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What happens to the 2020 election if Bolton books says Trump did it all?

cabse5 said:
I recognize your hatred for Trump and can't help you with your problem.
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Feel free to pull up any post(s) in which I've stated I hate Trump. I can't help you with that, as there is no such post(s). But feel free to peruse my posting history, should you so choose.
 
Logician Man said:
Feel free to pull up any post(s) in which I've stated I hate Trump. I can't help you with that, as there is no such post(s). But feel free to peruse my posting history, should you so choose.
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How can you possibly think Trump is a follower of Putin?
 
cabse5 said:
How can you possibly think Trump is a follower of Putin?
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Go pull up the Helsinki Press Conference, and watch/listen to it thoroughly. Or if you like, present it here, and we can go through it together. your call.
 
independentusa said:
Bolton's book is coming out soon and it may point to Trump having done everything that the Dems are now saying he should be removed for office for doing. So how do you think such a book, and direcctly from a man who should know, would effect not only Trump's reelection, but those GOP Senators who voted against allowing Bolton and others to testify? DO you think it would have any effect or are Trump followers so tied to Trump that it would not damage his or others reelcetion chances?
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First of all, Bolton is a Republican so I doubt he would do anything that would give the election to the Democrats. Second, even if he may want to get rich selling his book, he wouldn't be the first one to lie to make millions of dollars. Just because a book says something doesn't mean that something is the truth.
 
chuckiechan said:
Not that many people care.
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Yeah you're unfortunately right. People stopped caring about any facts a long time ago. It doesn't matter anymore what facts or evidence comes out.

I hope the people walking around 5th Ave are ready for a shootout by the president, with videos of it happening live being dismissed as fake liberal MSM nooz.
 
Sadly, this will be the end of democratic elections, something the right wing has wanted, all along.
 
independentusa said:
Bolton's book is coming out soon and it may point to Trump having done everything that the Dems are now saying he should be removed for office for doing. So how do you think such a book, and direcctly from a man who should know, would effect not only Trump's reelection, but those GOP Senators who voted against allowing Bolton and others to testify? DO you think it would have any effect or are Trump followers so tied to Trump that it would not damage his or others reelcetion chances?
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I don't think that it will matter any. The Trumpeteer cultists will back Trump through anything, the GOP-Partisans will brand protect til he's gone (well, they'll brand protect past that as well, but they won't be critical of Trump til he's gone). I don't think it will really sway anything, unfortunately.
 
Ikari said:
I don't think that it will matter any. The Trumpeteer cultists will back Trump through anything, the GOP-Partisans will brand protect til he's gone (well, they'll brand protect past that as well, but they won't be critical of Trump til he's gone). I don't think it will really sway anything, unfortunately.
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It may not; but I can tell you this; this is the end of our democracy.

This is literally the end.

If you saw Braun on MSNBC being interviewed, his defense of this is basically "people are mad they wanted him out."

Sorry dude, that doesn't mean you allow this behavior. You need to tell your constituency to knock it the **** off.

Sad.
 
independentusa said:
Bolton's book is coming out soon and it may point to Trump having done everything that the Dems are now saying he should be removed for office for doing. So how do you think such a book, and direcctly from a man who should know, would effect not only Trump's reelection, but those GOP Senators who voted against allowing Bolton and others to testify? DO you think it would have any effect or are Trump followers so tied to Trump that it would not damage his or others reelcetion chances?
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Let's take a moment to recognize how bad trump is at the crimes.

If there's one thing a criminal president should be able to do, it's to get a few conspirators to remain loyal and keep the secrets of the crimes from investigators.

Nixon did well; he paid off 'the plumbers', and had a lot of loyalty from many aides, who even were fired by him and went to prison for him for lying to protect him. He had one key aide do the right thing, John Dean, but Dean was widely attacked as a liar until the tapes proved who the liars were.

Reagan did, too. Ten top officials were charged for the crimes, yet they continued to protect Reagan. The closest it seemed we could get to a truthteller was Oliver North's secretary, Fawn Hall. The special investigator still found evidence on officials with hard work, but that was killed by 'un-indicted conspirator' George H. W. Bush giving them all pardons.

Even when it's not criminal, presidents can get loyalty; consider JFK and aides such as Ted Sorensen, Ken O'Donnell, Dave Powers and others. They can 'earn' loyalty and discretion, sometime too much.

Then you get to trump. Ghostwriter: told all about trump. Michael Cohen, 'personal fixer lawyer': told all about trump. Lev Parnas, one of new fixer's key aides, telling all about trump. John Bolton, telling a lot, and close to telling more, about trump. Rex Tillerson, generals, Jeff Sessions, 'Anonymous', and others appearing to turn on and leak about trump. He's even incompetent at crime.
 
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Obscurity said:
It may not; but I can tell you this; this is the end of our democracy.

This is literally the end.

If you saw Braun on MSNBC being interviewed, his defense of this is basically "people are mad they wanted him out."

Sorry dude, that doesn't mean you allow this behavior. You need to tell your constituency to knock it the **** off.

Sad.
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I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to say that it's the end of our democracy. I think the Republic is bigger than Trump. It does open the door for some bigger corruption down the line, though, and I do think that this overall air of partisanship we've been under needs to end if we want to get a handle on it. I don't think it necessarily means doom and gloom, but it does require that we start acting like adults finally. That may end up being the "end of our democracy". I don't think Trump caused any of this, I think Trump is a symptom of the bigger problem. Our emotionalized, irrational, hyper-partisanship.
 
Moderate Right said:
First of all, Bolton is a Republican so I doubt he would do anything that would give the election to the Democrats. Second, even if he may want to get rich selling his book, he wouldn't be the first one to lie to make millions of dollars. Just because a book says something doesn't mean that something is the truth.
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NO, but it brings doubt to all that Trump has said for his reason for holding the money which was against the law as the GAO has said. Se we need other witnesses to come forth so we find out if what Bolton is saying is the truth or if he is just trying to sell books.
 
Obscurity said:
Sadly, this will be the end of democratic elections, something the right wing has wanted, all along.
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You're right, it's not often said enough, the right, the plutocrats, are ultimately the enemies of democracy; they just have to hide that, and limit themselves to corrupting it, until they can remove it. "You can have democracy, or you can have great concentration of wealth, but you cannot have both." - Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis
 
independentusa said:
NO, but it brings doubt to all that Trump has said for his reason for holding the money which was against the law as the GAO has said. Se we need other witnesses to come forth so we find out if what Bolton is saying is the truth or if he is just trying to sell books.
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Bolton's friends and enemies alike don't think he would lie about this against trump to sell books, or even as revenge against trump. He might be a very evil figure, but that hasn't been how he's evil; there's a reason he called trump's crime a 'drug deal' instead of going along with it fully like lackies such as Pompeo and Mulvaney. Of course all the evidence shows one story, also.
 
Ikari said:
I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to say that it's the end of our democracy. I think the Republic is bigger than Trump. It does open the door for some bigger corruption down the line, though, and I do think that this overall air of partisanship we've been under needs to end if we want to get a handle on it. I don't think it necessarily means doom and gloom, but it does require that we start acting like adults finally. That may end up being the "end of our democracy". I don't think Trump caused any of this, I think Trump is a symptom of the bigger problem. Our emotionalized, irrational, hyper-partisanship.
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Wrong.

President will now be able to withhold aid for a plethora of reasons. What will happen when the potus asks for investigations into senators of either party they disagree with? Or governors?

It's the end of democracy. It ends legitimacy of our elections. There will be a perpetual cloud of doubt over every election, period.

This is the stuff of authoritarian nightmares that cannot be enabled.
 
ataraxia said:
I hope the people walking around 5th Ave are ready for a shootout by the president, with videos of it happening live being dismissed as fake liberal MSM nooz.
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Actually, all his officials would say it's a lie, fake news, and then trump would give an interview and say he did it and it was fun, and not lose any of his cult.
 
Obscurity said:
Wrong.

President will now be able to withhold aid for a plethora of reasons. What will happen when the potus asks for investigations into senators of either party they disagree with? Or governors?

It's the end of democracy. It ends legitimacy of our elections. There will be a perpetual cloud of doubt over every election, period.

This is the stuff of authoritarian nightmares that cannot be enabled.
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I think it's more fixable than that.

What's almost impossible to fix is the corruption of our elections by powerful, wealthy interests, who have taken over the Supreme Court to make their corrupting elections a constitutional right that can't be touched by the people or the government even if a better government is elected.
 
Craig234 said:
I think it's more fixable than that.

What's almost impossible to fix is the corruption of our elections by powerful, wealthy interests, who have taken over the Supreme Court to make their corrupting elections a constitutional right that can't be touched by the people or the government even if a better government is elected.
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It's not fixable. And that's where folks like you empower the arguments of conservatives. This is not fixable, not without legislation, and before that? The damage will already be DONE.

This is catastrophic. THis is the sort of **** military juntas do.
 
Obscurity said:
It's not fixable. And that's where folks like you empower the arguments of conservatives. This is not fixable, not without legislation, and before that? The damage will already be DONE.

This is catastrophic. THis is the sort of **** military juntas do.
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I disagree, and don't think I'm empowering any wrongdoing (neither are you, even if you're incorrect).

America has had a lot of wrongs; they didn't lock those wrongs into being repeated ever after. It's the systemic problem of money being allowed to corrupt politics that's the next to impossible thing to fix - and I'd argue a big part of why trump is able to get away with what he has. There's a reason Republican politicians vote corruptly and it's not a love for trump in many if any cases.
 
Craig234 said:
I disagree, and don't think I'm empowering any wrongdoing (neither are you, even if you're incorrect).

America has had a lot of wrongs; they didn't lock those wrongs into being repeated ever after. It's the systemic problem of money being allowed to corrupt politics that's the next to impossible thing to fix - and I'd argue a big part of why trump is able to get away with what he has. There's a reason Republican politicians vote corruptly and it's not a love for trump in many if any cases.
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Trump doing this means no future election is going to be unquestionable. It's setting a cloud over the entire 2020 election. Nothing at all anyone says if this is allowed will convince me any election going forward is legitimate.
 
independentusa said:
NO, but it brings doubt to all that Trump has said for his reason for holding the money which was against the law as the GAO has said. Se we need other witnesses to come forth so we find out if what Bolton is saying is the truth or if he is just trying to sell books.
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Democrats have tried every trick in the book during this impeachment trial (and even before). They have wanted additional witnesses then, low and behold, from out of nowhere comes an anonymous unnamed source claiming that Trump said this stuff to Bolton, right at the exact time that Democrats are hammering for additional witness testimony. To think that that just happens to be a well timed coincidence is crazy - immediately right after an erroneous other source claims that Republicans were pressuring moderates and had their "head on a pike". I swear, Democrats are the sleeziest low lifes I have ever seen and abuse their power daily.
 
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