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Is Trump Guilty Or Not?

rocket88 said:
Not on all cases, but if you conspire to rob a bank, conspire to assassinate someone....or if you conspire to get somethong from a foreign government to help you in an election.
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He didn't conspire to withhold the money. He asked the leader for a favor to look into corruption. The money was not withheld with the express message to the leader that he had to do something for him. I have talked to lawyers and even the IRS about what I can or cannot do legally. That is not conspiring. I have even had the IRS tell me that what I wanted to deduct as a business expense would have to be decided by my auditor after I took the deduction. The government makes up the rules as they go. Fact.
 
CherubRam said:
Is Trump Guilty Or Not?

The Democratic Party says that Trump is guilty because he thought to commit a crime.

What is your opinion?
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Dems did not say that.
 
CherubRam said:
To wordy. What is the bottom line?
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He Abused his power.

He committed Obstruction Of Congress.


Dems did not accuse trump of thinking about crime.

That is the bottom line.
 
Mycroft said:
Your premise is incorrect.



So...the question should be this: Do you think Trump is guilty or not guilty of an accusation that is based on a lie?
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Speaking of questionable premises, you so-called Question has an assumed premise.


Prove and/or demonstrate some solid path of logic sufficient to reach a meeting of mind with the audience you put the question to, then.....


and only then, can you ask such a question.


Moreover, even if proved the premise, at that point it because a self-defeating question, because no one can be rendered guilty of a false accusation, now can they, hmmmm?

Therefore, it seems you are capable of framing trick questions, or at least questions you think are trick questions.
 
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PIPEWRENCH said:
He didn't conspire to withhold the money. He asked the leader for a favor to look into corruption. The money was not withheld with the express message to the leader that he had to do something for him. I have talked to lawyers and even the IRS about what I can or cannot do legally. That is not conspiring. I have even had the IRS tell me that what I wanted to deduct as a business expense would have to be decided by my auditor after I took the deduction. The government makes up the rules as they go. Fact.
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You have not been following this case. If you are still all the way back at Trump asked a foreign head of government to look into Corruption you are just far behind.

In the first place, both Bidens are US citizens. If Trump thought there was something to look into you don't turn Rudy, his goon squad and the Three Amigos loose in a foreign country. You go to your US Agencies of government.

Bill Barr for his immediately released a statement after the July 25th call telling us that he had no idea what Trump was talking about with regard to name checking him and that DOJ had no involvement. So SORYY....won't fly.
 
CherubRam said:
Is Trump Guilty Or Not?

The Democratic Party says that Trump is guilty because he thought to commit a crime. The Republican Party says that even if the Democrats accusations are true, Trump did not commit a crime because he did not follow through.

What is your opinion?
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The democrats have been doing political gamesmanship since Trump was elected. This ENTIRE thing is ALL about swaying votes.....they are the biggest cheaters in history. Total losers with a big L.
 
OscarLevant said:
Speaking of questionable premises, you so-called Question has an assumed premise.
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Nope. Not an assumed premise on my part.

It's a fact that the House Dems have no factual evidence that Trump is doing anything for political purposes. Heck, I have asked fellow forum members over and over to provide any factual evidence showing Trump doing something for political purposes...none has been forthcoming. There simply is none. Perhaps YOU have some, OscarLevant?

Throughout the ages, people have been found guilty of a false premise. The Salem Witch Trials comes to mind. As in that example, the only thing required to render the accused guilty was the concerted, dishonest effort to convince the public. This is the same effort that the House Dems are making right now.
 
Well dick and jr got.off scott free.for war crimes (torture) and outing a CIA agent along with taking the country to war on lies and getting a bunch of our young people maimed and killed for nothing

Trump is just as guilty but he will walk

There is no accountability for people at.that level.
 
jnug said:
There is no need to prove a Federal Code Statutory Crime to Impeach a President. In fact, the only Federal Code Statutory Crime that a President could commit that MIGHT with emphasis on MIGHT commit that would be worse than the Constitutional Crimes he is charged with would be murder.
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My point is that the crimes cited in the Constitution do not appear in the Articles of Impeachment conjured by the House of Lunatics.

The clear direction in the Constitution is that if the sitting president does commit CRIMES, then the House has this tool to remove him. This president committed no crime(s) so they're just pleasuring themselves at our expense to our horror.

The Framers hoped that the Representatives in the House would be honest and ethical. They did, however, foresee Shifty as Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers.

When the House of Representatives is controlled by lying, swindling politicians who actually want to end our election process, it's time to take a good long look at them.

This House of Lunatics is a disgrace to our nation, our traditions, our way of life and our reputation in the world. They have no regard of Law, the Constitution or integrity.

They have impeached a man for asking a judge to settle a disagreement. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
 
jnug said:
You have not been following this case. If you are still all the way back at Trump asked a foreign head of government to look into Corruption you are just far behind.

In the first place, both Bidens are US citizens. If Trump thought there was something to look into you don't turn Rudy, his goon squad and the Three Amigos loose in a foreign country. You go to your US Agencies of government.

Bill Barr for his immediately released a statement after the July 25th call telling us that he had no idea what Trump was talking about with regard to name checking him and that DOJ had no involvement. So SORYY....won't fly.
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No. Not when you have spies from the other party trying to undermine everything you are doing. That is the problem with government corruption. You cannot have the fox securing the hen house. You remove everyone from the loop who might be associated with the corruption and use only people you trust. Otherwise you will be dealing with someone like Comey who is more interested in grandstanding and disrupting an election the way he did to Hillary than turning evidence over to the DOJ and doing his job.
 
code1211 said:
My point is that the crimes cited in the Constitution do not appear in the Articles of Impeachment conjured by the House of Lunatics.

The clear direction in the Constitution is that if the sitting president does commit CRIMES, then the House has this tool to remove him. This president committed no crime(s) so they're just pleasuring themselves at our expense to our horror.

The Framers hoped that the Representatives in the House would be honest and ethical. They did, however, foresee Shifty as Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers.

When the House of Representatives is controlled by lying, swindling politicians who actually want to end our election process, it's time to take a good long look at them.

This House of Lunatics is a disgrace to our nation, our traditions, our way of life and our reputation in the world. They have no regard of Law, the Constitution or integrity.

They have impeached a man for asking a judge to settle a disagreement. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
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The crimes of Clinton aren't written in the Constitution either. Try harder.

The House is a political body and IS ALWAYS controlled by lying swindling politicians. The Senate and White House also. Sorry to burst your bubble, but lying is not restricted to tge Democratic party.
 
rocket88 said:
The crimes of Clinton aren't written in the Constitution either. Try harder.

The House is a political body and IS ALWAYS controlled by lying swindling politicians. The Senate and White House also. Sorry to burst your bubble, but lying is not restricted to tge Democratic party.
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They were listed in the penal code. Obstruction of a federal investigation, lying to federal investigators, suborning perjury are actual crimes that are written in physical books. Obstruction of Congress is neither.

Try harder.
 
jnug said:
You have not been following this case. If you are still all the way back at Trump asked a foreign head of government to look into Corruption you are just far behind.

In the first place, both Bidens are US citizens. If Trump thought there was something to look into you don't turn Rudy, his goon squad and the Three Amigos loose in a foreign country. You go to your US Agencies of government.

Bill Barr for his immediately released a statement after the July 25th call telling us that he had no idea what Trump was talking about with regard to name checking him and that DOJ had no involvement. So SORYY....won't fly.
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Using a shadow government of goons to do it. The corruption is obvious and clear, watching fellow Americans deny it is painful. The slow, banal descent into legal authoritarianism.
 
Jay59 said:
They were listed in the penal code. Obstruction of a federal investigation, lying to federal investigators, suborning perjury are actual crimes that are written in physical books. Obstruction of Congress is neither.

Try harder.
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Read what i replied to. The poster said "in the Constitution."
 
Of course he's guilty.

And Republican Senators will cover for him.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
No. Not when you have spies from the other party trying to undermine everything you are doing. That is the problem with government corruption. You cannot have the fox securing the hen house. You remove everyone from the loop who might be associated with the corruption and use only people you trust. Otherwise you will be dealing with someone like Comey who is more interested in grandstanding and disrupting an election the way he did to Hillary than turning evidence over to the DOJ and doing his job.
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Oh OK...so instead of going to YOUR DOJ run by YOUR Political Hack, you turn to Drunken Rudy and his goon squad. Ah-huh. Makes perfect sense for a Thug like Trump.
 
code1211 said:
My point is that the crimes cited in the Constitution do not appear in the Articles of Impeachment conjured by the House of Lunatics.

The clear direction in the Constitution is that if the sitting president does commit CRIMES, then the House has this tool to remove him. This president committed no crime(s) so they're just pleasuring themselves at our expense to our horror.

The Framers hoped that the Representatives in the House would be honest and ethical. They did, however, foresee Shifty as Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers.

When the House of Representatives is controlled by lying, swindling politicians who actually want to end our election process, it's time to take a good long look at them.

This House of Lunatics is a disgrace to our nation, our traditions, our way of life and our reputation in the world. They have no regard of Law, the Constitution or integrity.

They have impeached a man for asking a judge to settle a disagreement. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
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Yes they are. You simply do not know how to read the Constitution. Read it CAREFULLY and then read the Federalist Papers and then read the works of actual Constitutional Law Scholars and then you will at least have some idea what you are talking about.
 
rocket88 said:
Read what i replied to. The poster said "in the Constitution."
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Very good. If you go by what is in the Constitution, only treason or bribery. That's clearly not the case and no one has even raised the suggestion. Is it your point that Trump cannot be impeached?
 
jnug said:
Oh OK...so instead of going to YOUR DOJ run by YOUR Political Hack, you turn to Drunken Rudy and his goon squad. Ah-huh. Makes perfect sense for a Thug like Trump.
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Exactly. It makes perfect sense to trust someone like Rudy when you have so many spies corrupt people planted in your staff doing everything they can to leak information or undermine everything you are doing. Especially with half our government conducting witch hunts and coups since the people elected you.
 
CherubRam said:
So then, Trump conspired against the Democrats by investigating them, to see if they had committed a crime?
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Not quite. Trump used the power of his presidency to try to force a foreign government to investigate a political opponent.
 
Jay59 said:
Very good. If you go by what is in the Constitution, only treason or bribery. That's clearly not the case and no one has even raised the suggestion. Is it your point that Trump cannot be impeached?
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Bribery and extortion....only depends on if you are the briber ir the bribee. Or on this case whether you are Trump or Zelensky.

So which of those was Bill Clinton guilty of?
 
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