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Hillary Clinton is wrong in many ways, but she is right about Bernie!

eman623 said:
A recent poll showed Bernie leading nationally. That is all you need to know to understand the full-on blitz he is getting from Warren, CNN and the DNC. Not sure why they are using Hillary as their pitbull, maybe it's because she's already widely disliked and out of politics so she has nothing to lose.
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Yeah, they should do it, and keep doing it until that loser's numbers fall back down. He is dangerous to the party and needs to be taken down. Normal.
 
Hypothetical said:
not to worry, we all knew the DNC was not going to allow Bernie to be their candidate. called that one... oh about the time he got in the race to be honest.

oh wait, your not one of those naive ones who believes it's a COINCIDENCE that all of these prominent democrat women start calling Bernie out, right?
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The DNC is not going to give him the nomination because of threats and innuendos. They will not overrule the will of millions of primary voters because he says the primary is rigged. You need to live with that, sorry.
 
iguanaman said:
The DNC is not going to give him the nomination because of threats and innuendos. They will not overrule the will of millions of primary voters because he says the primary is rigged. You need to live with that, sorry.
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Exactly. Once he loses again, his naive and misguided followers (or should I say cult members?) will blame everything else, except their weak candidate who is not favored by the majority of Americans.
 
poweRob said:
Lol... So you are talking out of your ass and can't back it up with eveidence. Writing an essay doesnt supplant evidence. Btw... Bernie topped biden in a national cnn poll yesterday 27% to 24% among likely democratic voters. Link in my previous lost.

There goes that bull**** angle. I guess you have to find another tactic.
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By the way, like I said, go to aggregators, don't rely on ONE poll. Another recent one, including TODAY, showed Bernie again with no more than 20%, and Biden with 24%.

Biden leads, while others gain momentum in bid for 2020 nomination: Reuters/Ipsos poll

And remember, national polls about primaries are misleading. If your cult leader gets a bunch of Californians to say his name in a poll, it doesn't mean that he'll get more delegates. Once Biden reaches the Southern states where Sanders support is very small, let's see what will happen.
 
GreatNews2night said:
If these polls hold, the Dems will make a historical mistake, and Trump will win in a landslide. Your generation will get screwed. Mine won't, or at least, I won't (I'm pretty wealthy, in the top 2% of all Americans, and in a sector of the economy that will do well regardless, so, I won't suffer any impact; maybe much the opposite, the right wing tax structure will benefit me). In this sense, I share with you something: by voting for the Dem candidate I'll be shooting myself in the foot; I'll do it anyway. If it's Sanders, he'll lose anyway so the taxes will continue to favor me. But I don't care. Self interest is not how I vote.

By voting for Sanders, you'll ensure Trump's victory and will help with screwing your own generation. Smart! [Not!]
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Sanders has a bigger lead over trump than any of the other candidates. Man you say a lot of things that are just flat out wrong.
 
GreatNews2night said:
I can't? What part of LOOK AT THE FREAKING RESULT OF THE 2016 DEM PRIMARY you don't understand? Is this phrase short enough for your short attention span???

I word-counted my post: 143 words, that's what YOU call an ESSAY!!!

OMG, that's too funny. The millennial thinks that 143 words is what constitutes an essay!!!

Why am I not surprised?
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I'm 50. :lol:
 
poweRob said:
Sanders has a bigger lead over trump than any of the other candidates. Man you say a lot of things that are just flat out wrong.
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Factually incorrect. CNN poll, Wed Jan 22, Dems vs. Trump: Biden +9, Sanders +7.
Marquette, Jan 22, Biden +4, Sanders +1.
EPIC-MRA, Jan 15, Biden +6, Sanders +5.
IBD-TIPP, Jan 13, Biden +2, Sanders +1
Fox News, Jan 10, Biden +5, Sanders +4.
Detroit News, Jan 9, Biden +7, Sanders +4
Mason Dixon, Dec 31, Biden +2 vs. Trump, Trump +5 vs. Sanders
CNN, Dec 20, Biden +5, Sanders +4.
USA Today / Suffolk, Dec 17, Biden vs. Trump, Trump +3, Sanders vs. Trump, Trump +5
IBD-TIPP, Dec 16, Biden +5, Trump vs. Sanders, Trump +1
Fox News, Dec 15, Biden +7, Sanders +6
Marquette, Dec 12, Biden +1, Trump vs. Sanders, Trump +2
CNN, Dec 12, Biden vs. Trump, Trump +1, Sanders vs. Trump, Trump +7
And so on.

On the 3 pages of polls in aggregator site Real Clear Politics, I counted no fewer than 30 polls with similar results like the above. I could quote all 30 but the ones I've quoted above suffice (if I continue, you'll say it's an essay, LOL).

In all 30, Biden is either beating Trump by larger margins than Sanders, or beating Trump while Sanders loses to him, or losing to Trump by smaller margins than Sanders loses to Trump.

You were saying? Come again? Who is saying flat wrong things???

Sure, you can find a couple of polls with different results... but the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY, really VAST MAJORITY show Biden doing better than Sanders against Trump.

That's why you need to look at AGGREGATOR sites, not just a couple of polls that show you what you want to see.

Do you get it now, or are there too many words above for your short attention span?
 
poweRob said:
I'm 50. :lol:
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By the way, old guy, here is another recent one that you won't like:

Biden Holds Onto National Lead in New Poll

Biden 30%, Sanders 23%.

And observe that Biden is gaining terrain faster, too. From the same pollster's previous one to this one, Biden went up 4% while Sanders, only 2%.

It must be so infuriating when you *think* the voters should be supporting your cult leader, but they are supporting Biden instead, huh? Poor you. I pity you.
 
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I have said this before. Bernie is a gadfly, a social Democrat gadfly. I have seen them at work in my State House. And you don't necessarily see how gadflies use their influence and exploit their power in the traditional ways people expect. They don't sponsor and manage lots of bills from Hopper, through committee to a final floor vote. They are not interested in racking up numbers or impressing their colleagues, or making friends and alliances.

They offer a consistent, principled message about influence peddling and the impact it has on the poor, the disenfranchised and the quality of representation they don't get, and they shout that message from the rooftops every chance they get! You don't win popularity contests like that. To traditional politicians like Clinton, it comes across as sanctimonious grandstanding, and nobody likes goody two-shoes know- it- all, self-righteous, royal pains- in- the- ass gadflies. But every legislative body desperately needs gadflies to remind them every single day, every single vote, that legislators cannot let those corporate lobbyists ooze and slither around those halls, and in those committees unchecked by an oath, and a duty to remember those constituants that don't have lobbyists oozing and slithering for them.

So when do they assert their power, and get things done? They get them done in committee. They use the bills others are writing, they pick their moments, and shove in an amendment, or get something pulled out and when votes are tight whether in committee or on the floor, and they know Dems need that vote of theirs, or pubs are desperate to get them to abstain it will come with a pricetag!

Trust me, Gadflies are no dumber about politics or how and when to be team players, than anyone else. They have some of the surest seats, and the best incumbency win rates in the business. Look at Sanders re-election campaigns. IN 2012 he won with 71%. In 2018, he won with 67% AS AN INDEPENDENT! That leaves a lot of latitude to negotiate and maneuver politically.

Sanders gets a lot done, whether his name is attached as a primary sponsor or co-sponsor on a lot of bills or not. Sometimes, all his Democratic colleagues want from Sanders, is for him to keep quiet, stay in his seat and not make waves today, on this amendment, so that they can get a couple of progressives to vote for something, they are not super comfortable with. And even then, you can bet, Sanders makes them pay a price for his silence!
 
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Too late to delete, I will turn this last post on Bernie into its own thread.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Exactly. Once he loses again, his naive and misguided followers (or should I say cult members?) will blame everything else, except their weak candidate who is not favored by the majority of Americans.
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Not only that they are so obsessed with Sanders that they will vote for no one else and often are so vindictive they vote for Trump to punish us. I have no use for that behavior, it reminds me of the trumpists. Sanders is not totally innocent of inciting that behavior either. He has already refused to say he will endorse whomever the nominee is. Every other candidate has done that.
 
GreatNews2night said:
By the way, old guy, here is another recent one that you won't like:

Biden Holds Onto National Lead in New Poll

Biden 30%, Sanders 23%.

And observe that Biden is gaining terrain faster, too. From the same pollster's previous one to this one, Biden went up 4% while Sanders, only 2%.

It must be so infuriating when you *think* the voters should be supporting your cult leader, but they are supporting Biden instead, huh? Poor you. I pity you.
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I dont even much care for national polls. National polls will sway as the states fall.

You are too emotional to talk to. Sad.
 
btthegreat said:
I have said this before. Bernie is a gadfly, a social Democrat gadfly. I have seen them at work in my State House. And you don't necessarily see how gadflies use their influence and exploit their power in the traditional ways people expect. They don't sponsor and manage lots of bills from Hopper, through committee to a final floor vote. They are not interested in racking up numbers or impressing their colleagues, or making friends and alliances.

They offer a consistent, principled message about influence peddling and the impact it has on the poor, the disenfranchised and the quality of representation they don't get, and they shout that message from the rooftops every chance they get! You don't win popularity contests like that. To traditional politicians like Clinton, it comes across as sanctimonious grandstanding, and nobody likes goody two-shoes know- it- all, self-righteous, royal pains- in- the- ass gadflies. But every legislative body desperately needs gadflies to remind them every single day, every single vote, that legislators cannot let those corporate lobbyists ooze and slither around those halls, and in those committees unchecked by an oath, and a duty to remember those constituants that don't have lobbyists oozing and slithering for them.

So when do they assert their power, and get things done? They get them done in committee. They use the bills others are writing, they pick their moments, and shove in an amendment, or get something pulled out and when votes are tight whether in committee or on the floor, and they know Dems need that vote of theirs, or pubs are desperate to get them to abstain it will come with a pricetag!

Trust me, Gadflies are no dumber about politics or how and when to be team players, than anyone else. They have some of the surest seats, and the best incumbency win rates in the business. Look at Sanders re-election campaigns. IN 2012 he won with 71%. In 2018, he won with 67% AS AN INDEPENDENT! That leaves a lot of latitude to negotiate and maneuver politically.

Sanders gets a lot done, whether his name is attached as a primary sponsor or co-sponsor on a lot of bills or not. Sometimes, all his Democratic colleagues want from Sanders, is for him to keep quiet, stay in his seat and not make waves today, on this amendment, so that they can get a couple of progressives to vote for something, they are not super comfortable with. And even then, you can bet, Sanders makes them pay a price for his silence!
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Nice fantasy with not an ounce of proof.

Who is to say that rather than this very efficient gadfly you imagine, Sanders is just ineffective and a pariah who is not likely by anybody? Oh, he gets re-elected? So do hundreds of others. Some districts are easily fooled and just keep voting for the incumbent over and over. It proves nothing.
 
iguanaman said:
Not only that they are so obsessed with Sanders that they will vote for no one else and often are so vindictive they vote for Trump to punish us. I have no use for that behavior, it reminds me of the trumpists. Sanders is not totally innocent of inciting that behavior either. He has already refused to say he will endorse whomever the nominee is. Every other candidate has done that.
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Exactly. Sanders is the Trump of the Left.
 
poweRob said:
I dont even much care for national polls. National polls will sway as the states fall.

You are too emotional to talk to. Sad.
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Oh, you say I write essays... I say it's 143 words. So you abandon that line of attack, and now I'm too emotional... LOL

You no longer want to talk to me, huh? Why, because I showed to you no fewer than 30 polls disproving what you tried to say? Facts are pesky things, aren't they?

Regarding national vs. state polls, if you were to go to the Real Clear Politics site I've recommended to you over and over (despite you saying that I offered no proof; it's not that; it's rather because you don't want to see the proof) you'd notice that among the 30 polls that I quoted, there are all kinds, national, and state.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Oh, you say I write essays... I say it's 143 words. So you abandon that line of attack, and now I'm too emotional... LOL

You no longer want to talk to me, huh? Why, because I showed to you no fewer than 30 polls disproving what you tried to say? Facts are pesky things, aren't they?

Regarding national vs. state polls, if you were to go to the Real Clear Politics site I've recommended to you over and over (despite you saying that I offered no proof; it's not that; it's rather because you don't want to see the proof) you'd notice that among the 30 polls that I quoted, there are all kinds, national, and state.
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Yeah. You're too emotional.
 
poweRob said:
Yeah. You're too emotional.
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I'd rather be too emotional (which I actually am not, though) than an intellectual lightweight who can't put together a coherent argument and needs to resort to personal attacks.
 
GreatNews2night said:
I'd rather be too emotional (which I actually am not, though) than an intellectual lightweight who can't put together a coherent argument and needs to resort to personal attacks.
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Perhaps we should break up for a while.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Nice fantasy with not an ounce of proof.

Who is to say that rather than this very efficient gadfly you imagine, Sanders is just ineffective and a pariah who is not likely by anybody? Oh, he gets re-elected? So do hundreds of others. Some districts are easily fooled and just keep voting for the incumbent over and over. It proves nothing.
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Oh, I think popularity in one's district over a lot of election cycles winning by large margins, definitely proves something about how well he's pleasing his 'boss', and that ain't Clinton, or you who he needs to impress. I don't have any skin in this game, but Hillary sure does. This woman is one very angry, defensive former candidate for President. Not sure I'd use her as a source for proof on her former rival's effectiveness or popularity years after either of them have served together in that Senate. So I think my source is better than yours because mine is setting the standard that needs to be met, and my source is writing the job description for this specific position and my source is the one making out the evaluation every few years.
 
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btthegreat said:
Oh, I think popularity in one's district over a lot of election cycles winning by large margins, definitely proves something about how well he's pleasing his 'boss', and that ain't Clinton, or you who he needs to impress. I don't have any skin in this game, but Hillary sure does. This woman is one very angry, defensive former candidate for President. Not sure I'd use her as a source for proof on her former rival's effectiveness or popularity years after either of them have served together in that Senate. So I think my source is better than yours because mine is setting the standard that needs to be met, and my source is writing the job description for this specific position and my source is the one making out the evaluation every few years.
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Your source is also a small and rather obscure, non-relevant state in terms of national politics. So, don't color me impressed that the old goat seems to be liked by a rather peculiar state where certain ideas get more traction than in most of the country.

All this great record you're talking about didn't help Bernie in the 2016 primaries, which he LOST miserably by millions of popular votes to one of the most unpopular politicians in this nation's history. And don't give me that crap about the DNC and so forth. That's the excuse that Bernie's blind followers like to put forward, ignoring the MILLIONS of Dem primary voters who did NOT want Bernie to win.
 
poweRob said:
Perhaps we should break up for a while.
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We never had a relationship to start with in order to break it up. Don't flatter yourself.

Like I've mentioned before, I experience nothing but contempt for the Bernie or Bust crowd and most of his other naive and misguided followers. I think of your bunch as just a fringe cult that knows zip about real life (as evidenced by your delusional claims, easily proven wrong by facts, like I did in this very thread), and gobble up Bernie's BS which is nothing more than a load of crap, made of vapid, vacuous, and unrealistic populist ideas. As the Trump of the Left, what Bernie promises is just as impossible and out of touch as what Trump has promised in his campaign (Mexico is not paying for that wall...).

So, you want to "break up" with me? Go right ahead. You won't be missed. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
 
What the heck is Bernie running for anyway? Why does he think that he is Presidential material?

I don't like that he isn't a Dem, only when it suits his purposes.

He's another old man ranting and raving, waving his hands, scolding everyone for being bad. That's all I see.

What he says is for another time a bit in the future. I think we need to keep our feet on the ground. We need to fight Trump with substance that people can sink their teeth into. No airy fairy pie in the sky stuff.

I think Amy Klobuchar is that person who can take down Birney and Biden and finally, Trump. Think about it.
 
GreatNews2night said:
We never had a relationship to start with in order to break it up. Don't flatter yourself.

Like I've mentioned before, I experience nothing but contempt for the Bernie or Bust crowd and most of his other naive and misguided followers. I think of your bunch as just a fringe cult that knows zip about real life (as evidenced by your delusional claims, easily proven wrong by facts, like I did in this very thread), and gobble up Bernie's BS which is nothing more than a load of crap, made of vapid, vacuous, and unrealistic populist ideas. As the Trump of the Left, what Bernie promises is just as impossible and out of touch as what Trump has promised in his campaign (Mexico is not paying for that wall...).

So, you want to "break up" with me? Go right ahead. You won't be missed. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
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Don't make me get a restraining order.
 
hermit said:
What the heck is Bernie running for anyway? Why does he think that he is Presidential material?

I don't like that he isn't a Dem, only when it suits his purposes.

He's another old man ranting and raving, waving his hands, scolding everyone for being bad. That's all I see.

What he says is for another time a bit in the future. I think we need to keep our feet on the ground. We need to fight Trump with substance that people can sink their teeth into. No airy fairy pie in the sky stuff.

I think Amy Klobuchar is that person who can take down Birney and Biden and finally, Trump. Think about it.
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Yeah, maybe, but she is not polling well. So, for someone who is interested in keeping your feet on the ground, yours don't seem to be very anchored on the ground if you think that Klobuchar stands a chance.

Anyway, I like what you said about Bernie. So, make sure you stop him by voting for someone who actually has a chance, lest if he wins, the Dems make a historical mistake and give to Trump another four years.
 
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