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Healthcare as a Right

marke said:
The fears of being sick and broke could be removed from everyone on the planet for a short time at least for probably less than one thousand trillion dollars. Solving American fears of sickness and poverty could possibly be done for less than 100 trillion dollars, at least in the short run.
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Are you going to answer the question? Are you currently being covered by Medicare?


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BlueTex said:
Are you going to answer the question? Are you currently being covered by Medicare?


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The US government signed me up on Medicare when I turned 65. I did not do it voluntarily, the government forced me to do it.
 
marke said:
The US government signed me up on Medicare when I turned 65. I did not do it voluntarily, the government forced me to do it.
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And there we go..[emoji2957]


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marke said:
The fears of being sick and broke could be removed from everyone on the planet for a short time at least for probably less than one thousand trillion dollars. Solving American fears of sickness and poverty could possibly be done for less than 100 trillion dollars, at least in the short run.
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That some people are still debating whether universal public healthcare is a necessity for a modern nation tells you how far behind America is when it comes to civilisation.
 
marke said:
That would work if only we could scrape up $5 or $6 trillion extra tax dollars each year in order to cover all the costs of universal government healthcare.
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I am not sure you understand what I just said. You pay for no private insurance and pay more taxes for Medicare for all
 
BlueTex said:
And there we go..[emoji2957]


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And the democrat government is willing to spend trillions of dollars it does not have to guarantee every person on US soil the right to free healthcare. But that is not wise considering continuing to spend money it does not have will eventually lead to a serious financial crash of the economy.
 
Manc Skipper said:
That some people are still debating whether universal public healthcare is a necessity for a modern nation tells you how far behind America is when it comes to civilisation.
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My neighbors all have boats so I should buy a boat even though I cannot afford it? If the US keeps spending money it does not have it will crash the economy, no matter how valuable the things may be that the money is spent on. Thousands of Americans have reaped a combined total of hundreds of billions of dollars through pork barrel spending we could have done without over the last several decades, and now we are feeling the consequences. Every candidate on the democrat platform is proposing major tax hikes because they know America is seriously in debt and getting worse.
 
Citizen said:
I am not sure you understand what I just said. You pay for no private insurance and pay more taxes for Medicare for all
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That is what Obamacare tried to do. The plan was for the young and healthy to pay taxes for healthcare coverage they rarely used in order for the government to pay for those who could not keep up with their medical bills on their own. The problem that resulted from that plan is that the poor working people were now paying twice as much for limited government healthcare than they were paying for private insurance, and the government was still subsidizing the universal healthcare program in addition to those individual taxes by hundreds of billions of dollars a year. That sounds to me like a lose-lose proposition at best.
 
Manc Skipper said:
That some people are still debating whether universal public healthcare is a necessity for a modern nation tells you how far behind America is when it comes to civilisation.
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Healthcare in any form is just about collective sense what's reasonable and worth to be count as valuable (answering to question: what kind of society is good for you and other people?). If you blame - more or less - legal corruption you should instead ask why it's even possible in US (how it's enabled). As long as people in US think their current model is best for them you can't build up motivation to make any changes.

I'm not yet convinced if people really want that change anytime soon. When need is real you have right people in Senate / House too - not just Bernie as President (he can't do it alone). Change is coming only when there's enough people wanting it. People in Washington can't keep people as hostage and just let them suffer (if it's getting bad enough). There's always limit how much people can take.

Healthcare for all is working in all Nordic countries, and in Europe (best system is in France) for many decades so far. If you think all of us in those countries are dumb, think a bit harder. I'm not saying you Manc Skipper are one of those.
 
marke said:
And the democrat government is willing to spend trillions of dollars it does not have to guarantee every person on US soil the right to free healthcare. But that is not wise considering continuing to spend money it does not have will eventually lead to a serious financial crash of the economy.
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Trump has spent a trillion dollars he didn't have, giving rich people extra tax breaks, to the benefit the 1%. Spending on healthcare instead makes everyone fitter and more productive.

sjtIiti.jpg
 
marke said:
And the democrat government is willing to spend trillions of dollars it does not have to guarantee every person on US soil the right to free healthcare. But that is not wise considering continuing to spend money it does not have will eventually lead to a serious financial crash of the economy.
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I'll say this again; Britain managed quite well when setting up the NHS when we were stony broke after WW2. America is the wealthiest nation on the planet, thus you have no excuse.
 
marke said:
My neighbors all have boats so I should buy a boat even though I cannot afford it? If the US keeps spending money it does not have it will crash the economy, no matter how valuable the things may be that the money is spent on. Thousands of Americans have reaped a combined total of hundreds of billions of dollars through pork barrel spending we could have done without over the last several decades, and now we are feeling the consequences. Every candidate on the democrat platform is proposing major tax hikes because they know America is seriously in debt and getting worse.
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Boats aren't necessary for your health, and I doubt that many poor people can afford a boat. The US has plenty of money-your 'president' just pledged $700 billion so your already bloated military can have some more toys.
 
marke said:
That is what Obamacare tried to do. The plan was for the young and healthy to pay taxes for healthcare coverage they rarely used in order for the government to pay for those who could not keep up with their medical bills on their own. The problem that resulted from that plan is that the poor working people were now paying twice as much for limited government healthcare than they were paying for private insurance, and the government was still subsidizing the universal healthcare program in addition to those individual taxes by hundreds of billions of dollars a year. That sounds to me like a lose-lose proposition at best.
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Perhaps reading something neutral might enlighten you:

The Affordable Care Act has saved billions in health care costs - STAT
 
VanceMack said:
I didnt say it was 'unconstitutional'...it is EXTRA-constitutional...as in, NOT a requirement and not a right guaranteed by the Constitution. But nice try. Promote still does not mean provide.
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No one on the right says it's "in the constitution", it's something we believe in, and hope to add as an amendment, at some point in the future, as the nation movers more gradually to the left.

I have given my argument on 'promote' and stand by them. It's a vague term and arguing about it's precise meaning is silly.
 
marke said:
That is what Obamacare tried to do. The plan was for the young and healthy to pay taxes for healthcare coverage they rarely used in order for the government to pay for those who could not keep up with their medical bills on their own. The problem that resulted from that plan is that the poor working people were now paying twice as much for limited government healthcare than they were paying for private insurance, and the government was still subsidizing the universal healthcare program in addition to those individual taxes by hundreds of billions of dollars a year. That sounds to me like a lose-lose proposition at best.
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If you think that is what Obamacare is, then you are grossly misinformed. Obamacare is not a government insurance program like Medicare. It is a way to purchase quality private health insurance at a much lower rate.
 
snakestretcher said:
Boats aren't necessary for your health, and I doubt that many poor people can afford a boat. The US has plenty of money-your 'president' just pledged $700 billion so your already bloated military can have some more toys.
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It doesn't matter how much government money Trump or anyone else spends, the US is in serious debt and if something is not done to fix the problem the economy will be getting much worse in the foreseeable future.
 
marke said:
Try contemplating this: The US is more than $20 trillion in debt and going deeper into the hole all the time.
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But we need a wall!!!!!! Lol
 
Manc Skipper said:
Trump has spent a trillion dollars he didn't have, giving rich people extra tax breaks, to the benefit the 1%. Spending on healthcare instead makes everyone fitter and more productive.

sjtIiti.jpg
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Democrats claim our debt problem is due to the fact Trump has signed budget deals Congress sent him. Democrats take the heat off themselves by blaming the rich and blaming republicans for giving money away to the rich. I don't think that is the problem. I believe the US is under water in debt for a number of things, including wasteful spending, graft, corruption, poor budgeting, sloppy accounting, worthless oversight, foolish endowments, out of control pork barrel spending, bad political policies and programs, unnecessary government agencies and redundant government departments, and much, much more.
 
OscarLevant said:
No one on the right says it's "in the constitution", it's something we believe in, and hope to add as an amendment, at some point in the future, as the nation movers more gradually to the left.

I have given my argument on 'promote' and stand by them. It's a vague term and arguing about it's precise meaning is silly.
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Believe in it all you like...but its not a 'right'.
 
Lovebug said:
That would leave us with...if it isn't a right, it should be.
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Go with that.

Heres the reality and why the "health care is a right" argument is so ****ing stupid. In the US, have no problem paying for

Tattoos
Piercings
Cigarettes
Vape supplies
Drugs
Fast food
Video Games
Cell Phones
Cell Phones with data plans
Phone game apps
Satellite TV
Cable TV
Alcohol
Sports drinks
Water (serious...bottled water)
Energy drinks
Coffee...and not just a dollar coffee at the seven eleven.
Junk food on EBT cards
Lottery tickets

and thats just a short list for starters. "The poor" that cant pay for health care plans can pay for billions...not millions...billions in frivolous ****.
 
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