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Will Vindman face courts martial?

Robertinfremont

Robertinfremont

Photo of me taken in the Army 1963
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Saddam Hussein would have shot Vindman to death on the spot. He gunned down his share of Army officers.

So my question is will Vindman face Courts Martial?

I prefer that only actual military types, who know the UCMJ Code of Justice reply. Still if you promise that you did try hard to get educated, please also join this group discussion

So to help the topic out, Officers take an oath or office to be loyal to the commanders above them. It also includes the president. The only escape hatche is following lawful orders.

Vindman had no orders to defy Trump. Vindman admitted he know of no law that Trump broke.

So he attempted to create a space for him to insult Trump plus not follow orders.


But your case is? Study the current Uniform Code of Military Justice where you will find the laws Vindman must obey by current written laws.
 
Robertinfremont said:
Saddam Hussein would have shot Vindman to death on the spot. He gunned down his share of Army officers. So my question is will Vindman face Courts Martial? I prefer that only actual military types, who know the UCMJ Code of Justice reply. Still if you promise that you did try hard to get educated, please also join this group discussion So to help the topic out, Officers take an oath or office to be loyal to the commanders above them. It also includes the president. The only escape hatche is following lawful orders. Vindman had no orders to defy Trump. Vindman admitted he know of no law that Trump broke. So he attempted to create a space for him to insult Trump plus not follow orders. But your case is? Study the current Uniform Code of Military Justice where you will find the laws Vindman must obey by current written laws.
Click to expand...

An officer cannot serve but one master faithfully. Vindman was testifying before Congress, and told the truth as he saw it. There will not even be an Article 15 hearing much less and Article 32 hearing to see if he committed acted prejudicial to the good order and discipline of the service.
 
Robertinfremont said:
Saddam Hussein would have shot Vindman to death on the spot. He gunned down his share of Army officers.

So my question is will Vindman face Courts Martial?

I prefer that only actual military types, who know the UCMJ Code of Justice reply. Still if you promise that you did try hard to get educated, please also join this group discussion

So to help the topic out, Officers take an oath or office to be loyal to the commanders above them. It also includes the president. The only escape hatche is following lawful orders.

Vindman had no orders to defy Trump. Vindman admitted he know of no law that Trump broke.

So he attempted to create a space for him to insult Trump plus not follow orders.


But your case is? Study the current Uniform Code of Military Justice where you will find the laws Vindman must obey by current written laws.
Click to expand...

Nope, he is going to the Pentagon, from what I heard is war college, which is not punishment nor will there be any punishment, as it should be.
 
jamesbyoung said:
An officer cannot serve but one master faithfully. Vindman was testifying before Congress, and told the truth as he saw it. There will not even be an Article 15 hearing much less and Article 32 hearing to see if he committed acted prejudicial to the good order and discipline of the service.
Click to expand...

His master is the Constitution and the Nation, Period
 
Casper said:
His master is the Constitution and the Nation, Period
Click to expand...
That is not how the UCMJ sees it in terms of service.

I had an officer who was caught between his duties to the Brigade Cdr and to the JAG office. The Bde Cdr told the Chief of Staff that the officer's duty was to him before the JAG. The Chief of Staff.

Vindman is in no danger of a court-martial.
 
Robertinfremont said:
Saddam Hussein would have shot Vindman to death on the spot. He gunned down his share of Army officers.
So my question is will Vindman face Courts Martial?
I prefer that only actual military types, who know the UCMJ Code of Justice reply. Still if you promise that you did try hard to get educated, please also join this group discussion
So to help the topic out, Officers take an oath or office to be loyal to the commanders above them. It also includes the president. The only escape hatche is following lawful orders.
Vindman had no orders to defy Trump. Vindman admitted he know of no law that Trump broke.
So he attempted to create a space for him to insult Trump plus not follow orders.
But your case is? Study the current Uniform Code of Military Justice where you will find the laws Vindman must obey by current written laws.
Click to expand...


"Will Vindman face courts martial?"

Unfortunately no; however, I'd be fine with him being demoted to private ... or discharged for being fat.
 
Robertinfremont said:
Saddam Hussein would have shot Vindman to death on the spot. He gunned down his share of Army officers.
So my question is will Vindman face Courts Martial?
I prefer that only actual military types, who know the UCMJ Code of Justice reply. Still if you promise that you did try hard to get educated, please also join this group discussion
So to help the topic out, Officers take an oath or office to be loyal to the commanders above them. It also includes the president. The only escape hatche is following lawful orders.
Vindman had no orders to defy Trump. Vindman admitted he know of no law that Trump broke.
So he attempted to create a space for him to insult Trump plus not follow orders.
But your case is? Study the current Uniform Code of Military Justice where you will find the laws Vindman must obey by current written laws.
Click to expand...

He was called to testify before Congress. He did. He told the truth as far as anyone can tell.

The oath that we military officers take says: "I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

In his eyes, he was supporting and defending the Constitution against someone who was violating their own oath of office to the detriment of the nation.
 
Robertinfremont said:
Saddam Hussein would have shot Vindman to death on the spot. He gunned down his share of Army officers.

So my question is will Vindman face Courts Martial?

I prefer that only actual military types, who know the UCMJ Code of Justice reply. Still if you promise that you did try hard to get educated, please also join this group discussion

So to help the topic out, Officers take an oath or office to be loyal to the commanders above them. It also includes the president. The only escape hatche is following lawful orders.

Vindman had no orders to defy Trump. Vindman admitted he know of no law that Trump broke.

So he attempted to create a space for him to insult Trump plus not follow orders.


But your case is? Study the current Uniform Code of Military Justice where you will find the laws Vindman must obey by current written laws.
Click to expand...

How is what Saddam Hussein would do relevant in any way shape or form? The malignant narcissist is showing his true vindictive nature, what a scumbag.
 
a Mafia is in our White House. i wouldn't be surprise if they ruined him, his family and his parents.
 
jamesbyoung said:
That is not how the UCMJ sees it in terms of service.

I had an officer who was caught between his duties to the Brigade Cdr and to the JAG office. The Bde Cdr told the Chief of Staff that the officer's duty was to him before the JAG. The Chief of Staff.

Vindman is in no danger of a court-martial.
Click to expand...

No, he's not, he was brought to the House per the law and did his duty and answered the questions asked truthfully, the UCMJ can't touch him and trump cannot really do anything, he would be crossing the line legally to do so now.
 
Robertinfremont said:
Saddam Hussein would have shot Vindman to death on the spot. He gunned down his share of Army officers.

So my question is will Vindman face Courts Martial?

I prefer that only actual military types, who know the UCMJ Code of Justice reply. Still if you promise that you did try hard to get educated, please also join this group discussion

So to help the topic out, Officers take an oath or office to be loyal to the commanders above them. It also includes the president. The only escape hatche is following lawful orders.

Vindman had no orders to defy Trump. Vindman admitted he know of no law that Trump broke.

So he attempted to create a space for him to insult Trump plus not follow orders.


But your case is? Study the current Uniform Code of Military Justice where you will find the laws Vindman must obey by current written laws.
Click to expand...

First, no. Vindman is in no danger of court martial as long as he testified truthfully.

Secondly, there is no loyalty oath. What it actually says is this:

and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Click to expand...
 
This might not be a bad time to remember what the experience some of our military leaders have had with regard to Commander in Chief Bone Spurs:

General Mattis finally resigned in disgust after Putin's pal decided to cut and run on our Kurdish allies.

Rear Admiral Collin Green resigned due to Trump undermining military discipline, something Trump has no clue of.

Admiral McRaven resigned when Trump revoked former CIA director John Brennan's security clearance because Brennan dared to criticize him. Here's his resignation letter:

Dear Mr. President:
Former CIA director John Brennan, whose security clearance you revoked on Wednesday, is one of the finest public servants I have ever known. Few Americans have done more to protect this country than John. He is a man of unparalleled integrity, whose honesty and character have never been in question, except by those who don’t know him.

Therefore, I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency.

Like most Americans, I had hoped that when you became president, you would rise to the occasion and become the leader this great nation needs.

A good leader tries to embody the best qualities of his or her organization. A good leader sets the example for others to follow. A good leader always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself.

Your leadership, however, has shown little of these qualities. Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.

If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be.​
 
Redress said:
First, no. Vindman is in no danger of court martial as long as he testified truthfully.

Secondly, there is no loyalty oath. What it actually says is this:
Click to expand...

Redress, you are quoting the oath for enlisted folks. The officer's oath is to the Constitution alone.
 
jpn said:
This might not be a bad time to remember what the experience some of our military leaders have had with regard to Commander in Chief Bone Spurs:

General Mattis finally resigned in disgust after Putin's pal decided to cut and run on our Kurdish allies.

Rear Admiral Collin Green resigned due to Trump undermining military discipline, something Trump has no clue of.

Admiral McRaven resigned when Trump revoked former CIA director John Brennan's security clearance because Brennan dared to criticize him. Here's his resignation letter:
Dear Mr. President:
Former CIA director John Brennan, whose security clearance you revoked on Wednesday, is one of the finest public servants I have ever known. Few Americans have done more to protect this country than John. He is a man of unparalleled integrity, whose honesty and character have never been in question, except by those who don’t know him.

Therefore, I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency.

Like most Americans, I had hoped that when you became president, you would rise to the occasion and become the leader this great nation needs.

A good leader tries to embody the best qualities of his or her organization. A good leader sets the example for others to follow. A good leader always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself.

Your leadership, however, has shown little of these qualities. Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.

If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be.​
Click to expand...
The Democratic Party is in their own McCarthy era on steroids!
 
joko104 said:
The Democratic Party is in their own McCarthy era on steroids!
Click to expand...

As usual you just make drive-by accusations with no supporting links or relevant examples. Kind of McCarthyish, you might say. Have a list in your pocket, do you? :wink:

p.s., thanks for re-posting my post. I think it bears repeating too!
 
Robertinfremont said:
Saddam Hussein would have shot Vindman to death on the spot. He gunned down his share of Army officers.

So my question is will Vindman face Courts Martial?

I prefer that only actual military types, who know the UCMJ Code of Justice reply. Still if you promise that you did try hard to get educated, please also join this group discussion

So to help the topic out, Officers take an oath or office to be loyal to the commanders above them. It also includes the president. The only escape hatche is following lawful orders.

Vindman had no orders to defy Trump. Vindman admitted he know of no law that Trump broke.

So he attempted to create a space for him to insult Trump plus not follow orders.


But your case is? Study the current Uniform Code of Military Justice where you will find the laws Vindman must obey by current written laws.
Click to expand...

He won't face a court martial, but his military career is toast. I wouldn't be surprised if his scheduled attendance to the War College gets changed. The fact is, he made a political calculation and he failed. That kind of thing will not be looked upon kindly by his superiors.

I predict he and his brother will resign their commissions.
 
Mycroft said:
He won't face a court martial, but his military career is toast. I wouldn't be surprised if his scheduled attendance to the War College gets changed. The fact is, he made a political calculation and he failed. That kind of thing will not be looked upon kindly by his superiors.
I predict he and his brother will resign their commissions.
Click to expand...

Maybe he saw something wrong and had the guts to do something about it, unlike the spineless goons in the Senate. If his testifying truthfully before Congress at their invitation hurts his military career, then that says something is very wrong in our military.

I retired as a Commander (O-5). Most officers I served with leaned conservative, and a few were more hard right. Some were center left, and a few were more hard left. Most were serious and conscientious and honest. Not all.

What happens to Vindman's career will probably be determined by the luck of the draw--is his boss going to be fair and high-minded, or narrow and vindictive.

What bothers me most is that Trump went after his brother, too. Going after the families? That's just sick.
 
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Robertinfremont said:
Saddam Hussein would have shot Vindman to death on the spot. He gunned down his share of Army officers.

So my question is will Vindman face Courts Martial?

I prefer that only actual military types, who know the UCMJ Code of Justice reply. Still if you promise that you did try hard to get educated, please also join this group discussion

So to help the topic out, Officers take an oath or office to be loyal to the commanders above them. It also includes the president. The only escape hatche is following lawful orders.

Vindman had no orders to defy Trump. Vindman admitted he know of no law that Trump broke.

So he attempted to create a space for him to insult Trump plus not follow orders.


But your case is? Study the current Uniform Code of Military Justice where you will find the laws Vindman must obey by current written laws.
Click to expand...

Of course he will. The new normal in government is to get your enemies regardless of the law. The Senate has made clear that Trump can basically do what he wants.

You're right. Saddam would have shot him. Do you find that admirable?
 
Robertinfremont said:
Saddam Hussein would have shot Vindman to death on the spot. He gunned down his share of Army officers.

So my question is will Vindman face Courts Martial?

I prefer that only actual military types, who know the UCMJ Code of Justice reply. Still if you promise that you did try hard to get educated, please also join this group discussion

So to help the topic out, Officers take an oath or office to be loyal to the commanders above them. It also includes the president. The only escape hatche is following lawful orders.

Vindman had no orders to defy Trump. Vindman admitted he know of no law that Trump broke.

So he attempted to create a space for him to insult Trump plus not follow orders.


But your case is? Study the current Uniform Code of Military Justice where you will find the laws Vindman must obey by current written laws.
Click to expand...

No. In fact, he is going to the War College so he will likely get a promotion to Colonel.

In your face!
 
Mycroft said:
He won't face a court martial, but his military career is toast. I wouldn't be surprised if his scheduled attendance to the War College gets changed. The fact is, he made a political calculation and he failed. That kind of thing will not be looked upon kindly by his superiors.

I predict he and his brother will resign their commissions.
Click to expand...

I predict you will be be as wrong as you typically are.

(Near 100%?)
 
Mycroft said:
He won't face a court martial, but his military career is toast. I wouldn't be surprised if his scheduled attendance to the War College gets changed. The fact is, he made a political calculation and he failed. That kind of thing will not be looked upon kindly by his superiors.

I predict he and his brother will resign their commissions.
Click to expand...

While I don't know much about the twin brother LTC and lawyer or the other brother who's an Army officer, I see LTC Vindman retiring as a 2-star down the road. It's the track he's been put on by the Army based on the total assessment and evaluation of him in his career to date and projecting reasonably forward. Very reasonably forward and Vindman is well aware of it since his promotion to LTC several years ago.

If Trump tries to act further against Vindman I'd predict Pentagon will declare war. The guy's been assigned to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs since 2015 and only detailed to the WH NSC by the CJCS. Vindman remains presently assigned to the Office of the CJCS. Esper would probably be the first guy out of the trenches to lead the charge. Esper's WP classmate Pompeo would have to pull his head out of where the sun don't shine so I'm not sure about him however. Still Pompeo did speak out against bombing Iran cultural sites while Trump was hollering he'd do it in a New York minute.
 
Oath of Commissioned Officers - Army Values

Oath of Commissioned Officers
I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. (Title 5 U.S. Code 3331, an individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services)
Click to expand...
 
jamesbyoung said:
An officer cannot serve but one master faithfully. Vindman was testifying before Congress, and told the truth as he saw it. There will not even be an Article 15 hearing much less and Article 32 hearing to see if he committed acted prejudicial to the good order and discipline of the service.
Click to expand...

I know a lot about this topic. Trump was the legally elected master.

I however am seeking comments. So thank you for your commentary.

Who got Vindman to betray his own CIC?

We can reel up Vindman telling Shifty Schiff and his mob that Trump did not comment crimes.
 
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