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AOC brings truth to the Democratic Establishment while celebrating MLK

It means public ownership/control of the means of production.

More accurately, socialism is ‘a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.’

And Democratic socialism is giving the the people who benefit/suffer from such a system the ability to control it.

Which means through government.

Yes, which the people control through a representative democracy.

The people elect the state, and the state owns/controls the means of production and distribution. Just recently Bernie called for the nationalization of all utility companies and internet providers and also called for national rent control - meaning the federal government would control the price of every rental dwelling in the country.

And the people would control the federal government.
 
yeah splintering it and weakening it.

Only the Establishment, which is pathetically weak anyway. The base is more unified than not.

and once regresseives have officially taking over the party it will be sunk.

You’re projecting.

After New Hampshire, but any time prior to that he was 3rd

Time moves in one direction: Forward. And hindsight is 2020.

He might see a bump after Vermont but his faux sophistication only plays there.

Not only is Bernie on top, I think his support is greatly underpolled. He’s much stronger than he already appears. He is more well-liked and most trusted on the issues than any other candidate. Bernie is now also leading among black voters, and prior to that was leading in most diverse support. He has a strong coalition.

Socialism/communism isn't a good idea.

Socialism and communism on are two different things. And people are more populist than they are ideological.
 
It's not about effective vs. ineffective. It's about what one intends to do with one's effectiveness.

And support for the progressive agenda is overwhelming.

If you're asking why people will believe in her promises and vote for her policies, it's because i) a growing number of people recognize that things are getting worse, and ii) people desperately want to believe the bromides she's selling will reverse the decline.

Translation: She’s making an effective argument.

It's the same reason Pres. Obama was elected with "Hope & Change" in 2008,

Which he never delivered on.

and why Pres. Trump was elected with "Make America Great Again" in 2016.

Which he never delivered on.

Americans (Westerners in general) live in a delusional bubble believing that economic, social, and political catastrophes developing for over 70 years can be fixed by "radical new policies" and "new thinking" rather than decades of painful austerity and personal sacrifice.

Please explain this more. How is not addressing problems going to fix the problems? Oh, wait, you think the only problem is the budget?

Any politician who preaches hope to sustain this delusion (which includes both Pres. Trump and Rep. Cortez) is going to be extremely popular. ...at least until the policies are put into practice, the fraud is exposed, and everyone moves on to the next blinding hope.

Cortez hasn’t failed on her agenda.

To the best of my knowledge, there's no electable politician or party in the US whose platform includes even a third of what's realistically needed to halt the economic and social decline. Hence you're limited to choosing how quickly things deteriorate, and to a degree which parts will deteriorate more quickly than others. This is the reality of US federal politics in the age of the self.

One things for sure, austerity solves literally nothing. It doesn’t even fix the budget. You have to spend to grow and solve problems. Otherwise, what’s the point of government?

It's a crummy status quo, I admit. Yet it still beats trillions in new spending, overregulation, botched healthcare fixes, and more of the same garbage foreign policy. Add to this open borders, capital fleeing the country, and (quite possibly) reparations, you've gone from a modest dive to terminal freefall in less than a decade.

So basically you’re on-board with Trump’s agenda, after berating him as a fraud. You just want, in addition to the tax cuts for billionaires, to CUT MORE social programs to balance the budget. Why not run on that and be honest with the American people? Be honest and avoid the ‘hucksterism’ of Trump and AOC. Follow your own advice.

A few years ago I'd have said the progressive Democratic wing was on the side of the angels when it came to getting America out of foreign quagmires, but they've since opposed the withdrawal from Syria, fallen into lockstep with the neocons on Red Scare 2.0 and arming the Ukraine, and even suggested military confrontation with China and North Korea. How anyone can believe they'd make the painful and unpopular decisions to upend America's foreign policy is beyond me.

Again, just run on the unpopular decisions you’re proposing. Decisions which solve nothing, help no one, do nothing for the economy, and make the American people more miserable than they already are.

Can't disagree with you there. But you might want to keep walking instead of piling into Rep. Cortez' bullet train.

I’ll make my own decisions, and I trust my political acumen more than I trust yours. Sorry.
 
More accurately, socialism is ‘a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.’

And Democratic socialism is giving the the people who benefit/suffer from such a system the ability to control it.

Recently Bernie called for the nationalization of all utility companies, the nationalization of all internet providers, and national rent control in order to allow the federal government to control the price of every rental dwelling in the country.

Do you agree with these three proposals? Are they consistent with democratic socialism?

And the people would control the federal government.

The US is a representative democracy. In your view, do the people control the federal government now?
 
Do you even realize that she graduated cum laude in international relations and economics at Boston University?

Yeah, then she was a bartender for the next seven years. Boston U is NOT a prestigious school. So let me ask you again. Do you really think she devised the New Green Deal policy and naturally ascended to the top of the heap in Congress in just a few months because of her intellect?
 
True, AOC is smarter than 90% of the people who criticize her.

aoc-meme.jpg

For 45 dollars, you can get a star named after you from the "international Star Registry". You even get a certificate. Of course there are many others the same star is named after.
 
Please explain this more. How is not addressing problems going to fix the problems? Oh, wait, you think the only problem is the budget?
To answer your first question: I'm saying that right now it's a political impossibility to fix the problems. Your choice is limited to how quickly the situation will continue to deteriorate.

To answer your second question: "economic, social, and political catastrophes" clearly refers to more than just the budget.

One things for sure, austerity solves literally nothing. It doesn’t even fix the budget. You have to spend to grow and solve problems. Otherwise, what’s the point of government?
Spoken like an MMT true believer.

Short answer: you (and like-minded economists) are gravely mistaken. While austerity isn't sufficient ipso facto to remedy the US's economic woes, it's both integral to and necessary for reversing the three biggest issues in that sphere: exploding deficits, unfunded liabilities, and deepening wealth inequality. "Spend[ing] to grow and solve problems" is newspeak for cheap credit, quantitative easing, and neo-Keynesian policies that without fail produce more debt, greater liabilities, greater inequality, and greater systemic risk in the long run.

True, austerity is infeasible since there's no political will for it. But it is the only real solution. The world is going to find that out the hard way.

You just want, in addition to the tax cuts for billionaires, to CUT MORE social programs to balance the budget. Why not run on that and be honest with the American people? Be honest and avoid the ‘hucksterism’ of Trump and AOC. Follow your own advice.
I've been perfectly candid during this discussion.

But if you want it spelled out: The austerity required to fix the US's economic woes involves across-the-board tax hikes, with particularly severe hikes on upper income earners. It involves aggressive cuts to all social programs, a near-total withdrawal from all foreign engagements, aggressive debt reduction, a return of interest rates to at least 5%, a complete unwinding of the Fed's balance sheet since 2008, and a reinstating of Glass-Steagall. In the short- to medium-term, it will result in a stock market crash, a protracted recession, the loss of trillions of dollars in notional asset value, and the bankruptcy of numerous major banks and insurers. But ultimately the patient will survive.

Anything short of this--and stimulus in particular--is tantamount to pumping the patient full of epinephrine and morphine: he'll feel less pain and episodically appear to recover, but the underlying disease will still surely kill him.

Again, just run on the unpopular decisions you’re proposing. Decisions which solve nothing, help no one, do nothing for the economy, and make the American people more miserable than they already are.
The policies are unpopular and bound to make people miserable, but so is the decision to amputate a gangrenous limb. It's still the right decision.

I’ll make my own decisions, and I trust my political acumen more than I trust yours. Sorry.
You've bet the farm on MMT, Sen. Sanders, and Hope & Change 3.0. I don't expect anyone could change your mind at this point.

Time will prove which of us is correct. Technically I win either way, since if I'm wrong it means the neo-Keynesian bromides have actually succeeded in reversing the decline, and I can live with that.
 
Not this again. She doesn't believe that the world will end in 12 years.

It came out of her mouth --

Trump was first to weigh in, joking in a weekend tweet that because of the cold weather, it'd be nice "to have a little of that good old fashioned Global Warming right now!" During an interview the next day Ocasio-Cortez said "the world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change."
Fact-checking Trump, AOC climate claims - CNNPolitics
 
For 45 dollars, you can get a star named after you from the "international Star Registry". You even get a certificate. Of course there are many others the same star is named after.
Actually, the ISR assigns every purchaser a unique star.

There are something like 6 sextillion of them, so we're not going to run out any time soon.
 
you are forming n opinion based on political bias, she is a very bright women

do some homework, it's not hard to Google.

She's a mental midget, but I suppose to a typical democrat she might look smart. That's not saying much about democrats, though.
 
Only the Establishment, which is pathetically weak anyway. The base is more unified than not.
Doubt Americans in vast numbers support socialism.


You’re projecting.
you're not arguing.


Time moves in one direction: Forward. And hindsight is 2020.
so everybody that ever took the lead in New Hampshire took the nomination?

Doubtful.


Not only is Bernie on top, I think his support is greatly underpolled. He’s much stronger than he already appears. He is more well-liked and most trusted on the issues than any other candidate. Bernie is now also leading among black voters, and prior to that was leading in most diverse support. He has a strong coalition.
In new Hampshire.


Socialism and communism on are two different things.
To a small degree yes.
And people are more populist than they are ideological.
Selfish, you mean the people are more selfish. They hate the idea of people having more than them.
 
She's a mental midget, but I suppose to a typical democrat she might look smart. That's not saying much about democrats, though.

This answer shows a political bias stereotype which is void of reason. Very Trumpian,
 
Yeah, then she was a bartender for the next seven years. Boston U is NOT a prestigious school. So let me ask you again. Do you really think she devised the New Green Deal policy and naturally ascended to the top of the heap in Congress in just a few months because of her intellect?

Why is being a bartender a problem?
 
For 45 dollars, you can get a star named after you from the "international Star Registry". You even get a certificate. Of course there are many others the same star is named after.

Are you implying that her degrees are fake?
 
AOC is the future of the Democratic Party and I am ecstatic.



If you want a time-stamp relating to topic header, here you go: YouTube

Bring the fire. People celebrate MLK in retrospect, but he was a very divisive Democratic Socialist. If MLK were alive, he’d be smeared even more than Bernie. I mean, a black socialist criticizing capitalism and causing trouble for the white establishment? Come on. Look at what they did to Capitalist Obama. MLK was vilified at the time and he’d be vilified by the people who give him so much credit for his achievements in retrospect.

This is what I mean by ‘dragging you kicking and screaming towards progress’. We’ll get there and the children of those who are criticizing Bernie will celebrate him when he achieves real change for people. Just like they did with MLK.


Stalin/Hitler/Mao also dragged people 'kicking and screaming toward progress'.

When the something is described as ‘killed more than cancer’ it’s usually an exaggeration. When that phrase is used to describe Left Wing Collectivist Ideology it’s not, or at least not much of one.
 
This answer shows a political bias stereotype which is void of reason. Very Trumpian,

I already put forth the reasoning -- you're just too lazy to read it.
 
View attachment 67272327

Truly incredible that the GOP has no sense of humor and doesn't understand much.

LOL

She made the comment more than once, and if you watch the video, you can tell she meant it.

She's just backpedaling after showing everyone how stupid she truly is.
 
LOL

She made the comment more than once, and if you watch the video, you can tell she meant it.

She's just backpedaling after showing everyone how stupid she truly is.

Oh God. You're really serious? :shock:
 
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