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Lindsey: Trump Did Nothing Wrong in His Own Mind.

lemmiwinx said:
The writings of Hamilton and other Founders don't mean a thing in this cockamaimy world of ours. All that matters is the Republicans hold the senate (thank god) so the lynch mob is temporarily held at bay. When the Democrats flip Texas the country is done.
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What? What?

Those are our founders that wrote the Constitution, for Krissakes. You may hold disdain & ignorance towards them and their writings , but they are the foundation for the country that most of us love. Your statement explains well our dissonance. You are sadly wrong if you think most Americans don't appreciate and respect our country's founders thoughts when founding this great experiment of ours. You can stick with your party, we'll stick with America, her Constitution, and those guys you could care less about.
 
veritas1 said:
No, actually the thing Hamilton most warned about in Federalist #65 is exactly what's happening, that being a totally partisan impeachment. Hamilton spoke of the danger of one party using impeachment as a political weapon. In fact, Pelosi and Nadler made this exact point back in 1998 when Clinton was being impeached. Now, they totally ignore their own warnings in the headlong rush to get Trump. As for the Constitution, vague accusations of "abuse of power" do not meet the standard for impeachment. Nor does "obstruction of Congress", whatever that is.
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It's not vague. It is crystal clear. Trump used Presidential power to coerce a foreign government to help him win an American election and he did it by blocking an act of Congress and helping Russia in its war against a nation we are obliged to help defend against Russia. Besides being clear it also really couldn't be much worse
 
Chomsky said:
What? What?

Those are our founders that wrote the Constitution, for Krissakes. You may hold disdain & ignorance towards them and their writings , but they are the foundation for the country that most of us love. Your statement explains well our dissonance. You are sadly wrong if you think most Americans don't appreciate and respect our country's founders thoughts when founding this great experiment of ours. You can stick with your party, we'll stick with America, her Constitution, and those guys you could care less about.
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Sarcasm, look it up.
 
veritas1 said:
Being called stupid by people devoid of conscience, devoid respect for law, devoid of respect for tradition and generally opposed to everything normal, is something I prize. The more leftwingers call me names, the more I know I'm right. I'll start worrying when they ever agree with anything I say.
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Do you have a reading comprehension issue?
 
veritas1 said:
No, we simply won't aid the raping of the Constitution that the left is engaging in. Nothing funnier than leftists talking about the founders and the Constitution, two things they hate as long as they don't have to do with attacking Trump. And they think they're fooling people with their fake, pious bull***t.
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You are preparing to acquit a President who was duly impeached without any defense. You are holding a trial where the defense has not even claimed innocence of any of the charges and will not call any witnesses to defend him of them. Who is raping the Constitution again?
 
veritas1 said:
Besides charity? I'm talking about the people who actually have the power to do something about it; the people in charge. It's funny but the only people who actually went out to LA and cleaned up a large section of the homeless encampment were Christian volunteers. The MSM, of course, ignored it.
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You think poverty is a partisan problem? A partisan concern? There's poverty all over the country, especially in rural flyover areas. If you're trying to make this a partisan issue, you're barking up the wrong tree.
 
JackA said:
It's not vague. It is crystal clear. Trump used Presidential power to coerce a foreign government to help him win an American election and he did it by blocking an act of Congress and helping Russia in its war against a nation we are obliged to help defend against Russia. Besides being clear it also really couldn't be much worse
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Nonsense. If Trump holding up aid for 8 weeks was impeachable, how about Obama offering none for 8 years, including while Crimea was invaded. I know, I know, that's different. That's Obama.
 
less right said:
More likely a "too stupid to form the requisite intent" defense. It's what saved Jr. in his tower meeting.

ETA: I guess that's really the same thing.
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Haha! :2razz:
 
Chomsky said:
You think poverty is a partisan problem? A partisan concern? There's poverty all over the country, especially in rural flyover areas. If you're trying to make this a partisan issue, you're barking up the wrong tree.
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Look, there are tens of thousands of people lying around in their own filth in LA, SF, Seattle and Portland and the liberals in charge there do nothing about it. Then, they have the gumption to rail about the "immorality" of people who voted for and/or support the president. In that sense, it is a partisan issue.
 
GDViking said:
What she was caused of was not a crime, it was against policy, and every proceeding sos used the same procedure.

Nice try at deflection tho
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So had she won, could she have been impeached over "abuse of power" in her mishandling of classified emails and servers? And if she'd fought the impeachment and not allowed potential witnesses to testify, could the House have added "Obstruction of Congress"?

How would that be any different than what we see now? Other than everyone would be on the other side of the issue and arguing that side as fervently as they're arguing their current sides?

Makes you think.
 
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JackA said:
Lindsey Graham Bizarrely Defends Trump: 'He Did Nothing Wrong In His Mind' | HuffPost

This is a defense? Trump is to be understood, it seems, the way you would the craziest sort of lunatic, except that instead of putting him in an asylum we will let him continue to run the country.
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Lindsey has failed to explain how this is grounds for his own mind, which is supposed to be focused on the Constitution, not the braincase of some orange guy he fantasizes about every night.
 
iguanaman said:
You are preparing to acquit a President who was duly impeached without any defense. You are holding a trial where the defense has not even claimed innocence of any of the charges and will not call any witnesses to defend him of them. Who is raping the Constitution again?
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Trump needed no defense since none of Schiff's House witnesses claimed to have any firsthand knowledge of illegalities and, in fact, when asked specifically, answered no, they had no such information. Yea, they had plenty of OPINIONS, but opinions cannot be used to remove a POTUS.

The articles do not meet the standard the Constitution demands, as people like Dershowitz have pointed out again and again.
 
veritas1 said:
Look, there are tens of thousands of people lying around in their own filth in LA, SF, Seattle and Portland and the liberals in charge there do nothing about it. Then, they have the gumption to rail about the "immorality" of people who voted for and/or support the president. In that sense, it is a partisan issue.
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What do you suggest? Have the government interfere with free-market economics, by regulating housing? Ship them to cheaper places out in the country? I'm not sure what you want done here?

But the argument we have here with those supporting Trump is not about "morality", but one of Constitutionality. Specifically, Abuse of Power.
 
JackA said:
Lindsey Graham Bizarrely Defends Trump: 'He Did Nothing Wrong In His Mind' | HuffPost

This is a defense? Trump is to be understood, it seems, the way you would the craziest sort of lunatic, except that instead of putting him in an asylum we will let him continue to run the country.
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Trump also believes windmills cause cancer and Obama tapped his phone. If the Trump thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he clearly doesn't understand the laws or ethics, and lacks the moral character of holding his current position of power. If anything, Graham's statement is a strong argument as to why Trump should be impeached. He is unfit and ignorant.
 
Excast said:
Thankfully we don't base our system of laws on what the criminal perceives to be wrong.

Well, usually at least. Presidents named Donald Trump seem to be able to do whatever the hell they want while conservative America cheers.
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It's the worst legal defense I have ever seen. We have mass murderers publishing their manifestoes of social media, arguing why their actions are justifiable and not wrong.
 
eman623 said:
So had she won, could she have been impeached over "abuse of power" in her mishandling of classified emails and servers? And if she'd fought the impeachment and not allowed potential witnesses to testify, could the House have added "Obstruction of Congress"?

How would that be any different than what we see now? Other than everyone would be on the other side of the issue and arguing that side as fervently as they're arguing their current sides?

Makes you think.
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To the bolded:

If the political will is there, then yes she should be impeached. It's all about political will, in other words the will of the People. Everything in our Constitution leads back to the People, with the People as the final arbiter.
 
Chomsky said:
What do you suggest? Have the government interfere with free-market economics, by regulating housing? Ship them to cheaper places out in the country? I'm not sure what you want done here?

But the argument we have here with those supporting Trump is not about "morality", but one of Constitutionality. Specifically, Abuse of Power.
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We have the wealthiest country in history and can't figure out how to get tens of thousands of people off the streets, especially the mentally ill and drug addicted? Really? This has nothing to do with housing prices. It has to do with government being pro-active and helping not only the homeless but those who have had their communities destroyed by them. If we need to build treatment centers, institutions, whatever it is, then we should do it. Take some of the money wasted in Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria and solve this mess.
 
Chomsky said:
What? What?

Those are our founders that wrote the Constitution, for Krissakes. You may hold disdain & ignorance towards them and their writings , but they are the foundation for the country that most of us love. Your statement explains well our dissonance. You are sadly wrong if you think most Americans don't appreciate and respect our country's founders thoughts when founding this great experiment of ours. You can stick with your party, we'll stick with America, her Constitution, and those guys you could care less about.
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If they have to choose between the founders and Orange Jesus™, I guess there's really no question how it's gonna go.
 
AProudLefty said:
If you don't, you would realize that he was calling your post stupid, not you. Re-read it again slowly.
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That's OK. I've been called stupid and plenty of other names by liberals in here on a regular basis, so my comment stands.
 
veritas1 said:
That's OK. I've been called stupid and plenty of other names by liberals in here on a regular basis, so my comment stands.
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So you admit you were mistaken? That's good. I, myself, have been called many names, some way worse than others too by conservatives. It's a standard fare here.
 
veritas1 said:
Translated: I have no answer for why the left is full of hypocrites.
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Liberals do more work to push social safety nets than conservatives do. This is objective fact. You’re being absurd.
 
Hamish Howl said:
If they have to choose between the founders and Orange Jesus™, I guess there's really no question how it's gonna go.
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Here's Hamilton in Federalist #65, speaking of impeachment:

They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself. The prosecution of them, for this reason, will seldom fail to agitate the passions of the whole community, and to divide it into parties more or less friendly or inimical to the accused. In many cases it will connect itself with the pre-existing factions, and will enlist all their animosities, partialities, influence, and interest on one side or on the other; and in such cases there will always be the greatest danger that the decision will be regulated more by the comparative strength of parties, than by the real demonstrations of innocence or guilt

IOW, we should fear impeachments that are totally partisan in nature, as this one obviously is.
 
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