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AOC brings truth to the Democratic Establishment while celebrating MLK

AOC was relating comments given to her by a detainee at the border.

She said she believed them.

On garbage disposals. She says she’s never had one. Never seen one. So what? I didn’t have one growing up either. Don’t have one now. BFD.

I didn't have a boat when I was growing up - but I knew what one was.

None of that makes her ignorant.

Those are just two examples of her ignorance. She offers more virtually every time she opens her mouth. Like when she said the three chambers of government are the Senate, the House, and the Presidency. A middle schooler knows the correct answer.
 
Oh, she's smart all right. Just wait 'til she distributes the proceeds from that Amazon tax credit.
 
Saying that we are all going to die in 12 years due to climate change is not being that intelligent.

Not die, approach the point of no return. Which is a mainstream view in science, not in politics. But as with anything complicated, this issue requires nuance. I'd rather have alarmist view on climate rhetoric than whatever the **** this is:

 
She scares conservatives in general, which is why Fox News has devoted significant effort in trying (unsuccessfully) to damage her.
She scares conservatives because implementing even a handful of her suggested policies would irreversibly damage the nation. Yet we behold threads like this popping up, proclaiming "AOC is the future of the Democratic Party and I am ecstatic."

Rep. Cortez has shown herself to be manipulative, reckless, frightfully ignorant on a host of issues (all of which are admittedly par for the course in politics these days) but brings the added threat of immigration, environmental, educational, and tax policies that will decimate the prospserity of the nation if implemented.

I have no doubt she earnestly wants to do good and believes she's doing good, but the road to hell, as they say, is paved with good intentions. If she's your best answer to the GOP's festering neoconservatism, you're doomed. Americans will have to choose between the car crash and cancer. Rep. Cortez is the car crash.
 
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Do you know how many Americans live in big inner cities without modern conveniences such as a garbage disposal. I know this because my son lived in the Bronx, NY, and OAC also lived in Bronx and Queens and trust me when I say this because I know --- I would say that 99.9% of those living in 'the projects' have never in their lives seen a garbage disposal in their kitchen.

There isn't the merest splinter of a reason to "trust" anything you say, especially when it's something you say you "know."
 
This is what I mean by ‘dragging you kicking and screaming towards progress’. We’ll get there and the children of those who are criticizing Bernie will celebrate him when he achieves real change for people. Just like they did with MLK.

Oh I don't know. What people like Bernie are fighting for isn't just an end results it's method for achieving it. I want the same results as Bernie, but I'm sorry to say I think if he ever does things the way he wants you're going to find that a lot of it isn't as popular and awesome as you think it would be.

A lot of countries get away with things like a Single Payers system for example largely due to the fact that America is still a free market system, but if we go down the single payer road it could blow everything up. So much of the innovation that we get in the medical industry comes from American companies and their drugs and procedures that they develop are then stolen by these countries with single payer systems. A lot of these countries don't need much in terms of an FDA because they know ours cleared the drug already. They just steal the formula and produce a cheap generic, but the RnD necessary to bring it to market is covered by the United States.

They also don't have our military budget. We are basically NATO ourselves. That allows many other countries to provide these benefits without taxing their people up the ass.

But more importantly, and I don't think there's any other way to put this, but America has a lot more assholes in it. Just look at what piece of **** Republicans like Scott Walker did to teachers unions while Governor of Wisconsin. You're assuming that a nice guy like Bernie will always be in office and in control of your Medicare for All program, but that's not going to happen. Someday whether we like it or not some piece of **** like Paul Ryan is going to get himself elected President and he's going to put some piece of **** like Betsy DeVos in charge of your healthcare. When that happens you will not have another choice. They will use the monopoly you have created to screw doctors, screw nurses, and screw patients in high minority areas in order to save money.

What are they going to do then? Are Emergency Room Doctors going to go on Strike to get better pay? We can't have the entire nursing staff of major hospitals walking out of the job to demand a pay raise here.

Bernie likes to say he'll use the power of medicare for all to "negotiate" lower drug prices. What he's really saying is that he's going to give himself a monopoly on drug prices and force drug companies to accept whatever the hell he thinks is fair whether it's based in reality or not. Why should Pfizer keep making drugs and investing in new treatments if they can't make a profit off of it?

While I agree with the end goals of the Bernie people I fear that too many of you don't seem to understand the core fundamental cause of the problem. You just blindly hate capitalism and corporations without truly understanding why they make some of the choices they make. It's not that their flat out evil it's that they are in competition. Competition is generally a good thing and it does have a lot of benefits. You need rules for fair play, and you need good referees that will enforce them, but eliminating competition all together is step too far.
 
Funny but true. Socialism/Communism/Marxism only successfully exists at the tribal/village level. Once it goes state or nation-wide, it falters due to human nature.

Most of the world has succeeded with some degree of Democratic Socialism. If we wanted to go full Tankie, Communism brought China and Russia from the third world to rival the United States. Bolivia got itself out of extreme poverty with Socialism, and Venezula was on the up-and-up until the price of oil tanked. If we are truly worried about "human nature" tanking economies, Capitalism is currently failing millions of Americans.

Specifically "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". This is why, despite all of its flaws, the best system humans have brung about is a Constitutional representative democracy fueled by a regulated capitalist economy.

I would argue that America isn't a regulated capitalist country due to the fact that the "absolute power" is being handed to the billionaire class. Almost everything wrong with the world can be lead back to billionaires trying to accumulate more wealth.
 
Most of the world has succeeded with some degree of Democratic Socialism. If we wanted to go full Tankie, Communism brought China and Russia from the third world to rival the United States. Bolivia got itself out of extreme poverty with Socialism, and Venezula was on the up-and-up until the price of oil tanked. If we are truly worried about "human nature" tanking economies, Capitalism is currently failing millions of Americans.

I would argue that America isn't a regulated capitalist country due to the fact that the "absolute power" is being handed to the billionaire class. Almost everything wrong with the world can be lead back to billionaires trying to accumulate more wealth.

Democratic Socialism is not the same thing. As the Socialists looooove to point out, the US has some aspects of Socialism, specifically welfare and Medicare. I'm speaking of pure socialism as several on this forum advocate.

Notice I said "regulated Capitalism". The problem in the US is that Capitalism is growing far too unregulated and toward laissez-faire capitalism. Just because a system needs correction doesn't mean that it should be scrapped and switched to the completely polar opposite.
 
Not only are they far-right in general, I have a hard time thinking of a single, reliable moderate.



‘Far left’ in America is ‘just left’ in virtually every other nation.



Immigration Reform
Medicare For All
Green New Deal
Criminal Justice Reform
Minimum Wage
Worker Protections
Voting Rights Protection / Expansion
Debt-Free Education

I asked you for three, I gave you eight without even breathing hard. Let’s split the difference. Give me one idea from the right-wing, attached to a BIG PROBLEM (e.g. climate change), that’s actually good. Just one idea.



The same way you pay for everything in America. And generally doing so — actually addressing these problems — is far cheaper than letting them grow in size. Either taxes are increased — disproportionately against the wealthy — or the middle class and working poor take the cost burden in other ways. The world is on fire. Who pays for it? The cost of healthcare is disgusting, assuming you can even afford it. Who pays for it? Students have unshakeable debt that follows them into their graves. Who pays for it? The working class is often ~$500 away from going into debt. THEY can’t pay for it.



By making the argument. Most of the country is already there, even in red states.

Many conservatives are for immigration reform and criminal justice reform. Reagan after all signed off on amnesty for 3 million or so immigrants. Do not judge Republicans and conservatives generally by the boobs in office now.

I agree that the healthcare system is a mess - it’s not a free market and treating it as such and applying free market solutions to it are stupid. Single payer may be a decent fix though I think the problems go deeper than that, but even single payer has issues. What do you with all those insurance co employees who are now out of work? What do you do about doctors who’ve taken on massive debt to pay for their educations but now don’t have the income to pay those loans back?

And how will you find it? “The way we always do” isn’t an answer it’s a cop out. Medicare for all will cost about 25-30 Trillion dollars over 10 years. Where specifically is it coming from?

Green New Deal? Just a bunch of ideas with no detail on how it’s paid for and how disruptions are dealt with. I’m all for renewable power as are many people. But you need to do the hard work of actually figuring how to implement them. Where’s the hard work with the Green New Deal?
 
She scares conservatives because implementing even a handful of her suggested policies would irreversibly damage the nation. Yet we behold threads like this popping up, proclaiming "AOC is the future of the Democratic Party and I am ecstatic."

Why would she scare conservatives if she wasn’t effective? And how could she be effective if the Republicans OR Centrist Democrats had a viable alternative message to counter her with?

Rep. Cortez has shown herself to be manipulative, reckless, frightfully ignorant on a host of issues (all of which are admittedly par for the course in politics these days) but brings the added threat of immigration, environmental, educational, and tax policies that will decimate the prospserity of the nation if implemented.

Alternatively we have Republican ideas which... um... what are they? Where are they? Tax cuts for billionaires, deregulation, dismantling healthcare, utterly garbage foreign policy... and... and?

I have no doubt she earnestly wants to do good and believes she's doing good, but the road to hell, as they say, is paved with good intentions. If she's your best answer to the GOP's festering neoconservatism, you're doomed. Americans will have to choose between the car crash and cancer. Rep. Cortez is the car crash.

I have no doubt that Republicans are honestly malevolent and don’t believe that what they are doing is good. And we’re already on the road to hell.
 
She said she believed them.



I didn't have a boat when I was growing up - but I knew what one was.



Those are just two examples of her ignorance. She offers more virtually every time she opens her mouth. Like when she said the three chambers of government are the Senate, the House, and the Presidency. A middle schooler knows the correct answer.

Specific to the actual points you raised.

She said she’d never seen a garbage disposal not that she didn’t know what one was. And btw they were illegal in NYC until the mid 90s for fear of what they might do to the city sewer system so her trepidation about them is actually grounded in something real.

As to the toilet thing. Were you there? Did you hear the exchange first hand? Do you have a transcript? If not I’d suggest you have nothing on which to base your conclusion.

The three branches comment? Record someone’s words enough and you find everyone says regrettable things on occasion. There are tons of clips of both Bushes saying dumbass things now and again. BFD. Basing your opinion of someone on a few verbal slip ups or out of context quotes is stupid.
 
Democratic Socialism is not the same thing. As the Socialists looooove to point out, the US has some aspects of Socialism, specifically welfare and Medicare. I'm speaking of pure socialism as several on this forum advocate.

Notice I said "regulated Capitalism". The problem in the US is that Capitalism is growing far too unregulated and toward laissez-faire capitalism. Just because a system needs correction doesn't mean that it should be scrapped and switched to the completely polar opposite.

Democratic Socialism is just socialism obtained through democratic means. Which ideally won't devolve into authoritarian ideologies like Leninism or Maoism.

So then what would be your proposal to say healthcare reform? As it stands, America's healthcare system is an absolute failure amongst the other developed countries. I don't see how anything less than publicizing healthcare as a basic right would be effective.
 
Many conservatives are for immigration reform and criminal justice reform.

Yes, his name was John McCain and he’s dead. Trump wiped his ass with the Republican autopsy from 2012. What’s their current plan? Cutting legal immigration and gearing immigration policy to attract people from Norway? Muslim ban?

Some Republicans are just coming around now to what progressives have been saying about criminal justice in the 1970s and 1990s. And I said progressives, not Democrats.

Reagan after all signed off on amnesty for 3 million or so immigrants. Do not judge Republicans and conservatives generally by the boobs in office now.

The party of Reagan is dead, and Reagan was also garbage.

I agree that the healthcare system is a mess - it’s not a free market and treating it as such and applying free market solutions to it are stupid. Single payer may be a decent fix though I think the problems go deeper than that, but even single payer has issues.

Every big solution creates problems. Such as...

What do you with all those insurance co employees who are now out of work?

I don’t know. What do we do with all the dog kickers when we eliminate the dog kicking business? Seriously, that’s a bad argument. Hundreds of thousands shouldn’t suffer because the system that MAKES them suffer might lose some jobs. Also, Bernie’s plan has a transition mechanism to train those employees.

What do you do about doctors who’ve taken on massive debt to pay for their educations but now don’t have the income to pay those loans back?

Seriously?

And how will you find it? “The way we always do” isn’t an answer it’s a cop out. Medicare for all will cost about 25-30 Trillion dollars over 10 years.

Which is cheaper than if the current system continues.

Where specifically is it coming from?

Tax payers. And it will cover everyone, save thousands of lives a year, prevent tens of thousands of bankruptcies, make America healthier with a focus on preventative medicines, etc, etc., etc. The American people aren’t stupid. They realize that Medicare for All is a sweet deal, even if it raises taxes.

Green New Deal? Just a bunch of ideas with no detail on how it’s paid for and how disruptions are dealt with.

Yes, it’s a goal. An agenda.

But you need to do the hard work of actually figuring how to implement them.

Exactly.

Where’s the hard work with the Green New Deal?

The hard work is what we’re doing right now. The Green New Deal is the direction; the agenda. Something to work towards. Getting the right people elected to even scan the agenda is step one. The problems are clear, progressives have them on their radar, right-wing conservatives flatly don’t. Nor for that matter do centrist corporate Democrats.
 
Democratic Socialism is just socialism obtained through democratic means. Which ideally won't devolve into authoritarian ideologies like Leninism or Maoism.

More importantly, Democratic socialism is allowing people to have a say the direction of the government; how it collects and allocates public resources. It’s the antithesis of a dictatorship, oligarchy, or kleptocracy. If corporate money were out of politics, we’d pretty much already be there. Before big donors started buying politicians, the Republican Party was to the far left of where the Democrats are now.

So then what would be your proposal to say healthcare reform? As it stands, America's healthcare system is an absolute failure amongst the other developed countries. I don't see how anything less than publicizing healthcare as a basic right would be effective.

Exactly. Democrats implemented best idea healthcare reform the Republicans had. It was the Bob Dole plan, the alternative to socialized medicine. Republicans ran against their own idea and beat the Democrats like a drum in the 2010 midterms. Democrats wasted their super-majority on a ‘compromise’ proposal that Republicans weaponized public opposition to.

Now what? What solutions do Republicans have at this point? Trump campaigned on this:



“Great Healthcare for much less money...” - Donald Trump, 2016

Let’s hear the plan, Republicans.
 
AOC is the future of the Democratic Party and I am ecstatic.



If you want a time-stamp relating to topic header, here you go: YouTube

Bring the fire. People celebrate MLK in retrospect, but he was a very divisive Democratic Socialist. If MLK were alive, he’d be smeared even more than Bernie. I mean, a black socialist criticizing capitalism and causing trouble for the white establishment? Come on. Look at what they did to Capitalist Obama. MLK was vilified at the time and he’d be vilified by the people who give him so much credit for his achievements in retrospect.

This is what I mean by ‘dragging you kicking and screaming towards progress’. We’ll get there and the children of those who are criticizing Bernie will celebrate him when he achieves real change for people. Just like they did with MLK.


Im gonna have to disagree about the connotation of MLK being a socialist. Even well loved republicans capitalists have social programs that anyone could spin to make them sound more socialist, take a look at Theodore Roosevelt and Milton Freidman.
 
What is the GOP doing in Florida these days you ask?

16_30.jpg
 
There isn't the merest splinter of a reason to "trust" anything you say, especially when it's something you say you "know."

As 'little donny daddy-pants' would say, "I love it!". That's awesome because it means that you can't handle the truth. You wouldn't know truth if it invaded your body and mind like the body snatchers.
 
She scares conservatives in general, which is why Fox News has devoted significant effort in trying (unsuccessfully) to damage her. She keeps hitting it out of the park because she’s frankly better than the whole lot of them.




YET !!! Fox has asked her to be on Fox Network Shows many many times, and she ALWAYS turns the offer down. WHY ?? She knows how DUMB she would look trying some of her out of space answers. Yes, she is THAT UNKNOWING......
 
Im gonna have to disagree about the connotation of MLK being a socialist. Even well loved republicans capitalists have social programs that anyone could spin to make them sound more socialist, take a look at Theodore Roosevelt and Milton Freidman.

Allegedly, MLK identified himself as Socialist privately to close friends and family, has openly said he was "openly Anti-capitalistic" and has said in letters "I[Martin Luther King Jr], am more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic.”
 
Democratic Socialism is just socialism obtained through democratic means. ....

....sooooo laissez-faire capitalism is just capitalism through laissez-faire? Fine, but I disagree.


Good luck selling that poppycock to most Americans. :)

poppycock.png
 
AOC is one of the dumbest legislators on the block. It's unbelievable the things she says.

I think she may possibly be as dumb as this democrat which I previously didn't think was possible. No this is not a comedy skit. This is who democrats think are intelligent.
YouTube
 
Specific to the actual points you raised.

She said she’d never seen a garbage disposal not that she didn’t know what one was. And btw they were illegal in NYC until the mid 90s for fear of what they might do to the city sewer system so her trepidation about them is actually grounded in something real.

Dude, she took the video and posted it on her Instagram. You watch and then tell me she knew what it was.



As to the toilet thing. Were you there? Did you hear the exchange first hand? Do you have a transcript? If not I’d suggest you have nothing on which to base your conclusion.

The three branches comment? Record someone’s words enough and you find everyone says regrettable things on occasion. There are tons of clips of both Bushes saying dumbass things now and again. BFD. Basing your opinion of someone on a few verbal slip ups or out of context quotes is stupid.

Again -- listen to her own words. Around the 45 second mark. It's the exact quote I posted.

 
I think she may possibly be as dumb as this democrat which I previously didn't think was possible. No this is not a comedy skit. This is who democrats think are intelligent.
YouTube



LOL -- okay that guy has AOC beat. Where the heck does the democratic party come up with these morons?
 
LOL -- okay that guy has AOC beat. Where the heck does the democratic party come up with these morons?
These are the well educated people that are supposedly smarter than us. I don't know about you but even when I was a child I never thought islands were going to flip over. It must have been my poor education as a child on what Islands actually were. Now que the lefties who will no doubt try to defend this guy.
 
You must be projecting. After both parties bloviated at one hearing last year, saw her ask few useful questions, using a fraction of the time allotted to her. Al Franken was like that, tho he probably used all his time.
 
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