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NY Times endorses Warren and Klobuchar

tres borrachos said:
If you think that's misogynistic, then I'm right there with you! My knee jerked when I thought about it. It wouldn't sail. The country is ready for a female POTUS and even a female VPOTUS. But it isn't ready for each one at the same time. Just isn't.
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I disagree. I think it would be really novel and a big hit.

That said they are really different and would not be compatible IMHO.
 
Surrealistik said:
I think that would be the equivalent of handing the election to Trump, especially with Klobuchar at the top of the ticket. As I've said elsewhere, she's about as close to a full on rehash of Hillary as you can get in this current primary field, except with the possibility of being even less charismatic. It's as close as you can get to doing the exact same failed strategy and hoping that it'll (somehow) work out this time; I mean you must really expect Booker to make the difference vis a vis Tim Kaine.

Honestly, why would anyone in their right mind think she could get the left onside, nevermind galvanized and motivated? Not only are her positions essentially anathema among those within the primary field, but she doesn't have the raw charisma to compensate either.
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I'm sorry, comparing Klobuchar to Clinton it the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. They are so different it's striking.
 
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EnigmaO01 said:
I'm sorry, comparing Klobuchar to Clinton it the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. They are so different it's striking.
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They're both ardent centrists, they both have a deficit of charisma and nothing but contempt and skepticism for the progressive/FDR wing of the party, they both have no discernible plan to get said progressives on side, nor does either have an ambitious and motivating platform: of Amy's entire slew of policy proposals, the only thing that could be considered anywhere close to ambitious is her infrastructure proposals; everything else is pure prosaic incrementalism.

I'm not claiming they're 1 : 1 obviously, but of the candidates in this field as I stated, yeah, she's definitely the closest; who would you suggest is nearer to Clinton if not Klobuchar?
 
Moot said:
There's not a lot of individual state polling...and some states don't do any at all. So you kinda have to work with what there is.
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There'll be plenty of state polling in the lead up to Iowa, so no worries there; again, we'll see if there's confirmation.
 
Moot said:
Actually, I'm a registered Independent Liberal. Warren and Bernie's policies are too extreme even for moderate democrats...which btw far outnumber progressives in the party. The sooner the extreme left realize that, the sooner we can all coalesce around a normal candidate that CAN get elected and beat Trump..and Russia.

A Klobuchar/Booker ticket sounds great to me. They're young, smart, moderate and can get the women and black votes that helped put Obama in office.
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Could Klobuchar be switched for Buttigieg? He has the Midwestern connection and should be able to hold the support of women who don't want to vote for Trump.
 
Surrealistik said:
There'll be plenty of state polling in the lead up to Iowa, so no worries there; again, we'll see if there's confirmation.
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I looked but didn't see many and the lead up to the Iowa caucus is now.
 
Diesel said:
Could Klobuchar be switched for Buttigieg? He has the Midwestern connection and should be able to hold the support of women who don't want to vote for Trump.
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Buttigieg is having trouble getting the black vote because of something he did while mayor. And if he doesn't have the black vote that means he doesn't have the black women's vote...who are a very strong block in the democrat party. I don't think they'd vote for him in a general election...I think they'd stay home. But then, I don't see what Blacks see in Biden, either...other than he was Obama's VP. But Obama didn't do that much for blacks...so I don't see their attraction to Biden. Obama hasn't endorsed him, either.

Klobuchar has the Midwest connection more than Buttigieg, imo. She won over Wisconsin farmers in a state that voted for Trump. Buttigieg never won a statewide election.
 
Moot said:
Buttigieg is having trouble getting the black vote because of something he did while mayor. And if he doesn't have the black vote that means he doesn't have the black women's vote...who are a very strong block in the democrat party. I don't think they'd vote for him in a general election...I think they'd stay home. But then, I don't see what Blacks see in Biden, either...other than he was Obama's VP. But Obama didn't do that much for blacks...so I don't see their attraction to Biden. Obama hasn't endorsed him, either.

Klobuchar has the Midwest connection more than Buttigieg, imo. She won over Wisconsin farmers in a state that voted for Trump. Buttigieg never won a statewide election.
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This. Without the black vote, no Democrat can win in November, and you are correct, no way Buttigieg can garner the black vote. Personally, I like the guy, but he is grossly under-experienced and I don't think he can possibly win if he's the nominee. Nonetheless, I'm gonna vote, and vote democratic, no matter who ends up there.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
I'm sorry, comparing Klobuchar to Clinton it the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. They are so different it's striking.
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Bernie Bros like Surrealistik are determined to re-elect trump. Notice how he and the rest of the regressive left rarely if ever criticize trump. Notice how trump ALWAYS praises Sanders, even when Sanders ‘feigns’ criticizing trump. trump wants his McGovern in Sanders.

Bernie Sanders — BS — and his Sandanistas have zero in common with the FDR wing and have been trashing the Democratic Party for 50 years. They are certainly the most unreliable voting bloc of the ‘left’ since 2000 and Nader.

Independent Socialist Sanders and his back-stabbing campaign staff like Jeff Weaver and supporters continue to trash EVERY other REAL Democrat, giving trump plenty of new ad material, let alone playing Sanders’s greatest hits against Democrats.

trump has 50 years of dirt on Sanders he can’t wait to use on Sanders if BS is the nominee, just as soon as the convention is over.
 
Moot said:
Buttigieg is having trouble getting the black vote because of something he did while mayor. And if he doesn't have the black vote that means he doesn't have the black women's vote...who are a very strong block in the democrat party. I don't think they'd vote for him in a general election...I think they'd stay home. But then, I don't see what Blacks see in Biden, either...other than he was Obama's VP. But Obama didn't do that much for blacks...so I don't see their attraction to Biden. Obama hasn't endorsed him, either.

Klobuchar has the Midwest connection more than Buttigieg, imo. She won over Wisconsin farmers in a state that voted for Trump. Buttigieg never won a statewide election.
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I meant leaving Booker on a ticket with Buttigieg instead of Klobuchar. Klobuchar's support with black voters (58-4 over Trump) is virtually identical to Buttigieg's (57-4) (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/11/buttigiegs-black-voter-problem-by-numbers/), so she's not going to bring in the black woman vote any more than Buttigieg is unless she has some advantage with women that Buttigieg doesn't. I don't think she does. I think many of the women who want to vote against Trump who would hesitate to vote for Buttigieg but not Klobuchar are evangelicals. If Booker increases Buttigieg's appeal among black voters, including evangelical women, then Buttigieg is at least as desirable a candidate as Klobuchar.
 
DiAnna said:
This. Without the black vote, no Democrat can win in November, and you are correct, no way Buttigieg can garner the black vote. Personally, I like the guy, but he is grossly under-experienced and I don't think he can possibly win if he's the nominee. Nonetheless, I'm gonna vote, and vote democratic, no matter who ends up there.
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So will I...but I can't speak for the black vote. I saw the candidates were all marching arm in arm to honor MLKjr., today. But other than that, I haven't seen any of them reach out to the black community.
But I did see Warren cuddling up to Bernie, so I guess they're friends again. Those two need to get a room. lol
 
DiAnna said:
This. Without the black vote, no Democrat can win in November, and you are correct, no way Buttigieg can garner the black vote. Personally, I like the guy, but he is grossly under-experienced and I don't think he can possibly win if he's the nominee. Nonetheless, I'm gonna vote, and vote democratic, no matter who ends up there.
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Klobuchar polls the same as Buttigieg does among black voters.
 
Diesel said:
I meant leaving Booker on a ticket with Buttigieg instead of Klobuchar. Klobuchar's support with black voters (58-4 over Trump) is virtually identical to Buttigieg's (57-4) (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/11/buttigiegs-black-voter-problem-by-numbers/), so she's not going to bring in the black woman vote any more than Buttigieg is unless she has some advantage with women that Buttigieg doesn't. I don't think she does. I think many of the women who want to vote against Trump who would hesitate to vote for Buttigieg but not Klobuchar are evangelicals. If Booker increases Buttigieg's appeal among black voters, including evangelical women, then Buttigieg is at least as desirable a candidate as Klobuchar.
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Sounds like Booker is the bait to get the black vote....but what do blacks really think about Booker? Why didn't they support him over Biden? If they didn't support Booker then why would they support Buttigieg who they have publicly scorned and rejected? I don't think Buttigieg will ever get the black vote...so that rules him out...and that works in Klobuchar's favor.
 
Diesel said:
I meant leaving Booker on a ticket with Buttigieg instead of Klobuchar. Klobuchar's support with black voters (58-4 over Trump) is virtually identical to Buttigieg's (57-4) (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/11/buttigiegs-black-voter-problem-by-numbers/), so she's not going to bring in the black woman vote any more than Buttigieg is unless she has some advantage with women that Buttigieg doesn't. I don't think she does. I think many of the women who want to vote against Trump who would hesitate to vote for Buttigieg but not Klobuchar are evangelicals. If Booker increases Buttigieg's appeal among black voters, including evangelical women, then Buttigieg is at least as desirable a candidate as Klobuchar.
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The WaPo article said Klobuchar doesn't yet have the name recognition among black voters...but Buttigieg does and it's not good. The article hit almost every point I did why Buttigieg won't get the black vote...including that they would rather stay home than vote for him in the general. Without their vote, the Dems don't stand a chance.

In this chart...notice the white woman beats the gay man, the old man and the billionaire among black voters....and she beats them all in enthusiasm, including the white man. Winning. lol


imrs.php
 
Moot said:
Sounds like Booker is the bait to get the black vote....but what do blacks really think about Booker? Why didn't they support him over Biden? If they didn't support Booker then why would they support Buttigieg who they have publicly scorned and rejected? I don't think Buttigieg will ever get the black vote...so that rules him out...and that works in Klobuchar's favor.
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I'm responding to your comment:

"A Klobuchar/Booker ticket sounds great to me. They're young, smart, moderate and can get the women and black votes that helped put Obama in office."

When I replace Klobuchar with Buttigeg, it reads the same way. Klobuchar doesn't have an advantage over Buttigieg with black voters, so if Booker is bait to the black vote for Buttigieg, then he is for Klobuchar too. If Booker is no advantage among black voters for Klobuchar, then Klobuchar and Buttigieg are in the exact same position, which neither rules him out nor works in her favor.
 
Moot said:
The WaPo article said Klobuchar doesn't yet have the name recognition among black voters...but Buttigieg does and it's not good. The article hit almost every point I did why Buttigieg won't get the black vote...including that they would rather stay home than vote for him in the general. Without their vote, the Dems don't stand a chance.

In this chart...notice the white woman beats the gay man, the old man and the billionaire among black voters....and she beats them all in enthusiasm, including the white man. Winning. lol


imrs.php
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Is your position then that Klobuchar will eventually attract votes from black people that she's not attracting now?

The chart you shared is disheartening. It looks like a textbook figure of identity politics. I'm not comparing a man who has no characteristic other than being gay to a woman who has no characteristic other than being white. I'm comparing Buttigieg to Klobuchar.
 
Diesel said:
I'm responding to your comment:

"A Klobuchar/Booker ticket sounds great to me. They're young, smart, moderate and can get the women and black votes that helped put Obama in office."

When I replace Klobuchar with Buttigeg, it reads the same way. Klobuchar doesn't have an advantage over Buttigieg with black voters, so if Booker is bait to the black vote for Buttigieg, then he is for Klobuchar too. If Booker is no advantage among black voters for Klobuchar, then Klobuchar and Buttigieg are in the exact same position, which neither rules him out nor works in her favor.
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I think she does have the advantage because one, she doesn't have the bad blood with black voters that Buttigieg has....and two, the polling shows that a white woman would beat a gay man by double digits among black voters...and three, with Buttigieg, blacks are more likely to stay home and with Klobuchar they're not.
 
Moot said:
I think she does have the advantage because one, she doesn't have the bad blood with black voters that Buttigieg has....and two, the polling shows that a white woman would beat a gay man by double digits among black voters...and three, with Buttigieg, blacks are more likely to stay home and with Klobuchar they're not.
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The polling shows that some white woman would beat some gay man by double digits among black voters. The polling also shows that Klobuchar beats Buttigieg in head-to-head contests with Trump by one point. You say that Buttigieg can't increase his appeal among black voters (although Booker had something to do with the desirability of a Klobuchar ticket), so you must be assuming that Klobuchar's ability to attract votes from black people will increase as she gains name recognition among them. That's certainly possible as is almost anything, as history has shown us.
 
Diesel said:
The polling shows that some white woman would beat some gay man by double digits among black voters. The polling also shows that Klobuchar beats Buttigieg in head-to-head contests with Trump by one point. You say that Buttigieg can't increase his appeal among black voters (although Booker had something to do with the desirability of a Klobuchar ticket), so you must be assuming that Klobuchar's ability to attract votes from black people will increase as she gains name recognition among them. That's certainly possible as is almost anything, as history has shown us.
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I don't know if it's assuming in as much as it's just educated guessing based on the evidence and polling. But as long as Biden is still polling high among black voters it's kind of a moot point, because they aren't looking at anybody else.
 
Moot said:
So will I...but I can't speak for the black vote. I saw the candidates were all marching arm in arm to honor MLKjr., today. But other than that, I haven't seen any of them reach out to the black community.
But I did see Warren cuddling up to Bernie, so I guess they're friends again. Those two need to get a room. lol
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black voters tend to be one of the most moderate blocs of the Dems and as the party keeps going farther left,I wonder when that bloc will start to crumble in its support for the Dems
 
Moot said:
I don't know if it's assuming in as much as it's just educated guessing based on the evidence and polling. But as long as Biden is still polling high among black voters it's kind of a moot point, because they aren't looking at anybody else.
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The spread matters. Historically Dems get around 90% This year Trump is polling 34% which is a big bite out of Dems safe vote.
 
TurtleDude said:
black voters tend to be one of the most moderate blocs of the Dems and as the party keeps going farther left,I wonder when that bloc will start to crumble in its support for the Dems
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I think black women are too imbedded in the democrat party to stop supporting it. They want more power, not less...and they won't get it in the Republican party that's for sure.

Black women are the new movers and shakers of the democrat party...imo. Haven't you noticed that they're the ones that are out there organizing and registering people to vote? The women's march was organized by a black woman. BLM was started by a black woman. ACORN was mostly black women registering people to vote. Black women appear regularly on MSNBC and one even has her own show. They're getting elected to office all over the country. A black woman almost won the Governorship of Georgia. So don't underestimate the rise of black women in democrat politics...they're a force to be reckoned with among Democrats and more power to them. Harriet Tubman really should be on the $20 bill.
 
Rogue Valley said:
New York Times editorial board endorses Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar for Democratic nomination

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I'm still reserving judgement on which Democrat candidate I prefer. Let's see how Iowa fleshes out.

But to be honest, I'll support whomever is victorious at the Democrat convention. Four more years of Trump would be catastrophic for this country, and for the Constitution.
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Male candidates were invited to talk with the board making the decision but they turned it down, paving the way for a woman to be chosen, contrary to Bernie's expectations.
 
Bullseye said:
The spread matters. Historically Dems get around 90% This year Trump is polling 34% which is a big bite out of Dems safe vote.
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The Washington Post-Ipsos poll is the most recent and it shows the complete opposite...

"...More than 8 in 10 black Americans say they believe Trump is a racist and that he has made racism a bigger problem in the country. Nine in 10 disapprove of his job performance overall.

The pessimism goes well beyond assessments of the president. A 65 percent majority of African Americans say it is a “bad time” to be a black person in America. That view is widely shared by clear majorities of black adults across income, generational and political lines. By contrast, 77 percent of black Americans say it is a “good time” to be a white person, with a wide majority saying white people don’t understand the discrimination faced by black Americans...."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...4b705c-37de-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html​

Trump lost the black vote when he told four American women of color to go back to where they came from.
 
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