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[W:399]The truth about Bootygig's mitary service

Condor060 said:
So what you are saying is, either Democrats are so ignorant they can't even find the medical records which are easy to access or they already know what they say so instead they just do what they have been doing for 4 years.

Just make up fake claims. Sorry, you don't have the credibility to just make your own assumptions and expect everyone to just take your word for it. If you want to profess fake claims like they are evidence of anything then help yourself.

Most reasonable people wouldn't step in that pile of manure but the anti-Trumpist cult will say anything, anytime as they have no credibility to defend.
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I was just trying to straighten you out on how the Selective Service worked during the Viet Nam era. All your litany of suppositions was 180' from the truth.

As far as tRump goes, the claims that his father bought off a podiatrist is entirely possible. That kind of subterfuge was NOT unheard of.<-period

The upshot is it's blatantly apparent you don't know diddly about the military and should avoid wild accusations like you've made in this thread. But, feel free to make a fool of yourself.
 
apdst said:
Kabul isn't an active combat zone. It's considered a rear area.
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Same as you.

Trump's huge fear in this campaign is to be up against a D who was a Navy LT in Afghanistan and who is respected immensely by his superior officers that are colonels and generals (given Buttigieg was a "dirt sailor.") There probably could not be a sharper contrast of anything in Trump's miserable life than this one is.
 
apdst said:
When someone refers to "crossing the wire" it literally means going out on a combat patrol in indian country, locked and loaded. He never did that. He lied.
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Oh right, you're an expert on all things military. :roll:

You didn't even know what a direct commission is. Course, you certainly were never an officer. We were never that hard up for bodies.
 
Royal PITA said:
Apdst is misleading. In this case, LT. Buttigieg was leaving the safety of the compound into hostile territory but not necessarily on a "combat mission" meaning to seek contact with the enemy. However, apdst is wrong to assert LT. Buttigieg was lying since he did, indeed, cross outside the wire on military missions and never once claimed to have engaged in combat.

IMO, apdst and those like him are attacking all vets who don't kiss Trump's ass just like Trump attacked all POWs, KIAs and MIAs. It's a disgraceful form of politics and causes me to think those doing the attacking don't have a clue about the military, combat or losing friends.
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Articulate thanks.

It's also the case apdst and those many like him place party above country.

Unless the country is Russia of course which gets absolute top priority. Always and every time.

The difference between Buttigieg and the Putin-Trump Rowers who served is that Pete remains loyal to the United States while the Rowers are busy Making America Russia Instead. Buttigieg is a serious threat to that no other D candidate is or could be. The Rowers absolute horror is no Trump because that would mean no Putin either and Putin is their real hero who delivered Trump to 'em in the USA as their route to Putin.
 
Condor060 said:
Coming from the party that's lost every claim against Trump in 4 years, That is pretty funny. Projection? :lamo
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That speaks to the moral vacuity of the Republican Party that refused to hold him accountable, nothing else.
 
Tangmo said:
Articulate thanks.

It's also the case apdst and those many like him place party above country.

Unless the country is Russia of course which gets absolute top priority. Always and every time.

The difference between Buttigieg and the Putin-Trump Rowers who served is that Pete remains loyal to the United States while the Rowers are busy Making America Russia Instead. Buttigieg is a serious threat to that no other D candidate is or could be. The Rowers absolute horror is no Trump because that would mean no Putin either and Putin is their real hero who delivered Trump to 'em in the USA as their route to Putin.
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I agree those spreading false information about military personnel but it Buttigieg, Vindman, GW Bush, McCain, Kerry or anyone who served honorably is just as despicable as a lying draft-dodging coward. Kerry is the easiest case for an example because he served honorably then became dishonorable in his actions stateside such as wearing a uniform to testify to Congress and throwing someone elses ribbons over a fence and letting people think they were his.

If someone acts dishonorable while serving, be it Bergdahl, Manning, Gallagher or anyone else, can and should rightfully called on it. Anyone who lies about the service record of a person who served honorably is proving themselves to be both dishonorable and a military hater. If they claim to have served, then I strongly doubt their claims.
 
jpn said:
That speaks to the moral vacuity of the Republican Party that refused to hold him accountable, nothing else.
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Agreed. Worse, they are applauding Trump's dishonest and dishonorable actions. It's one thing to be weak and lame enough to sit silent when a person is acting contrary to their oath of office but to actually applaud them and kiss his ass makes those doing it just as dishonorable as the person they are applauding.
 
Royal PITA said:
I agree those spreading false information about military personnel but it Buttigieg, Vindman, GW Bush, McCain, Kerry or anyone who served honorably is just as despicable as a lying draft-dodging coward. Kerry is the easiest case for an example because he served honorably then became dishonorable in his actions stateside such as wearing a uniform to testify to Congress and throwing someone elses ribbons over a fence and letting people think they were his.

If someone acts dishonorable while serving, be it Bergdahl, Manning, Gallagher or anyone else, can and should rightfully called on it. Anyone who lies about the service record of a person who served honorably is proving themselves to be both dishonorable and a military hater. If they claim to have served, then I strongly doubt their claims.
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I accept the majority of those who say they served despite their support of Trumpolini and the Republican Party that has become what we fought against during the past century. My analysis is that these veterans joined up because they like the militarism of the military. Indeed, while they wore the uniform the shadow they cast in the sunlight presented the silhouette of the fascist soldier in his. While these rightists were incipient then they have become full blown since. By now they are hard core.
 
jpn said:
Oh right, you're an expert on all things military. :roll:

You didn't even know what a direct commission is. Course, you certainly were never an officer. We were never that hard up for bodies.
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Most, not all.
 
Royal PITA said:
Apdst is misleading. In this case, LT. Buttigieg was leaving the safety of the compound into hostile territory but not necessarily on a "combat mission" meaning to seek contact with the enemy. However, apdst is wrong to assert LT. Buttigieg was lying since he did, indeed, cross outside the wire on military missions and never once claimed to have engaged in combat.

IMO, apdst and those like him are attacking all vets who don't kiss Trump's ass just like Trump attacked all POWs, KIAs and MIAs. It's a disgraceful form of politics and causes me to think those doing the attacking don't have a clue about the military, combat or losing friends.
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He wasn't goimg into hostile territory. He literally never left tbe rear echelon.
 
Condor060 said:
There you go again knowingly lying about your cousin and the selective service system.

First off, draft boards do not provide deferments for any medical conditions. They provide deferments for

Conscientious objectors
Surviving sons or brothers in a family
Hardship deferments
Members of Reserve components
Ministers exempted from service.
Ministerial students are deferred from service until they complete their studies.
Certain elected officials are exempt from service as long as they continue to hold office.
Immigrants and dual nationals in some cases

Second, your little story about your cousin sending his medical file to the draft board is a lie.



Postponements, Deferments, Exemptions

Anything else you think you know about you want to post on DP?
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I'm shocked you did some actual research, but those are the rules TODAY. If you look a little closer you notice a section comparing how the draft has changed since Vietnam. My little story, said noting about sending his "medical file" to the draft board. What I said was:

The registration form included questions and requests for documentation, like College status including grades … and potential medical disabilities.
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I don't know how it worked exactly, there was a man (ours was a man) who was the head of the draft board. The board included other local people, some medical doctors, they took whatever documentation was included in the draft registration form into account and, I presume verified it's veracity as best they could or wanted to. If you were on the board and one of your "friends" sons registration form came up … it wasn't uncommon to have some forms that were less scrutinized than others; it wasn't a perfect system which is why it was completely revamped as your research shows.

I try to never lie, I'm sometimes wrong. But, "my little" story, as "I" presented it (not as you paraphrased it) is as true as my memory of 50 years ago can be. The details may be incomplete or not 100% accurate but the FACT that my cousin fell, registered for the draft, referenced his (back) injury on his form and received a 4F without ever being called for a military physical is not a lie. I do remember the relief he felt; that's AbsaByGodLutely ingrained in my memory. I have no reason to lie about any of that.
 
Tangmo said:
I accept the majority of those who say they served despite their support of Trumpolini and the Republican Party that has become what we fought against during the past century. My analysis is that these veterans joined up because they like the militarism of the military. Indeed, while they wore the uniform the shadow they cast in the sunlight presented the silhouette of the fascist soldier in his. While these rightists were incipient then they have become full blown since. By now they are hard core.
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Most military personnel, especially career ones such as myself, do lean right, but traditionally right such as national defense. The "new right", the Party of Trump, attacks military personnel, sides with Russia over our own military and civilian intelligence agencies and, whether they intend to do so or not, do Putin's work for him by seeking to divide our nation and make us question our own institutions such as the United States military and intelligence services.

That said, if a person wants to support Trump, that's their choice. However, once they join Trump in attacking military personnel and our military services, then they were no longer the "right" I have supported since the mid-1970s.

I can attack a candidate's politics without attacking their service record. I can disagree with Buttigieg over a number of issues, especially guns, but I think it's very dishonorable to lie about someone regardless of their politics.
 
jpn said:
That speaks to the moral vacuity of the Republican Party that refused to hold him accountable, nothing else.
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I guess when you fail at dozens of false claims over 4 years you have to blame someone else.

Nobody would ever accuse a Liberal Democrat of manning up to say they were wrong about anything.
 
Irwin Corey said:
I was just trying to straighten you out on how the Selective Service worked during the Viet Nam era. All your litany of suppositions was 180' from the truth.
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I was around during the Vietnam selective service. Were you?

My father served 3 tours in Vietnam

As far as tRump goes, the claims that his father bought off a podiatrist is entirely possible. That kind of subterfuge was NOT unheard of.<-period
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So were bank robberies and murder. Does that mean he did those as well. The fact is you know nothing about Trump and his deferments. All you know is what the Progressive sources want you to say.
The upshot is it's blatantly apparent you don't know diddly about the military and should avoid wild accusations like you've made in this thread. But, feel free to make a fool of yourself.
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Yeah, Right. I served, My Dad served, My brother served, and both my grandfathers served. Did you? I know exactly what I'm talking about and no civilian doctor had the power to stop anyone from military service based on their word alone or a note passed on to a military induction physician.

And no Selective Service board would consider a deferment because you brought a note from a doctor. EVER.

You can continue with that fairy tales all day long but those who did serve know better.
 
Royal PITA said:
Dude, you can't have it both ways; How can Trump be the healthiest President ever but too sick to be a clerk for the Army?
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Having bone spurs doesn't make you sick. It makes you unable to serve. Just like any other deformity.

Where do you people come up with this stuff?
 
Excast said:
Trump supporters have no business criticizing anyone's military service.

Go back to cheering Cadet "Sexual Promiscuity was my personal Vietnam" Bonespurs while he goes out of his way to personally attack more people who have sacrificed more for this country than he could ever dream of.
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apdst said:
I'm not the topic of the thread, but since you can't create an intelligent argument, you're left with no choice but to launch personal attacks.
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Yes you are. You and your bull****. That's what this thread is about, your bull****.
You put it out here, you get called on it. Why aren't you used to it by now? You think maybe you start all over fresh again with each bull**** thread?
 
Paradoxical said:
Sorry for your lack of comprehension. Let me just extract it out for you and explain.



Not sure if you ever did sentence structure in school. The first part of his sentence says "I try to check myself." What this means is that he feels a need to look inward and reflect.WHAT does he need to check himself for? Well, the next part says "and make sure I understand the factors".What factors would that be? What is it that HE has to understand that someone else already understands but he doesn't? To get that answer, we must move on to the last part "that help explain why things are going well". What are we to infer from this? Undoubtedly it means things are going well for HIM and not others because he has to understand something that I don't know and others don't know but only some people know. So, what could these FACTORS be? Just what is it this man must understand? I mean, I don't have anything to understand and YOU don't. Do we? If things "are going well" for me, the factors are I worked hard, I studied, I persevered, etc. So, just what is/are the FACTORS that HE must understand?

I think we can take out the bolded snippet of the next sentence, "I do think that there's a media environment that kind of pushes people into lanes whether they comfortably fit there or not and discuss that/ Here he is suggesting that it is not rally HIM that is doing what needs to be done to be where he is. It is the MEDIA pushing people into lanes whether or nor they comfortably fit, meaning they shouldn't be there and wouldn't be there except for the media. This is the only conclusion one can draw from this. So, he is saying he really shouldn't be where he is at except for the media pushing him over someone else who would be more worthy. WHY would they do that is the question and we get all the answers we need from the last part of his diatribe:

So, the preamble was to apologize for being where he is because....well....were it not for the fact that he is WHITE and MALE he wouldn't be there because it is harder for people of color and females. Right there is the APOLOGY for him being white and male.


THIS is the sort of PC BS that drives people crazy. We don'r need someone like Buttigag or Hillary telling us that we are white and male and therefore we get the breaks because of our whiteness and maleness. This is where you and your party are out of touch. White people and males owe no apology. That happens ONLY in liberal lala land and is dividing the s*** our of our country and needs to stop. We don't need to be scolded by people like AOC, Ilhan, and Buttigag
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That might be the most schizophrenic analysis of simple text I have ever read. He didn't apologize. In fact, if he intended to apologize, he would have used the word "apology", "apologize", "regret", or "sorry". He's not an idiot, so he chose his words in such a way that they couldn't be misconstrued despite knowing that people would try to deliberately misconstrue them.

To take a broader view of your transparent misinterpretation, Buttigieg clearly seems to be unapologetic about his whiteness and his maleness. He can't change them any more than he can change his homosexuality. What he did was recognize the intrinsic advantages he has enjoyed during his lifetime by being white and male. That's what really grinds your gears, so just be honest. The word "privilege" is the new n-word to people who enjoy privilege but are too scared and defensive to admit it.

Lastly, your rant about a political party I've never been a part of doesn't deserve a lengthier response from me.
 
Condor060 said:
I was around during the Vietnam selective service. Were you?
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Yes, I guess, I always thought of it as the DOD Selective Service.

Condor060 said:
My father served 3 tours in Vietnam
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My father fought in WAR 2, beginning to end went from SA to CPO in the process.

My father in law fought in War 2, Korea and Vietnam, on one of his tours in Vietnam he was the IG. (I'm, obviously, very proud of him.)

Condor060 said:
So were bank robberies and murder. Does that mean he did those as well. The fact is you know nothing about Trump and his deferments. All you know is what the Progressive sources want you to say.
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I guess Faux is a Progressive source now?

Donald Trump, who claimed this week that a high draft number kept him from fighting for his country in Vietnam, actually received a series of student deferments while in college and a medical deferment after graduation, according to Selective Service records.
Medical Deferment Allowed Trump to Avoid Vietnam War | Fox News
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Condor060 said:
Yeah, Right. I served, My Dad served, My brother served, and both my grandfathers served.
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I come from a Military Family, so Does my wife; nearly everybody served.

Condor060 said:
Did you?
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I have avoided and refuse to talk about it, because frankly I dispose how "people" on this board shove their service in others faces and act like it makes them a more authoritative voice; IMHO it does not; especially the way it's done here. But most of all I feel it would dishonor the memory of a man I loved dearly if I did.

Condor060 said:
I know exactly what I'm talking about
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No, no you don't. IMHO you don't know s from s.

Condor060 said:
and no civilian doctor had the power to stop anyone from military srvice based on their word alone or a note passed on to a military induction physician.
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But, local draft boards, during Vietnam did, it wasn't based on "a" persons word it was based on the decision of a local board of distinguished citizens. It was abused, certainly, but it was setup that way to expedite the selection process.

Condor060 said:
And no Selective Service board would consider a deferment because you brought a note from a doctor. EVER.
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I'm not sure what a "Selective Service board" is or was; never heard of one. The task of assigning "Draft Classifications" was done at the recommendation of local Draft Boards.

Condor060 said:
You can continue with that fairy tales all day long but those who did serve know better.
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Apparently, at least in your case, NOT.
 
Royal PITA said:
Most military personnel, especially career ones such as myself, do lean right, but traditionally right such as national defense. The "new right", the Party of Trump, attacks military personnel, sides with Russia over our own military and civilian intelligence agencies and, whether they intend to do so or not, do Putin's work for him by seeking to divide our nation and make us question our own institutions such as the United States military and intelligence services.

That said, if a person wants to support Trump, that's their choice. However, once they join Trump in attacking military personnel and our military services, then they were no longer the "right" I have supported since the mid-1970s.

I can attack a candidate's politics without attacking their service record. I can disagree with Buttigieg over a number of issues, especially guns, but I think it's very dishonorable to lie about someone regardless of their politics.
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Yes, that's what I'm saying too. We're well aware the majority of the armed forces lean "right," and that the veterans who support Trump are not the "right" of the 1970s and '80s into the 90s.

Most of the majority of veterans who support Trump are the Putin-Trump Rowers who have gone Putin-Trump fascist since their time in active duty service. Indeed they left the standard and conventional "right" behind some considerable time ago. We're talking decades back in time to LBJ and his Great Society when these guys were only incipient fascists. In the post Great Society they've become full blown as the Reagan-Bushes and the Republican party let 'em down. So now they have the Trump Republican party they've dreamed of plus the fascist twofer of Putin-Trump.
 
I managed to read all 43 pages. I think the best way to describe them is a perpetuation of devastation.

Military service ought to be respected. People can lie on the internet. In fact, they do, and I believe we've seen a good deal of it here. There is no reason to believe that Buttigieg has lied about anything and to continue to breathe life into the failed and destructive premise of this thread is, I think, counterproductive.

For the heroes who have served facing the working end of a rifle, steering a rig, and cooking a meal for the servicemembers who needed it (among all the other countless tasks in the armed services), I want to say thank you. This is a foul conversation that can be better avoided in the future by ignoring the motive that created it.
 
Diesel said:
That might be the most schizophrenic analysis of simple text I have ever read. He didn't apologize. In fact, if he intended to apologize, he would have used the word "apology", "apologize", "regret", or "sorry". He's not an idiot, so he chose his words in such a way that they couldn't be misconstrued despite knowing that people would try to deliberately misconstrue them.

To take a broader view of your transparent misinterpretation, Buttigieg clearly seems to be unapologetic about his whiteness and his maleness. He can't change them any more than he can change his homosexuality. What he did was recognize the intrinsic advantages he has enjoyed during his lifetime by being white and male. That's what really grinds your gears, so just be honest. The word "privilege" is the new n-word to people who enjoy privilege but are too scared and defensive to admit it.

Lastly, your rant about a political party I've never been a part of doesn't deserve a lengthier response from me.
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Since you don't see someone who is white agreeing that he is the recipient of the most idiotic idea ever foisted on mankind called "white privilege" as being a sissy apologist, we can go no further here, because you refuse to to admit the obvious.

The idea of white privilege is divisive and is largely responsible for the anger we have today between some blacks and whites. The blacks who see thorough this like Candace Owens and other successful blacks are not angry at white people but are angry at their own race and elitist white people thinking that because they agree there is white privilege they are giving a pat on the had to poor black people. What it really says is that white people think blacks are still on some Georgian plantation and can't really cut it like a white person and they need a WHITE person to bail them out.

It is sickening.
 
Paradoxical said:
Since you don't see someone who is white agreeing that he is the recipient of the most idiotic idea ever foisted on mankind called "white privilege" as being a sissy apologist, we can go no further here, because you refuse to to admit the obvious.

The idea of white privilege is divisive and is largely responsible for the anger we have today between some blacks and whites. The blacks who see thorough this like Candace Owens and other successful blacks are not angry at white people but are angry at their own race and elitist white people thinking that because they agree there is white privilege they are giving a pat on the had to poor black people. What it really says is that white people think blacks are still on some Georgian plantation and can't really cut it like a white person and they need a WHITE person to bail them out.

It is sickening.
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What's sickening is you using the word "sissy" like this is a third grade playground and denying that white privilege exists in a culture that was created on, above all else, a foundation of white privilege.
 
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