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New Poll Shows Bernie on Top

Chomsky said:
I think Bernie Klobuchar makes a lot of sense, to be honest. Klobuchar is popular in the Midwest States that will be critical to this election. She can work the moderate venues, while he's out pulling the progressive base. They'll love her in WI too, I assure you!
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They're too far apart on policy. It would like Bernie putting a Republican on the ticket to win. He wants someone with policy views he likes.
 
Chomsky said:
Yeah, I just don't see AOC in the mix at all.
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I didn't mean I seriously think he'll pick AOC, just that it's a fun idea. There would be some advantages - like McCain picking Sarah Palin - but she is inexperienced for that position (but more qualified than Palin).
 
Craig234 said:
I didn't mean I seriously think he'll pick AOC, just that it's a fun idea. There would be some advantages - like McCain picking Sarah Palin - but she is inexperienced for that position (but more qualified than Palin).
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no, she is not more qualified than Palin. She has zero executive experience and she has said far more idiotic things than Palin did.
 
Chomsky said:
I think Bernie Klobuchar makes a lot of sense, to be honest. Klobuchar is popular in the Midwest States that will be critical to this election. She can work the moderate venues, while he's out pulling the progressive base. They'll love her in WI too, I assure you!
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Now that is a charisma challenged team.
 
Craig234 said:
They're too far apart on policy. It would like Bernie putting a Republican on the ticket to win. He wants someone with policy views he likes.
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Well, J.F.K. choose L.B.J. because he needed the Texan to pull Texas for him. And it worked! In fact, after Kennedy's assassination L.B.J. went on to implement what might be the greatest social programs enactment the country has seen - his "Great Society"!

The Massachusetts Northeast Liberal Kennedy despised the Texan Southern (relatively) Conservative Johnson. But he needed Johnson to win Texas, with Texas being required for him to prevail in the election. The party and his campaign pushed Johnson upon Kennedy, with Kennedy resisting until the end. And the rest is history, with Kennedy winning Texas by the slimmest of margins, margins that were there due to the popular senior Senator from Texas.

Politics makes strange bedfellows ...
 
TurtleDude said:
Now that is a charisma challenged team.
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I can respect that, and do admit charisma means a lot today.

But Bernie has his charms. And Klobuchar's low-key pragmatic & sensible ways play very well in the Midwest.

I was always surprised how Trump's hyperbolic ways played in the Midwest, because those are not traditional Midwestern values. I swear the farmers I've known are all pretty much men-of-few-words. And, pragmatism? Hah! "Pragmatic", is their middle name! And they hate fast-talkers, bull****, & bull****ters.
 
Chomsky said:
I can respect that, and do admit charisma means a lot today.

But Bernie has his charms. And Klobuchar's low-key pragmatic & sensible ways play very well in the Midwest.

I was always surprised how Trump's hyperbolic ways played in the Midwest, because those are not traditional Midwestern values. I swear the farmers I've known are all pretty much men-of-few-words. And, pragmatism? Hah! "Pragmatic", is their middle name! And they hate fast-talkers, bull****, & bull****ters.
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I think that is a ticket that would likely win in the general. I'm not sure if Bernie would necessarily go for it though. I'm going to push back on the charisma issue a little bit. People under 40 tend to be really passionate about Sanders and I doubt it is all policy oriented. It might just be a generational thing.
 
Craig234 said:
I don't think that will ever happen. And a Bernie-Warren ticket seems out also. Now, a Bernie-AOC ticket...
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If Bernie wins I'd bet his veep pick will be Nina Turner anyways. She's put in a lot of work on his campaign now and back in 2016. She's earned her stripes.
 
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MrPeanut said:
I think that is a ticket that would likely win in the general. I'm not sure if Bernie would necessarily go for it though. I'm going to push back on the charisma issue a little bit. People under 40 tend to be really passionate about Sanders and I doubt it is all policy oriented. It might just be a generational thing.
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He has his grandfatherly charms, I will admit. He comes across as that grandfather that keeps the family in reality, by being hard-nosed about the family's core values. A compassionate caring man, that will loudly & defiantly raise his voice to fight for what's right and to do the right thing.

My grandfather was the same exact way, even though he was very conservative. He truly was the patriarch of our family, and indeed led one side of my family out of war-torn Europe to settle here. A calm, compassionate, loving man, who when he spoke strongly with conviction - stopped all of us in our tracks!

Bernie reminds me of him (my grandfather). I really miss that old man and his guidance & moral clarity.
 
poweRob said:
She legally can't be. She's too young to be prez so I'd imagine she can't be back up prez for the same reason.

Edit... Yeah. She needs to be 35 to be veep. AOC is 30.

Vice President of the United States - Wikipedia
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Good catch, PowerRob!

What a pair they would make, though. The guy that is older than most of us will ever be, and the women who is the age of his grand-daughters - too young to yet qualify. And she'd be thrilled, I bet. Bernie really does have that grandfatherly appeal to the younger generation! They love him!
 
poweRob said:
She legally can't be. She's too young to be prez so I'd imagine she can't be back up prez for the same reason.

Edit... Yeah. She needs to be 35 to be veep. AOC is 30.

Vice President of the United States - Wikipedia
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Which is kind of an odd rule to still have in place. It doesn't fit our usual principles, but people accept it. It's even a bit odder when you look at the life expectancy when it was passed.
 
Craig234 said:
Which is kind of an odd rule to still have in place. It doesn't fit our usual principles, but people accept it. It's even a bit odder when you look at the life expectancy when it was passed.
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Lol... At 35 you were a wise old owl back then ii suppose.
 
Chomsky said:
Good catch, PowerRob!

What a pair they would make, though. The guy that is older than most of us will ever be, and the women who is the age of his grand-daughters - too young to yet qualify. And she'd be thrilled, I bet. Bernie really does have that grandfatherly appeal to the younger generation! They love him!
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I really like her fire. She doesn't wait around for others to come up with ideas or action. She's very willing to jump in and get her hands dirty. And her high speed processing is definitely offset supportively by Sander's consistent stable drum beat through the years. It is a good team.
 
Chomsky said:
Well, J.F.K. choose L.B.J. because he needed the Texan to pull Texas for him. And it worked! In fact, after Kennedy's assassination L.B.J. went on to implement what might be the greatest social programs enactment the country has seen - his "Great Society"!

The Massachusetts Northeast Liberal Kennedy despised the Texan Southern (relatively) Conservative Johnson. But he needed Johnson to win Texas, with Texas being required for him to prevail in the election. The party and his campaign pushed Johnson upon Kennedy, with Kennedy resisting until the end. And the rest is history, with Kennedy winning Texas by the slimmest of margins, margins that were there due to the popular senior Senator from Texas.

Politics makes strange bedfellows ...
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It's funny, both of them changed. JFK was actually a relatively 'conservative' Democrat when he ran - he was actually pretty contemptuous of the 'liberal wing' of the part. But he got a lot more liberal over time in office, especially on matters of war and black Americans' civil rights.

LBJ was violently opposed as JFK's VP choice by Robert and by labor - but he surprised pretty much everyone, opposing his fellow southerners to be a champion for fighting poverty and getting civil rights passed. The area he blew it was Vietnam, which prevented a second (full) term, tragically for the nation as it turned out.
 
Craig234 said:
It's funny, both of them changed. JFK was actually a relatively 'conservative' Democrat when he ran - he was actually pretty contemptuous of the 'liberal wing' of the part. But he got a lot more liberal over time in office, especially on matters of war and black Americans' civil rights.

LBJ was violently opposed as JFK's VP choice by Robert and by labor - but he surprised pretty much everyone, opposing his fellow southerners to be a champion for fighting poverty and getting civil rights passed. The area he blew it was Vietnam, which prevented a second (full) term, tragically for the nation as it turned out.
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I think yours is a good analysis.
 
Craig234 said:
Which is kind of an odd rule to still have in place. It doesn't fit our usual principles, but people accept it. It's even a bit odder when you look at the life expectancy when it was passed.
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There's been lots of idiosyncrasies like that. During 'Nam, you could be drafted at 19, go off to serve, come back 6 mos later an active combat veteran, even possibly injured or disabled, and then not able to have a legal drink when you arrived back on our shores!

Some states lowered their drinking ages in response.
 
poweRob said:
I really like her fire. She doesn't wait around for others to come up with ideas or action. She's very willing to jump in and get her hands dirty. And her high speed processing is definitely offset supportively by Sander's consistent stable drum beat through the years. It is a good team.
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The bolded is a great observation. Well done! :thumbs:
 
Chomsky said:
There's been lots of idiosyncrasies like that. During 'Nam, you could be drafted at 19, go off to serve, come back 6 mos later an active combat veteran, even possibly injured or disabled, and then not able to have a legal drink when you arrived back on our shores!

Some states lowered their drinking ages in response.
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Ya, that argument was used both to lower the drinking age, and to lower the voting age to 18.

Then decades later they found drunk driving was especially an issue for those younger drivers IIUC, and the federal government demanded states raise it back to 21, using the pressure of withholding federal road funds, which worked, though it's constitutionally questionable.
 
Craig234 said:
Ya, that argument was used both to lower the drinking age, and to lower the voting age to 18.

Then decades later they found drunk driving was especially an issue for those younger drivers IIUC, and the federal government demanded states raise it back to 21, using the pressure of withholding federal road funds, which worked, though it's constitutionally questionable.
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The lowered drinking age was a valid, though. How can you physically force a young man put his life at risk by dropping him into a war zone, then refuse him getting bought a drink upon his arrival back home? It was bull****.
 
Chomsky said:
The lowered drinking age was a valid, though. How can you physically force a young man put his life at risk by dropping him into a war zone, then refuse him getting bought a drink upon his arrival back home? It was bull****.
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There's a principle there, but there's another saying how much sense does it make to kill a lot of Americans if drinking at 18 has worse effects than later? That's more sort of a rhetorical principle about combat and drinking - I'd argue perhaps 18 is too young mentally for people to make those life and death decisions, but not physically to be cannon fodder and pull a trigger.

These splits happen.

If we're going to say that being physically able to perform combat is all that matters, note that people are physically able to have children as young as about 13, yet we don't use that 'physically able' argument as the standard for that, perhaps we would if they were more able to be soldiers by 13.

There really aren't a lot of clear 'principles' here, just meeting desires, and I'd argue perhaps the most principled item is the raising of the drinking age to 21 - though even that raises yet another questions whether alcohol isn't more harm that good for everyone, yet we made yet another compromise to repeal prohibition on that, meeting another desire.
 
Obscurity said:
Truly sickening. Sanders will not fail and burn. If he makes it through Biden, he will devestate Donald John Trump.
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I think you were willing to wager on this at one time.

If Bernie wins the nom, will you be willing to wager on Trump vs. Bernie?
 
Airyaman said:
I think you were willing to wager on this at one time.

If Bernie wins the nom, will you be willing to wager on Trump vs. Bernie?
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I'd wager Sanders beats Trump, yes.
 
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