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Bernie Sanders nearly doubles support in New Hampshire; from 17% to 29%.

Surrealistik said:
I'm afraid you cannot with all due respect.

Bernie's VP choice matters far too much, and there's no way Klobuchar could be relied upon to provide any kind of continuity or carry his torch; it would have to be another ardent progressive.

What would be the point of Bernie winning if it meant a conservadem took up the reins and then immediately proceeded to neglect his goals and priorities should he die in office?
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Well, I guess that makes me more of an anti-Trumper than a Liberal or Progressive. I'm fine with Klobuchar as Veep, but would really like Pete personally. I just think Klobuchar works better for electability.
 
Mr Person said:
Which is why I want both: what are the ultimate goals, what realistically do you think you can get? But these debates are basically slogan and barb contests.
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The sky is the limit if the people support the agenda. I like Bernie’s threat to Joe Manchin — that he’ll come to West Virginia and rally the people and force Manchin to bend and then break. Bernie is hugely popular in West Virginia, and the people are more populist than ideological.
 
Surrealistik said:
CNN's egregiously biased moderating and question framing would be another contemporary example: all it seemed to do was increase Sanders' support, undermine confidence in CNN, and allow him to raise an absolute asston of money.

Also Clinton's recent attacks on Sanders would be another; epic backfire.
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Clinton needs to find something to do with her time. Maybe jumping on one of Musk's rocket ships is an idea.
 
Taylor said:
Not to be Debbie Downer, but it's a bit much to say Sanders "nearly doubles" support with an increase of just 12% between two polls, each with a margin of error of 5%.
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No, it's not. That's massive in this crowded field.
 
swing_voter said:
A lot of the EU people brag about free health care to Americans but complain about their free health care to each other.
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It's a real issue with single-payer that a bad government underfunding it is a threat. But the people who complain about that are not much interested in getting rid of single-payer. They just want it improved. They still much prefer it to our system.

And if Bernie is elected, it's not like congress is going to pass any of his programs.
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First, you don't know that. Second, give me a good president leading the country to support the right things with a bad Congress, over a bad president with a bad Congress.
 
Craig234 said:
No, it's not. That's massive in this crowded field.
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It's a widely exaggerated summary of a single poll with a wide margin of error.
 
Taylor said:
It's a widely exaggerated summary of a single poll with a wide margin of error.
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You throw around the phrase margin of error despite its being irrelevant with these large numbers, and as if you don't know what it means.
 
Craig234 said:
You throw around the phrase margin of error despite its being irrelevant with these large numbers, and as if you don't know what it means.
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How is a margin of error near 5% "irrelevant"? :lamo
 
Chomsky said:
Well, I guess that makes me more of an anti-Trumper than a Liberal or Progressive. I'm fine with Klobuchar as Veep, but would really like Pete personally. I just think Klobuchar works better for electability.
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Pete is so... slimy. He's flipped and flopped and it's ridiculous. Just because he is groomed and well spoken does not mean he would be a good president.

The one thing the democrats MUST focus on in 2020 is actually Trump. The primary driver in 2018 as laid out inb a variety of voter model trends is actually negative partisanship; people are sick and tired of Trump and his followers and are voting against them simply to upset them.

This is incendiary in our little matchbox republik, but frankly, it's needed. Trump and his zealot republicans in the senate and house, and his mass of deluded followers, are a literal threat to this nation, and must be treated as such.
 
Dans La Lune said:
The sky is the limit if the people support the agenda. I like Bernie’s threat to Joe Manchin — that he’ll come to West Virginia and rally the people and force Manchin to bend and then break. Bernie is hugely popular in West Virginia, and the people are more populist than ideological.
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I <3 Sanders, and think he is an astounding, principled, and amazing human being. He is consistent, he cares about people generally, without hitches. I can't say the same for everyone else in the race.

My ONLY fear of a Sanders presidency?

That some right wing lunatic will assassinate him.
 
Obscurity said:
Pete is so... slimy. He's flipped and flopped and it's ridiculous. Just because he is groomed and well spoken does not mean he would be a good president.

The one thing the democrats MUST focus on in 2020 is actually Trump. The primary driver in 2018 as laid out inb a variety of voter model trends is actually negative partisanship; people are sick and tired of Trump and his followers and are voting against them simply to upset them.

This is incendiary in our little matchbox republik, but frankly, it's needed. Trump and his zealot republicans in the senate and house, and his mass of deluded followers, are a literal threat to this nation, and must be treated as such.
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That's a tough statement to swallow, but I believe you indeed may be right. Such a sad day for America!
 
Taylor said:
How is a margin of error near 5% "irrelevant"? :lamo
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I feel like I'm talking to a child here, but a 5% margin of error - which is most likely 0%, and equally likely to be higher or lower - is not relevant to a 12% increase, not changing the larger point of a large increase. Odds are most likely it was 12%, and with 95% confidence that it was from 7% to 17%, a large increase in any case.
 
Obscurity said:
Pete is so... slimy. He's flipped and flopped and it's ridiculous. Just because he is groomed and well spoken does not mean he would be a good president.

The one thing the democrats MUST focus on in 2020 is actually Trump. The primary driver in 2018 as laid out inb a variety of voter model trends is actually negative partisanship; people are sick and tired of Trump and his followers and are voting against them simply to upset them.

This is incendiary in our little matchbox republik, but frankly, it's needed. Trump and his zealot republicans in the senate and house, and his mass of deluded followers, are a literal threat to this nation, and must be treated as such.
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In what way are trumps base a threat? I would like to know what about me makes you feel threatened.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Chomsky said:
That's a tough statement to swallow, but I believe you indeed may be right. Such a sad day for America!
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It's a matter of fact. Regime cleavage is real. Look at the republican arguments throughout the entire "inquiry." It's all questioning process. The very idea that the republicans may think what Trump did is not "impeachable" would have been absolutely unthinkable in 1976, and it WAS unthinkable.

What MUST happen here is a universal rebuke by the normal people of this country of this behavior. If it doesn't happen, then that is the real sad day for america. It should not be normalized for our elected representatives to be openly mocking children on twitter. It should not be normalized for our president to expand and retweet debunked conspiracy theories that undermine the belief in the foundation of our systems of government and a myopic, twisted view of our constitution.

At the end of the day, 2020 is -literally- a do or die election. And I am not joking.
 
trouble13 said:
In what way are trumps base a threat? I would like to know what about me makes you feel threatened.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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1. The constant chatter among them (I am a shadow member of many and various Trump Groups on FB - don't dox me.) that if he loses or is impeached they will wage civil war. This is a CONSTANT comment line - and I do not believe for one second they are not sincere.

2. The normalizing of regime cleaveage and the normalizing of undermining our constitutional and governmental processes.

3. The normalizing of conspiracy theory.

4. The normalizing of beyond normal partisanship on both sides; reactionary on the left, actively encouraged on the right.

There are other ways. Trump himself is a threat. Do you understand what will happen if this impeachment fails? Do you understand what will be enabled?

Now, I'd say this differently if Trump was ACTIVELY worried about corruption; but there has been NO EVIDENCE beyond his word of mouth that he was worried about corruption.
 
Craig234 said:
I feel like I'm talking to a child here, but a 5% margin of error - which is most likely 0%, and equally likely to be higher or lower - is not relevant to a 12% increase, not changing the larger point of a large increase. Odds are most likely it was 12%, and with 95% confidence that it was from 7% to 17%, a large increase in any case.
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Yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Obscurity said:
I <3 Sanders, and think he is an astounding, principled, and amazing human being. He is consistent, he cares about people generally, without hitches. I can't say the same for everyone else in the race.

My ONLY fear of a Sanders presidency?

That some right wing lunatic will assassinate him.
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I honestly think that given our security and such these days, that assassinations are a thing of the past.

I'm not really on board with Sander's platform, but I will give him this. I think he's one of the very few out there with an actual ideology and he is honest about what that ideology is. I think too many politicians are just Party Followers and don't have a platform and ideology of their own. They'll just say whatever they need to say at the time to get play.

I don't know if Sander's can beat Trump. Maybe, but I'm not sure. But he's likely the most trustworthy of the bunch.
 
Obscurity said:
It's a matter of fact. Regime cleavage is real. Look at the republican arguments throughout the entire "inquiry." It's all questioning process. The very idea that the republicans may think what Trump did is not "impeachable" would have been absolutely unthinkable in 1976, and it WAS unthinkable.

What MUST happen here is a universal rebuke by the normal people of this country of this behavior. If it doesn't happen, then that is the real sad day for america. It should not be normalized for our elected representatives to be openly mocking children on twitter. It should not be normalized for our president to expand and retweet debunked conspiracy theories that undermine the belief in the foundation of our systems of government and a myopic, twisted view of our constitution.

At the end of the day, 2020 is -literally- a do or die election. And I am not joking.
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Here's a big part of the problem, which I'll try to start a thread on if I get motivated:

(CNN Business) Instead of airing the impeachment trial, Fox News fed viewers pro-Trump opinion in prime time

Here is Hannity's statement:

"If I were a terrible host," Sean Hannity told viewers Wednesday night, "I would force you to endure watching the regurgitation, the repetition ... the insanity that has gone on all day."
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And Dana Perino's:

"So you are looking live at the Senate floor. Don't worry, we are not going through the whole thing," co-host Dana Perino reassured viewers, adding, "Our reaction is coming up in just a minute, we promise."
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You are 100% right. The Republicans are not claiming Trump did not do wrong; they are contending they will not respect or comply with our system of governance.
 
Ikari said:
I honestly think that given our security and such these days, that assassinations are a thing of the past.

I'm not really on board with Sander's platform, but I will give him this. I think he's one of the very few out there with an actual ideology and he is honest about what that ideology is. I think too many politicians are just Party Followers and don't have a platform and ideology of their own. They'll just say whatever they need to say at the time to get play.

I don't know if Sander's can beat Trump. Maybe, but I'm not sure. But he's likely the most trustworthy of the bunch.
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Bingo! He's exactly what we need after Trump. My only fear is he will be hesitant to use the newly expanded presidential powers that occurred under Trump. But that may be a good thing ...
 
Ikari said:
I honestly think that given our security and such these days, that assassinations are a thing of the past.

I'm not really on board with Sander's platform, but I will give him this. I think he's one of the very few out there with an actual ideology and he is honest about what that ideology is. I think too many politicians are just Party Followers and don't have a platform and ideology of their own. They'll just say whatever they need to say at the time to get play.

I don't know if Sander's can beat Trump. Maybe, but I'm not sure. But he's likely the most trustworthy of the bunch.
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Odds I'd say are 50/50. Sanders getting Rogan's nod is actually relatively huge since his audience tends to be libertarian right wing.

Sanders resonates with a voter base the democrats have not activated. It's like Trump in 2016.
 
Chomsky said:
Here's a big part of the problem, which I'll try to start a thread on if I get motivated:

(CNN Business) Instead of airing the impeachment trial, Fox News fed viewers pro-Trump opinion in prime time

Here is Hannity's statement:



And Dana Perino's:



You are 100% right. The Republicans are not claiming Trump did not do wrong; they are contending they will not respect or comply with our system of governance.
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Yep; and they're shielding their audience to engineer a response. It's so blatantly abusive and propagandizing it's absurd. All the endless complaints from them about the media are nothing but a hollow representation of projection on a scale never before seen.

And that's the most sickening part.

These folks are being so openly abused and gaslighted it's absurd.
 
Chomsky said:
Bingo! He's exactly what we need after Trump. My only fear is he will be hesitant to use the newly expanded presidential powers that occurred under Trump. But that may be a good thing ...
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Sanders won't abuse his power like that. He's already shown that hesitation. He would instead do what a president is supposed to do; rally the people to put pressure on senators, like FDR did, use the power of the bully pulpit to ensure the people get what they want.

Sanders, IMHO, is the best matchup for the dems.
 
Craig234 said:
I feel like I'm talking to a child here, but a 5% margin of error - which is most likely 0%, and equally likely to be higher or lower - is not relevant to a 12% increase, not changing the larger point of a large increase. Odds are most likely it was 12%, and with 95% confidence that it was from 7% to 17%, a large increase in any case.
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If I could wave a magic wand, I'd have every child in America learn math through calculus - along with a solid intro stats class. I'd also have them take a year of Western Civ, followed by a year of solid American History, and finally a year long Constitution, Civics, and governance class.

We'd turn the country around in one good generation! :thumbs:
 
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