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Protests In Portland

AlphaOmega said:
you didn't answer my question. Nazis removed guns....do you or do you not agree with them on that matter? I love this Nazi comparison as I have a bulleted list to run down. You lefties dodge the direct questions every time. So.....you gonna dodge again or answer. I am against removing guns from citizens. (see its easy to answer) Thats what Nazis did. So prerty please...do you agree with them on this or not? Brace yourself...I have a long list for this argument. It never fails thats why you refuse to answer......on the first one.
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WTF are you actually on about? "Nazis removed guns"? Is this even remotely relevant to the discussion? Lay off the hallucinogens mate, seriously.
 
DamnYankee said:
Leftist Antifa demonstrate the true feeligs of the left and how they view the police and the military. It's a sad testimony as to how far the left has gone, but they are not finished. :(

Antifa Vandalize War Memorial, Attack Cops And Citizens
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ANTIFA GOONS are a perfect portrayal of Leftists.

Think if they got control?

It’s be the USSR, China and every other ****hole Commi hellhole here.

They killed 100 million in the last century... and would be eager to get the tally revved up in this century.
 
snakestretcher said:
WTF are you actually on about? "Nazis removed guns"? Is this even remotely relevant to the discussion? Lay off the hallucinogens mate, seriously.
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You compared nazis to right wingers. You are left wing and I am going to show that Nazis and the left have much more in common. As you just perfectly demonstrated you cant even muster the integrity to answer one on point question. Nazis removed guns. Do you also agree with removing guns from the citizens? Yes or no. So far I do not agree with Nazis. You however are avoiding answering. Shall I bring in some of your gun removal comments and answer for you so that we can move on to the next comparison?
 
AlphaOmega said:
You compared nazis to right wingers. You are left wing and I am going to show that Nazis and the left have much more in common. As you just perfectly demonstrated you cant even muster the integrity to answer one on point question. Nazis removed guns. Do you also agree with removing guns from the citizens? Yes or no. So far I do not agree with Nazis. You however are avoiding answering. Shall I bring in some of your gun removal comments and answer for you so that we can move on to the next comparison?
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Go away and play your infantile word games somewhere else. This thread has NOTHING to do with gun removal in 1933 or whenever that was. Do try to keep up because you're not doing yourself any favours. Have a word with yourself, seriously.
 
snakestretcher said:
Go away and play your infantile word games somewhere else. This thread has NOTHING to do with gun removal in 1933 or whenever that was. Do try to keep up because you're not doing yourself any favours. Have a word with yourself, seriously.
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No your argument is Nazis and right wing are similar. I have just demonstrated that you refused to answer if much like the Nazis...you also agree with gun removal.
As a person on the right...I easily stated I do not agree with them.
You however could not answer truthfully. You instead dodged. You couldn't answer because you do as a fact agree with gun removal. We have your posts to prove it. If I am incorrect about your stance on gun removal, please say so. I will review those gun grab threads to make sure it was the same snakestretcher making those posts.
So thus far I am on record as disagreeing with Nazis on gun control.
You refuse to answer whether you also agree with them even though we have hundreds of posts from you showing that you do.
This was the easy question. Are you bailing already? Surely I as a right winger have more in common with Nazis than those on the left. Not so sure of yourself all of a sudden or what? You cant even state whether you agree with Nazis or not. I did. Too funny.
 
AlphaOmega said:
No your argument is Nazis and right wing are similar. I have just demonstrated that you refused to answer if much like the Nazis...you also agree with gun removal.
As a person on the right...I easily stated I do not agree with them.
You however could not answer truthfully. You instead dodged. You couldn't answer because you do as a fact agree with gun removal. We have your posts to prove it. If I am incorrect about your stance on gun removal, please say so. I will review those gun grab threads to make sure it was the same snakestretcher making those posts.
So thus far I am on record as disagreeing with Nazis on gun control.
You refuse to answer whether you also agree with them even though we have hundreds of posts from you showing that you do.
This was the easy question. Are you bailing already? Surely I as a right winger have more in common with Nazis than those on the left. Not so sure of yourself all of a sudden or what? You cant even state whether you agree with Nazis or not. I did. Too funny.
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Go away. I'm not interested.
 
snakestretcher said:
You should know better than most!
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Not at all. I always win. Just like now. You couldn't even answer one question truthfully. Pretty sad if you ask me. But then again we Americans fought the Nazis and we still keep our guns to this day. You however want them confiscated from us. Just like the Nazis.
Hey speaking of which.....tell us what Nazi stands for.
 
AlphaOmega said:
Not at all. I always win. Just like now. You couldn't even answer one question truthfully. Pretty sad if you ask me. But then again we Americans fought the Nazis and we still keep our guns to this day. You however want them confiscated from us. Just like the Nazis.
Hey speaking of which.....tell us what Nazi stands for.
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You Americans fought the Nazis? Yes, along with many, many other nations, and so what? Ah yes, the old 'Nazis were socialists because it says 'socialist' in NSDAP' crap. Sorry to disabuse you old chum, but Hitler's naming of the party was done to attract the working class vote; hence 'arbeiten'. Using your 'logic' would you agree that North Korea is a democratic state because they are the Democratic Republic of North Korea? Try harder mate, and quit the idiotic strawmen about 'guns'.
 
Phys251 said:
1. Antifa are anarchists, not liberals.
2. Far-right terrorists pose a much bigger threat than antifa, but you'll never admit that. :shrug:
3. There are protests in Portland all the time.
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2. The "left" seem to ignore the Antifa while coming down hard on the far right.
 
AlphaOmega said:
No your argument is Nazis and right wing are similar.
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That's because... wait for it... the Nazi Party was an extreme violent white supremacist anti-semitic right-wing totalitarian party.

Thus, Neo-Nazi groups are also extreme right wing. Many of the other extreme right-wing groups share the same ideology, tactics and goals as Nazis / Neo-Nazis.

There are some far-right violent groups that have different ideological views than the Nazis -- e.g. the "sovereign citizen" movement doesn't want to be run by a dictator. However, many of those groups are racist, anti-semitic, white supremacist etc and believe in political violence.

Deviating on one specific point (e.g. gun rights) does not magically make Neo-Nazi groups a bunch of leftists. Not that it matters, as the claims about Nazi gun confiscation are wildly exaggerated. In fact, the Nazi party loosened many gun regulations in 1938.
 
Phys251 said:
1. Antifa are anarchists, not liberals.
2. Far-right terrorists pose a much bigger threat than antifa, but you'll never admit that. :shrug:
3. There are protests in Portland all the time.
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The problem, in this case, seems to be that even when no "far-right terrorists" show up Antifa behaves exactly as if they did - by performing (random?) acts of violence and inflicting property damage, simply because that is their nature.
 
Visbek said:
That's because... wait for it... the Nazi Party was an extreme violent white supremacist anti-semitic right-wing totalitarian party.

Thus, Neo-Nazi groups are also extreme right wing. Many of the other extreme right-wing groups share the same ideology, tactics and goals as Nazis / Neo-Nazis.

There are some far-right violent groups that have different ideological views than the Nazis -- e.g. the "sovereign citizen" movement doesn't want to be run by a dictator. However, many of those groups are racist, anti-semitic, white supremacist etc and believe in political violence.

Deviating on one specific point (e.g. gun rights) does not magically make Neo-Nazi groups a bunch of leftists. Not that it matters, as the claims about Nazi gun confiscation are wildly exaggerated. In fact, the Nazi party loosened many gun regulations in 1938.
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Tell us what Nazi stands for.
 
snakestretcher said:
You Americans fought the Nazis? Yes, along with many, many other nations, and so what? Ah yes, the old 'Nazis were socialists because it says 'socialist' in NSDAP' crap. Sorry to disabuse you old chum, but Hitler's naming of the party was done to attract the working class vote; hence 'arbeiten'. Using your 'logic' would you agree that North Korea is a democratic state because they are the Democratic Republic of North Korea? Try harder mate, and quit the idiotic strawmen about 'guns'.
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Hitler openly claimed his party was "socialist". He was against rich capitalists...especially jews. Can you tell us if a socialist who is openly against rich capitalists is currently the democrat front runner? I bet you dodge again.
 
snakestretcher said:
You Americans fought the Nazis? Yes, along with many, many other nations, and so what? Ah yes, the old 'Nazis were socialists because it says 'socialist' in NSDAP' crap. Sorry to disabuse you old chum, but Hitler's naming of the party was done to attract the working class vote; hence 'arbeiten'. Using your 'logic' would you agree that North Korea is a democratic state because they are the Democratic Republic of North Korea? Try harder mate, and quit the idiotic strawmen about 'guns'.
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ok it's real simple...in all honesty, what makes the Nazi's have anything to do with right wing?

IOTW, what about the Nazi's make them right wing as far as politics go?

DO NOT say authoritarianism, please, as we know many other groups that are authoritarian that are not right wing.
 
AlphaOmega said:
Tell us what Nazi stands for.
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:roll:

So your argument is... their name? Why am I not surprised that that's all you've got?

The Nazis were nationalists, anti-Marxist, anti-Communist, racists, anti-civil rights, very hierarchical, pro-business/pro-cartel.

The Nazis privatized numerous industries including banking, railways, steel production, shipbuilding, utilities and more. They did not nationalize industries; they didn't implement a command economy; they weren't interested in wiping out the capitalist class in order to spark a proletarian revolution.

They disdained safety nets, dismantled the Weimar-era welfare system, and even attacked private charities because they believed the weak should perish. If you were able to work, you were ineligible for support. They banned independent unions, and structured one union under Nazi control which... wait for it... did not push for labor rights, rather its goal was to increase production.

They were opposed to free trade, and engaged in protectionist measures.

They obviously didn't believe in civil rights. All sorts of groups were officially suppressed, if not targeted for extermination -- Jews, LGBT, blacks, women. Abortion was not just outlawed, it was a capital offense for so-called "Aryan" (i.e. German, non-Jewish) women, and motherhood was essentially compulsory for them.

There are a few ways that they don't perfectly fit into the left/right spectrum. In particular, there was an anti-semitic impulse that manifested as an anti-capitalist strain -- they added "Socialist" to their name to appeal to that group. That impulse didn't last long. After their election, however, the anti-capitalist wing was run by Röhm; Hitler commanded Röhm to suppress left-wing groups, and then purged and executed him in 1934. Corporations like Krupp and other cartels did very well during the Nazi regime.


So no, the Nazis definitely were not leftists or socialists. They didn't believe in safety nets, redistribution of income, nationalization of industries, removal of the capitalist class, labor rights, civil rights, LGBT rights, equality of individuals, feminism, or pretty much any of the major hallmarks of either leftism or socialism.

Let us know when you can be bothered to learn a little history, kthx.
 
Visbek said:
:roll:

So your argument is... their name? Why am I not surprised that that's all you've got?

The Nazis were nationalists, anti-Marxist, anti-Communist, racists, anti-civil rights, very hierarchical, pro-business/pro-cartel.

The Nazis privatized numerous industries including banking, railways, steel production, shipbuilding, utilities and more. They did not nationalize industries; they didn't implement a command economy; they weren't interested in wiping out the capitalist class in order to spark a proletarian revolution.

They disdained safety nets, dismantled the Weimar-era welfare system, and even attacked private charities because they believed the weak should perish. If you were able to work, you were ineligible for support. They banned independent unions, and structured one union under Nazi control which... wait for it... did not push for labor rights, rather its goal was to increase production.

They were opposed to free trade, and engaged in protectionist measures.

They obviously didn't believe in civil rights. All sorts of groups were officially suppressed, if not targeted for extermination -- Jews, LGBT, blacks, women. Abortion was not just outlawed, it was a capital offense for so-called "Aryan" (i.e. German, non-Jewish) women, and motherhood was essentially compulsory for them.

There are a few ways that they don't perfectly fit into the left/right spectrum. In particular, there was an anti-semitic impulse that manifested as an anti-capitalist strain -- they added "Socialist" to their name to appeal to that group. That impulse didn't last long. After their election, however, the anti-capitalist wing was run by Röhm; Hitler commanded Röhm to suppress left-wing groups, and then purged and executed him in 1934. Corporations like Krupp and other cartels did very well during the Nazi regime.


So no, the Nazis definitely were not leftists or socialists. They didn't believe in safety nets, redistribution of income, nationalization of industries, removal of the capitalist class, labor rights, civil rights, LGBT rights, equality of individuals, feminism, or pretty much any of the major hallmarks of either leftism or socialism.

Let us know when you can be bothered to learn a little history, kthx.
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bzzzt that is a VERY biased point of leftist view and it is also quite incorrect.

here's a good read that will explain:

Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian | Mises Institute

howeever, I REALLY don't believe personally, that any totalitarian form of government "belongs" to a side evident in democratic politics.
 
Hypothetical said:
bzzzt that is a VERY biased point of leftist view and it is also quite incorrect.
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:roll:

You did not refute a single point I made. What a surprise.


here's a good read that will explain:
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Mises? You've got to be kidding me.

Their main argument is that "the Nazis implemented price controls during the 1930s inflation." Their other comments are a mangled mess -- e.g. "socialist states have lines for stores, Nazi Germany had lines for stores, therefore the Nazis were socialists!" Not that I expected anything other than weak, cherry-picked, partisan arguments from them. The only thing the author got right is this:

"Nevertheless, apart from Mises and his readers, practically no one thinks of Nazi Germany as a socialist state."

That's all anyone needed to read from that screed.
 
DamnYankee said:
Leftist Antifa demonstrate the true feeligs of the left and how they view the police and the military. It's a sad testimony as to how far the left has gone, but they are not finished. :(

Antifa Vandalize War Memorial, Attack Cops And Citizens
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Sad (stupid and pathetic, really) are posts like yours that try to link libs/Dems to a violent and loosely organized anti fascist group.

Did you learn that tactic at your local weekly white supremacist meeting?
 
Visbek said:
:roll:

You did not refute a single point I made. What a surprise.



Mises? You've got to be kidding me.

Their main argument is that "the Nazis implemented price controls during the 1930s inflation." Their other comments are a mangled mess -- e.g. "socialist states have lines for stores, Nazi Germany had lines for stores, therefore the Nazis were socialists!" Not that I expected anything other than weak, cherry-picked, partisan arguments from them. The only thing the author got right is this:

"Nevertheless, apart from Mises and his readers, practically no one thinks of Nazi Germany as a socialist state."

That's all anyone needed to read from that screed.
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I didn't need to, all you did was spout liberal talking points about the supposed right wing nazi boogieman. there are multiple arguments in that article btw, and they DID carry those out using centralized government control. i.e. socialism.
 
swing_voter said:
Antifa burns the American flag too.


In the beginning, the Proud Boys were started as a joke, there were just 3 guys. Antifa attacked them, it got on national TV news. It was millions of $ in free advertising. Now Proud Boys is a serious groups with thousands of members. Where there was zero fascism before, there are now thousands of fascist people.

Thanks antifa.
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Interesting logic. :screwy
 
DamnYankee said:
Curious. What do "far right" terrorists groups have to do with freedom and liberty loving normal everyday Americans?
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Nothing. Same as Antifa has nothing to do with “freedom and liberty living normal Americans”.
 
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