• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trumps Slither to Authoritariansim

Mycroft said:
When talking about the President, impeachment has everything to do with breaking the law.

And no DOJ finding has ever put the President above the law.
Click to expand...

1-You are wrong. Impeachment is a political process that involves our Constitution. You can violate the Constitution without breaking the law, and you can break the law without being impeached.
2-You are wrong. How is the DoJ finding that a President can't be indicted do anything other than put the president above the law?
 
mrjurrs said:
Words matter. Say what you mean.
Click to expand...

Condor060 said:
I realize this is a feeling hurter but Trump is the President of the US and can fire anyone for any reason. Why would you think for a second he would employ anyone who tried to go around their own chain of command to rush down and make fake claims against him.
Click to expand...

mrjurrs said:
Not quite. President can't fire anyone for any reason (example-Speaker Pelosi). What fake claims has he fired anyone for?
Click to expand...


Most people would know without explanation that means he has complete authority over anyone who serves in his administration i.e. serves at the pleasure.

Nobody I have ever run across would think that to mean other elected officials.
 
mrjurrs said:
What are you basing that on? Happy thoughts? Who do you suppose #1 is in that case?
Click to expand...

That case involves a contention by a proven liar. That contention has not been tested by any court proceedings.

At this point, there is no determination that Trump has broken any law.

So...what am I basing this on? Fact and reality.
 
haymarket said:
Since you refuse to do it - here is the complete paragraph From Republicans;ican Senator Romney and not just a cherry picked phrase from a larger sentence



Romney clearly is saying that the words in the Constitution regarding high crimes and misdemeanors have been achieved in the Trump case and they demand removal from office. So he voted for the first crime the House managers presented.

You lose again. Next time try presenting a whole thought instead of a few cherry picked words - the missing ones which pains the opposite picture from the one you want to pretend is there.
Click to expand...

haymarket said:
Your definition is a flagrantly intellectually dishonest attempt to define the term using words that then fit the argument you want to make. Many constitutional scholars made it abundantly clear that your standard IS NOT THE ONE listed in the Constitution. You DO NOT need a statutory crime for the president to be impeached or convicted and removed.
Click to expand...

You failed to understand yet again.
Words matter.
Even Romney's words matter.
Apparently not to you.
"while they are not statutory crimes" are the only words that Romney said that apply to the words you said.
The words you said were that Republican Senators admit Trump broke the law. They didn't.
Laws are created by statutes and when they exist they can define statutory crimes.
In this case no Republican Senator claimed that Trump broke one of those laws.
That Trump was or was not impeached for something that wasn't a statutory crime is not relevant to your claim.
I'm not arguing that there has to be a violation of a statutory law in order to impeach. There probably doesn't.
I'm arguing that your claim that some Republicans admitted there was a violation of law was absolutely wrong.
And it continues to be absolutely wrong.
There's absolutely no question that it was wrong.
 
bubbabgone said:
You failed to understand yet again.
Words matter.
Even Romney's words matter.
Apparently not to you.
"while they are not statutory crimes" are the only words that Romney said that apply to the words you said.
The words you said were that Republican Senators admit Trump broke the law. They didn't.
Laws are created by statutes and when they exist they can define statutory crimes.
In this case no Republican Senator claimed that Trump broke one of those laws.
That Trump was or was not impeached for something that wasn't a statutory crime is not relevant to your claim.
I'm not arguing that there has to be a violation of a statutory law in order to impeach. There probably doesn't.
I'm arguing that your claim that some Republicans admitted there was a violation of law was absolutely wrong.
And it continues to be absolutely wrong.
There's absolutely no question that it was wrong.
Click to expand...

BBBBZZZZTTTT!!!! That buzzer signals that again you are being intellectually dishonest. ... this time trying to move the goal posts after I proved by point with the larger Romney quote.. Now its "one of those laws" instead of the larger issue where Trump as President can commit crimes that the average person cannot commit.

This is rather sad to see you try this at this late in the discussion. Very very sad.
 
Mycroft said:
That case involves a contention by a proven liar. That contention has not been tested by any court proceedings.

At this point, there is no determination that Trump has broken any law.

So...what am I basing this on? Fact and reality.
Click to expand...

That is not Cohen making the statement, it is a part of the legal findings from the grand jury that are part of the foundation of the case against Cohen. Try again?
 
Condor060 said:
Most people would know without explanation that means he has complete authority over anyone who serves in his administration i.e. serves at the pleasure.

Nobody I have ever run across would think that to mean other elected officials.
Click to expand...

Nobody would ever accuse you of being completely accurate in your statements either. Here's another one for you. He couldn't fire his mail carrier. That person is in the executive branch.
 
mrjurrs said:
That is not Cohen making the statement, it is a part of the legal findings from the grand jury that are part of the foundation of the case against Cohen. Try again?
Click to expand...

Wrong.

It was from the prosecutors, who based their nonsense on Cohen's words.

As I said...none of that nonsense was tested by any court proceedings.
 
mrjurrs said:
Nobody would ever accuse you of being completely accurate in your statements either. Here's another one for you. He couldn't fire his mail carrier. That person is in the executive branch.
Click to expand...

Uh, The United States Postal Service is an independent agency of the executive branch of the United States federal government. They aren't in the presidents administration.

What else ya got
 
haymarket said:
BBBBZZZZTTTT!!!! That buzzer signals that again you are being intellectually dishonest. ... this time trying to move the goal posts after I proved by point with the larger Romney quote.. Now its "one of those laws" instead of the larger issue where Trump as President can commit crimes that the average person cannot commit.

This is rather sad to see you try this at this late in the discussion. Very very sad.
Click to expand...

In our back & forth there's never been a larger issue than your false claim that Republican Senators said Trump broke a law. NOTE: a statutory crime means a law.
Your claim remains false and you could never show otherwise.
You didn't see anything from me that referenced anything other than that.
No, I think by now you realize this particular mistake of yours will not drift off into the cess pool of all your other unchallenged claims so to save face you make an unsupported claim about what I said.
That's more than a little disdainful of the truth. Kinda borders on a psychosis.
But you can still acknowledge your mistake, no one will think any less of you.
That's for sure.
 
bubbabgone said:
In our back & forth there's never been a larger issue than your false claim that Republican Senators said Trump broke a law. NOTE: a statutory crime means a law.
Click to expand...

WOW!!!!!! I get the impression you admitting you were wrong is something not at all that is going to ever happen and is far far far too much far you to admit.

Romney voted and said the President committed a crime. It might not be the crime you wanted - but he voted GUILTY and he cited a crime Trump committed

Please quote the language in the US Constitution which says exactly this ...... that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute.

Lets see it.
 
Last edited:
haymarket said:
WOW!!!!!! I get the impression you admitting you were wrong is something not at all that is going to ever happen and is far far far too much far you to admit.

Romney voted and said the President committed a crime. It might not be the crime you wanted - but he voted GUILTY and he cited a crime Trump committed

Please quote the language in the US Constitution which says exactly this ...... that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute.

Lets see it.
Click to expand...
It's about your false claim that Republican Senators said Trump broke a law. NOTE: a statutory crime means a law.
They, including Romney, never said Trump broke a law, as you know.
It has nothing to do with impeachment. That's just a connection you're making now to recover some lost dignity.
It's your own fault.
 
bubbabgone said:
It's about your false claim that Republican Senators said Trump broke a law. NOTE: a statutory crime means a law.
They, including Romney, never said Trump broke a law, as you know.
It has nothing to do with impeachment. That's just a connection you're making now to recover some lost dignity.
It's your own fault.
Click to expand...

You failed to answer my question about your claim. Again..... Please quote the language in the US Constitution which says exactly this ...... that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute.

Lets see it.
 
haymarket said:
You failed to answer my question about your claim. Again..... Please quote the language in the US Constitution which says exactly this ...... that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute.

Lets see it.
Click to expand...

Produce a quote where I said that. You can't cuz I didn't.
I can produce your quote saying Republican Senators admitted Trump broke the law. You did and they didn't.

That makes (at this time) 2 things you're lying about. You're going in the wrong direction. Getting deeper in the hole.
 
bubbabgone said:
Produce a quote where I said that. You can't cuz I didn't.
I can produce your quote saying Republican Senators admitted Trump broke the law. You did and they didn't.

That makes (at this time) 2 things you're lying about. You're going in the wrong direction. Getting deeper in the hole.
Click to expand...

Your entire argument her has been that Trump was not accused of any statutory crime. You have been beating that dead horse for days now.

Romney said Trump was guitly and voted for an article that accused Trump of the crime of abuse of power. Other Senators used different words but at least three Republicans - Murkowski, Colling & Alexander either admitted the case was proven against Trump or said he did wrong. You may not use the word MURDER when describing a crime but if you say "he wrongly killed him" its the same thing.

Here - yet again - is Romney explaining his vote

This verdict is ours to render. The people will judge us for how well and faithfully we fulfilled our duty. The grave question the Constitution tasks senators to answer is whether the President committed an act so extreme and egregious that it rises to the level of a “high crime and misdemeanor.”

Yes, he did.

The President asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

The President withheld vital military funds from that government to press it to do so.

The President delayed funds for an American ally at war with Russian invaders.

The President’s purpose was personal and political.

Accordingly, the President is guilty of an appalling abuse of the public trust.
Click to expand...


This is from your post 455

Even Romney's words matter.
Apparently not to you.
"while they are not statutory crimes" are the only words that Romney said that apply to the words you said.
The words you said were that Republican Senators admit Trump broke the law. They didn't.
Laws are created by statutes and when they exist they can define statutory crimes.
In this case no Republican Senator claimed that Trump broke one of those laws.
Click to expand...

I already reproduced words saying Trump committed a crime and the full paragraph from which you cherry picked on clause in a much larger context.

I do not think you would know a true lie if it introduced itself to you as you cannot even see your own mistakes.
 
Last edited:
haymarket said:
You failed to answer my question about your claim. Again..... Please quote the language in the US Constitution which says exactly this ...... that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute.

Lets see it.
Click to expand...

bubbabgone said:
Produce a quote where I said that. You can't cuz I didn't.
I can produce your quote saying Republican Senators admitted Trump broke the law. You did and they didn't.

That makes (at this time) 2 things you're lying about. You're going in the wrong direction. Getting deeper in the hole.
Click to expand...

haymarket said:
Your entire argument her has been that Trump was not accused of any statutory crime. You have been beating that dead horse for days now.

Romney said Trump was guitly and voted for an article that accused Trump of the crime of abuse of power. Other Senators used different words but at least three Republicans - Murkowski, Colling & Alexander either admitted the case was proven against Trump or said he did wrong. You may not use the word MURDER when describing a crime but if you say "he wrongly killed him" its the same thing.

Here - yet again - is Romney explaining his vote




This is from your post 455



I already reproduced words saying Trump committed a crime and the full paragraph from which you cherry picked on clause in a much larger context.

I do not think you would know a true lie if it introduced itself to you as you cannot even see your own mistakes.
Click to expand...


Produce the quote where I said that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute.
You said Republican Senators admitted Trump broke the law ... but they didn't say it.

Still waiting ... tick tock brother. Your lies won't defend themselves.
 
bubbabgone said:
Produce the quote where I said that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute.
You said Republican Senators admitted Trump broke the law ... but they didn't say it.

Still waiting ... tick tock brother. Your lies won't defend themselves.
Click to expand...

easy -

You have posted countless versions of this post

Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
"while they’re not statutory crimes" - Mitt Romney
Apparently you don't know what a statutory crime is.
Look it up.
Romney said there weren't any.
Click to expand...

If it is not your position that a president must commit a violation of statutory law, why then have you been fixated with it to the point of obsession?

Romney clearly said the President was guilty of a crime. That proves you wrong.
 
haymarket said:
easy -

You have posted countless versions of this post



If it is not your position that a president must commit a violation of statutory law, why then have you been fixated with it to the point of obsession?

Romney clearly said the President was guilty of a crime. That proves you wrong.
Click to expand...

You're running away again. A quote needs to have quotation marks around it and be accurate in order to show it was actually said or written.
I'm beginning to think English is not your first language. You shouldn't be this confused this long.

1) Produce the quote where I said that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute.

2) You said Republican Senators admitted Trump broke the law ... but they didn't say it. Produce their quotes that said Trump broke the law. The law.
Remember the definition:
"What is STATUTORY CRIME?
a crime that is specified law that is different from an offense that has not been declared a criminal offense."
What law did Romney say Trump broke?
 
bubbabgone said:
You're running away again. A quote needs to have quotation marks around it and be accurate in order to show it was actually said or written.
Click to expand...

Unless one tells you what it is from and from who which has been done countless times in this exchange. If you do not know it comes from Romney by this point, it is hopeless. And all the quotation marks in the world is not going to change you.

1) Produce the quote where I said that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute.
Click to expand...

So you DO NOT think there must be a statutory violation to impeach. Great. You should have said that days ago and we would have saved a lot of time.

You have been very very confusing since you started in on this obsession with statutory law you have made it the centerpiece of your posts

164
180
190
213
241
246
260
306
319
321
326
344
346
351
368
370
373
379
380
398
403
407
410
428
430
432
434
446
447
455
461
463

That is at least 33 times you have made STATUTORY LAW the focus of your posts. What was the point then in bringing it up if I was dead wrong and you are not saying there must be a violation of statutory law to impeach?

What law did Romney say Trump broke?
Click to expand...

I have provided the remarks from Senator Romney many times already. He makes it very clear that Trump is guilty and has abused his power and the public trust.

Here it is again from Senator Romney and why he voted GUILTY

This verdict is ours to render. The people will judge us for how well and faithfully we fulfilled our duty. The grave question the Constitution tasks senators to answer is whether the President committed an act so extreme and egregious that it rises to the level of a “high crime and misdemeanor.”

Yes, he did.

The President asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

The President withheld vital military funds from that government to press it to do so.

The President delayed funds for an American ally at war with Russian invaders.

The President’s purpose was personal and political.

Accordingly, the President is guilty of an appalling abuse of the public trust.
Click to expand...

Feel free to put in your own quotation marks since I have repeatedly identified both the speaker and the source.
 
haymarket said:
Unless one tells you what it is from and from who which has been done countless times in this exchange. If you do not know it comes from Romney by this point, it is hopeless. And all the quotation marks in the world is not going to change you.



So you DO NOT think there must be a statutory violation to impeach. Great. You should have said that days ago and we would have saved a lot of time.

You have been very very confusing since you started in on this obsession with statutory law you have made it the centerpiece of your posts

164
180
190
213
241
246
260
306
319
321
326
344
346
351
368
370
373
379
380
398
403
407
410
428
430
432
434
446
447
455
461
463

That is at least 33 times you have made STATUTORY LAW the focus of your posts. What was the point then in bringing it up if I was dead wrong and you are not saying there must be a violation of statutory law to impeach?



I have provided the remarks from Senator Romney many times already. He makes it very clear that Trump is guilty and has abused his power and the public trust.

Here it is again from Senator Romney and why he voted GUILTY



Feel free to put in your own quotation marks since I have repeatedly identified both the speaker and the source.
Click to expand...

1) So you can't produce a quote where I said that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute but you can produce numbers from posts that don't have the quote. I guess that's progress.
2) What is the Law Romney said Trump broke? The Law. I didn't ask for the actions Romney didn't approve of, or that he thought were unwise. I asked for the Law he said was broken.
 
bubbabgone said:
1) So you can't produce a quote where I said that a President must break a statutory crime to be impeached and that the law that the president broke must be written into statute but you can produce numbers from posts that don't have the quote. I guess that's progress.
2) What is the Law Romney said Trump broke? The Law. I didn't ask for the actions Romney didn't approve of, or that he thought were unwise. I asked for the Law he said was broken.
Click to expand...

What other conclusion should any rational person come to after you made STATUTORY LAW the focus of at least 33 posts in recent days?

Especially when I and others carefully explained to you that the crimes of Trump were in a different class special to the President.

So go ahead, tell me why the fixation and obsession with at least 33 mentions of STATUTORY LAW if it did not play a key role in the discussion of Trumps impeachment?

As to the law itself that Romney said Trump violated it was ABUSE OF POWER - the details of which in the complete Article I is attached in this article.

Read the Articles of Impeachment Against President Trump - The New York Times
 
haymarket said:
What other conclusion should any rational person come to after you made STATUTORY LAW the focus of at least 33 posts in recent days?
Click to expand...
A rational person would have concluded differently.


Especially when I and others carefully explained to you that the crimes of Trump were in a different class special to the President.

So go ahead, tell me why the fixation and obsession with at least 33 mentions of STATUTORY LAW if it did not play a key role in the discussion of Trumps impeachment?

As to the law itself that Romney said Trump violated it was ABUSE OF POWER - the details of which in the complete Article I is attached in this article.

Read the Articles of Impeachment Against President Trump - The New York Times
Click to expand...

Article 1 didn't mention a Law.
I asked you what Law was broken.
What's the citation?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom