John McCain, killed another GOP attempt at screwing Americans out of health care by turning his thumb down, and how Trump got furious?

So, Bernie wants to grant healthcare to ALL Americans and he is the devil incarnate, while the Republicans do all they can to undermine health care and throw people out of it, and you think that they will be the ones who will be able to convince the people that they need to stick with Trump if they want good healthcare? Tell me another good joke, please.

Here is a thought: have Bernie campaign on improving the system we have now, and not do anything to undermine the healthcare of people that already have it.

Is that too hard?
 
Here is a thought: have Bernie campaign on improving the system we have now, and not do anything to undermine the healthcare of people that already have it.

Is that too hard?

I wish, I'd love to see Bernie initially propose just that, then win the presidency, then later say that he was getting more ambitious and willing to propose more, but Bernie is kind of stubborn, you know? Your idea is what Buttigieg is proposing. Like I said, my main goal is to beat Trump. If I thought that Buttigieg would be more likely to beat Trump than Bernie, I'd be joining his campaign, not Bernie's. But there are also advantages in overhauling the whole system and going as close as possible to true single payer (although in a slow transition). For one thing, you achieve savings when you do that.

But again, what's the alternative? Trump's GOP? Keep enabling them, and soon Medicaid and Medicare will have steep cuts, same with SS, pre-existing conditions will again disqualify people, for-profit insurers will again become abuse and will deny claims without much room for appeal with the conservative courts backing them, and so on. Mark my words.
 
When they are told so, Bernie will say "you are not losing your health care, you are getting Medicare which is better for you."

You keep operating under the impression that these people will simply lose their health care and become uninsured. Obviously, that's NOT what is being proposed.

And you know what? The real threat to healthcare is Trump's GOP. Trump in his recently proposed budget and against his campaign promises, is proposing cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. Remember Paul Ryan's plan for healthcare? It was basically screwing all Americans, throwing MILLIONS out of health care all together, doing away with protection for pre-existing conditions, etc.

Remember when the one person left in the GOP with integrity, John McCain, killed another GOP attempt at screwing Americans out of health care by turning his thumb down, and how Trump got furious?

So, Bernie wants to grant healthcare to ALL Americans and he is the devil incarnate, while the Republicans do all they can to undermine health care and throw people out of it, and you think that they will be the ones who will be able to convince the people that they need to stick with Trump if they want good healthcare? Tell me another good joke, please.

You are mistaken if you think I don't know all those things but you are overestimating the intelligence of the average voter who will take one look at "crazy Bernie" and say they do not trust him. There is a reason Trump wants Bernie as the nominee and it is not because he thinks he will lose to him. Just saying....

Please watch this video. Republicans are being told to vote for Bernie in the primaries.

John Avlon: Why is Trump pumping up Bernie Sanders? - CNN Video
 
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Trump has ALREADY campaigned on promises that he would do away with the ACA and get great and beautiful health care, much better than the ACA (which actually became a popular program, with time, once people understood it better)... and what came out of it? Nothing. Huge broken promise. He even had to acknowledge defeat in saying "who would have thought that healthcare was so complicated?" in one rare moment of actually admitting to have failed, something Trump abhors. Trump is now still paying lip service to keeping pre-existing conditions but is actually working behind the scene to screw it, and that's demonstrable; he'll get attacked by ads too. Two can play this game.

And then he goes around and in the Fall campaign, he'll be suddenly able to recover from the disillusionment generated by his broken promise, to say again "don't go with Bernie who is proposing decent health care for all Americans, go with me, I promised beaaaauuutttiiiful healthcare for everybody, didn't deliver, thought it was all too complicated, I'm proposing now cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security, but hey, believe me, this time I will deliver beaaaauuuuuttiiiful healthcare for everybody! You can trust me!

Fool me once... fool me twice... you get my point.

No, I definitely don't think that healthcare will be a point for the GOP to defeat Bernie. Much the opposite, it will be a point to denounce their hypocrisy and two-faced promises and their true intentions of screwing Americans and favoring abusive, for-profit huge health insurance corporations.

Polls say that the #1 concern for Americans is health care. The GOP has a sustained track record of making it worse and having no viable plan to make it better (they kept posturing for years against the ACA and passing bills meant to fail just to say that they were doing something, but as soon as they had the White House, the House, and the Senate, so the posturing would be impossible, they folded and did nothing other than to continue to undermine the ACA without any alternative, and THAT'S how you all say that Bernie will lose the election??? The ONE guy (other than imploding Warren) who actually wants to extend health care to all Americans? That one? The one who will be running against the people with the colossal blunders regarding health care???

Again, tell me another good joke.
 
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Trump has ALREADY campaigned on promises that he would do away with the ACA and get great and beautiful health care, much better than the ACA (which actually became a popular program, with time, once people understood it better)... and what came out of it? Nothing. Huge broken promise. He even had to acknowledge defeat in saying "who would think that healthcare was so complicated?" in one rare moment of actually admitting to have failed, something Trump abhors. Trump is now still paying lip service to keeping pre-existing conditions but is actually working behind the scene to screw it, and that's demonstrable; he'll get attacked by ads too. Two can play this game.

And then he goes around and in the Fall campaign, he'll be suddenly able to recover from the disillusionment generated by his broken promise, to say again "don't go with Bernie who is proposing decent health care for all Americans, go with me, I promised beaaaauuutttiiiful healthcare for everybody, didn't deliver, thought it was all too complicated, I'm proposing now cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security, but hey, believe me, this time I will deliver beaaaauuuuuttiiiful healthcare for everybody! You can trust me!

Fool me once... fool me twice... you get my point.

No, I definitely don't think that healthcare will be a point for the GOP to defeat Bernie. Much the opposite, it will be a point to denounce their hypocrisy and two-faced promises and their true intentions of screwing Americans and favoring abusive, for-profit huge health insurance corporations.

Polls say that the #1 concern for Americans is health care. The GOP has a sustained track record of making it worse and having no viable plan to make it better (they kept posturing for years against the ACA and passing bills meant to fail just to say that they were doing something, but as soon as they had the White House, the House, and the Senate, so the posturing would be impossible, they folded and did nothing other than to continue to undermine the ACA without any alternative, and THAT'S how you all say that Bernie will lose the election??? The ONE guy (other than imploding Warren) who actually wants to extend health care to all Americans? That one? The one who will be running against the people with the colossal blunders regarding health care???

Again, tell me another good joke.

Again you ignore the millions of voters that are happy with their current employer healthcare. They don't want to be thrown in with all the "rabble" that don't have it. Bernie will lose votes because of his MFA not gain them. Only 39% of Americans have a favorable view of socialism and many more would vote for a gay or women President over a socialist. That is the stark reality. This election is the Dems to lose and they seem determined to do it.
 
When they are told so, Bernie will say "you are not losing your health care, you are getting Medicare which is better for you."

You keep operating under the impression that these people will simply lose their health care and become uninsured. Obviously, that's NOT what is being proposed.

And you know what? The real threat to healthcare is Trump's GOP. Trump in his recently proposed budget and against his campaign promises, is proposing cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. Remember Paul Ryan's plan for healthcare? It was basically screwing all Americans, throwing MILLIONS out of health care all together, doing away with protection for pre-existing conditions, etc.

Remember when the one person left in the GOP with integrity, John McCain, killed another GOP attempt at screwing Americans out of health care by turning his thumb down, and how Trump got furious?

So, Bernie wants to grant healthcare to ALL Americans and he is the devil incarnate, while the Republicans do all they can to undermine health care and throw people out of it, and you think that they will be the ones who will be able to convince the people that they need to stick with Trump if they want good healthcare? Tell me another good joke, please.

Do you realize that you are advocating that all people become dependent on more federal government assistance (having UHC) while simultaneously complaining that the federal government not only could but would cut benefits to the elderly and disabled on which many have become totally dependent?
 
Here is a thought: have Bernie campaign on improving the system we have now, and not do anything to undermine the healthcare of people that already have it.

Is that too hard?
Actually, that is what Bernie is now doing.
Medicare was intended to be for all. Initially launched it covered the elderly
Bernie wants to change that so that everyone can enjoy Medicare
He also wants to make it better by adding dental, eye, and home care coverage
Based on what he has presented it appears there will be no premiums or need for supplemental insurance to pay medical expenses
So, your wish has been granted, Bernie is proposing to improve the existing Medicare program such that it becomes an effective Medicare program for all
 
Bring it on. Mods know what you’re referring to. At least you get licks from your Bernie pets. You gotta love Bloomberg’s ad calling out the Bernie Brown shirts, eh?

Tell me, should I just let your people have the first and only smear on each new thread, or the first and last smear?

Have a nice day.
 
You are mistaken if you think I don't know all those things but you are overestimating the intelligence of the average voter who will take one look at "crazy Bernie" and say they do not trust him. There is a reason Trump wants Bernie as the nominee and it is not because he thinks he will lose to him. Just saying....

Please watch this video. Republicans are being told to vote for Bernie in the primaries.

John Avlon: Why is Trump pumping up Bernie Sanders? - CNN Video

Like I said multiple times but you insist in ignoring (although I gave you the link and the quote) more recently Trump came to the conclusion that it is best for him to run against Bloomberg (probably in no small measure because he knows that this way, the Bernie fans will defect, immediately cutting off 25%+ of the Dem vote). If Trump has one big asset, is good political intuition. He literally said (I quoted it but you ignored it) "Better to run against Bloomberg; Bernie has followers."

And I'm aware that idiots in the GOP are trying to get followers to prop up Bernie in primaries, thinking it will be easier to beat him, contrary to the superior wisdom of their own president. I actually started a thread about it here, so you are not telling me anything new. But one, they are mistaken; Bloomberg is more fragile, and now Trump himself knows it. Two, hey, if they want to do this, let's work together to make it come back and bite them in the ass.

Can you imagine how entertaining, if they keep propping Bernie up, and then get their wish and Bernie runs against Trump... but beats him? :lamo

It's the same dangerous strategy that made Hillary lose... she also thought that it would be good to prop up Trump as the least likely one to beat her... we saw how that worked out, right?
 
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