Abuse of power not impeachable? Think again...

Aside from abuse of power being an article of impeachment for both of last 2 impeachment processes, I think Schiff said it best in response this latest ridiculous Republican position...

The logic of that absurdist position that's being now adopted by the President is, he could give away the state of Alaska. He could withhold execution of sanctions on Russia for interfering in the last election to induce or coerce Russia to interfere in the next one

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Slavister said:

Aside from abuse of power being an article of impeachment for both of last 2 impeachment processes, I think Schiff said it best in response this latest ridiculous Republican position...

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Abuse of power, depending on the seriousness of the abuse, can be the worst offense a President commits. When Franklin said, "You have a republic if you can keep it," abuse of power by which a President elevates himself in a way that threatens our democratic institutions is what he meant. In this context, Clinton's sex perjury was meaningless. Trump's blocking an act of Congress in an attempt to coerce a foreign government into scandalizing a rival in the next election fits right in.

Schiff will get the chance to make his case before the senate. Only now you will have to sit through a legal rebuttal.

Slavister said:

Aside from abuse of power being an article of impeachment for both of last 2 impeachment processes, I think Schiff said it best in response this latest ridiculous Republican position...

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Meanwhile...back at the ranch...same lefties golf clapped for Obamas phone and pen.

Nixon's 'Abuse of Powers' ( part of the impeachment articles ) were crimes. not Trumps

10 Crimes of the Nixon Administration
Richard Nixon’s crimes went far beyond Watergate. His abuse of power, his use of the IRS, FBI and CIA against his perceived enemies, his obstruction of justice, payment of hush money, maintenance of an enemies list, are just a few of the crimes he committed while President and while trying to become President. Most of his criminal activities are forgotten, other than the Watergate scandal, itself not one crime, but a lengthy series of criminal behavior by the President and his underlings.

There's a reason the constitution puts Congress first in the branches among 'equals', and assigned such strong powers to it - such as all spending power (such as money for Ukraine aid or the Pentagon, not the 'wall'), all power to start war (not for a president to start one assassinating top foreign leaders of and bombing a main adversary), and to remove a president who did not follow those limits. Who abused power.

Really, I'd argue that while it doesn't capture the public's concern and passion as much, the second article might be the worst - it's a president who is spitting on the constitution by attacking the people's and the Congress's power of oversight over his actions, by denying Congress all witnesses (he tried even with those who did testify) and documents. The constitution demands a rogue president be ended.

Years of Republicans lying about Democratic presidents, calling THEM the 'rogue presidents' spitting on the constitution, while they ignore Republican presidents doing just that - from Reagan ignoring Congress's law against funding the Contras, to Bush abusing the pardon power for those who did, to Bush and trump, tend to make some of the public not care as much as they should.

They've spent decades creating a 'loyal team' out of nearly half the country who care only about 'winning' and no principles, including our constitution, which is only a weapon for attacking the 'enemy' Democrats. This abused of power, which I'd say includes both articles of impeachment, is not only 'an' impeachable offense, but the most important one.

The fact that some Americans are brainwashed into not caring, and the president's party's senators are corrupted into supporting the rogue president, doesn't change that - in fact, it proves the need for the constitution's laws and enforcing them all the more.

Nixon was rightly impeached for ordering some illegal 'petty crimes' of break-ins, and covering up those crimes from Congressional investigation. trump has done far worse; Nixon turned over the tapes, under court order, after holding out as long as he could. trump has not, though the one thing he has not yet done is to ignore the courts' authority also as much as he attacks it.

annata said:

Nixon's 'Abuse of Powers' ( part of the impeachment articles ) were crimes. not Trumps

10 Crimes of the Nixon Administration
Richard Nixon’s crimes went far beyond Watergate. His abuse of power, his use of the IRS, FBI and CIA against his perceived enemies, his obstruction of justice, payment of hush money, maintenance of an enemies list, are just a few of the crimes he committed while President and while trying to become President. Most of his criminal activities are forgotten, other than the Watergate scandal, itself not one crime, but a lengthy series of criminal behavior by the President and his underlings.

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If you're judging Nixon's crimes, you're right that they went far beyond Watergate and his impeachment articles.

But when you're comparing their impeachments, you have to look at the narrower actions he was impeached for, and compare them to trump's. trump's crimes also go far beyond what he's impeached for, and we not only know that already, but will learn of more over time.

Craig234 said:

If you're judging Nixon's crimes, you're right that they went far beyond Watergate and his impeachment articles.

But when you're comparing their impeachments, you have to look at the narrower actions he was impeached for, and compare them to trump's. trump's crimes also go far beyond what he's impeached for, and we not only know that already, but will learn of more over time.

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lol.. so the House did a crappy job of finding "high crimes and misdemeanors"?
Because there are no crimes listed -'abuse of power is not a crime'

the reason for the post was to show Nixons 'Abuse of Power ( 1 of 3 articles) were actual crimes - while Trumps are not

Slavister said:

Aside from abuse of power being an article of impeachment for both of last 2 impeachment processes, I think Schiff said it best in response this latest ridiculous Republican position...

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Typical dummass democrat reasoning: 'Trump is guilty of abusing power because he did not attack Russia over unproven democrat allegations that Russia hacked the DNC computers and exposed Hillary as a fraud.'

A little history lesson. The term 'high crimes and misdemeanors' was taken directly from British law. The writers of the Constitution knew very well what it meant. They had hundreds of years of British case law in which it was invoked to inform them. If some of our present-day lawyers wish to assume a 'know nothing' posture, it speaks to their willingness to ignore the evidence. [Ed.: And they don't even have to issue a subpoena to get it!]

Sidebar: It's quite possible that the lawyers for the president know all about the term and the supporting documentation. If they do, their position says something about their interest in the truth.

Fletch said:

Schiff will get the chance to make his case before the senate. Only now you will have to sit through a legal rebuttal.

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There is no legal basis for the claims of ad.

Abuse of power isnt impeachable? Total lie given that is primarily why we have impeachment in our constitution.

He also claimed trump has more authority than a monarch. Lmao.

Torus34 said:

A little history lesson. The term 'high crimes and misdemeanors' was taken directly from British law. The writers of the Constitution knew very well what it meant. They had hundreds of years of British case law in which it was invoked to inform them. If some of our present-day lawyers wish to assume a 'know nothing' posture, it speaks to their willingness to ignore the evidence. [Ed.: And they don't even have to issue a subpoena to get it!]

Sidebar: It's quite possible that the lawyers for the president know all about the term and the supporting documentation. If they do, their position says something about their interest in the truth.

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Our founders saw people impeached for using office to get better boat docking positions FFs.

Fletch said:

Schiff will get the chance to make his case before the senate. Only now you will have to sit through a legal rebuttal.

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Its time for them to pick their argument and put up or shut up. I sincerely hope they deny every witness the democrats want and call all the witnesses Trump wants.

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AlphaOmega said:

Meanwhile...back at the ranch...same lefties golf clapped for Obamas phone and pen.

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Dont leave out weaponizing the irs, illeagally selling guns on the black market, granting illegal aliens amensity from deportation, and lying about Benghazi. By thier definition all those acts were abuses or power and he should of been impeached for.

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trouble13 said:

Dont leave out weaponizing the irs, illeagally selling guns on the black market, granting illegal aliens amensity from deportation, and lying about Benghazi. By thier definition all those acts were abuses or power and he should of been impeached for.

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Oh I also forgot he executed Americans without a trial.

annata said:

lol.. so the House did a crappy job of finding "high crimes and misdemeanors"?
Because there are no crimes listed -'abuse of power is not a crime'

the reason for the post was to show Nixons 'Abuse of Power ( 1 of 3 articles) were actual crimes - while Trumps are not

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No, you don't understand the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors". There are infractions, misdemeanors and felonies in our current laws; why don't you show me where "high crimes" are? Why don't you learn the meaning of the word "misdemeanors" and crimes as they use the word at the time?

The phrase has long been understood - but not by you - to mean that's basically whatever Congress says it means, and does not have to refer to enacted laws, and that's how it was intended and is being used. But while it's not required, the GAO just ruled that trump's withholding of the aid WAS an 'actual crime' - not to mention the criminal ignoring of subpoenas.

Obscurity said:

He also claimed trump has more authority than a monarch. Lmao.

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Actually, he DOES, when you compare him to monarchs today. It sort of goes dictator -> US president -> monarch today, though that was somewhat different in the time of King George III. But even then monarch's had given up most of their power for centuries, and one had been beheaded.

annata said:

lol.. so the House did a crappy job of finding "high crimes and misdemeanors"?
Because there are no crimes listed -'abuse of power is not a crime'

the reason for the post was to show Nixons 'Abuse of Power ( 1 of 3 articles) were actual crimes - while Trumps are not

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Very good. You do know that a crime need not have been committed for impeachment to happen?

Craig234 said:

Actually, he DOES, when you compare him to monarchs today. It sort of goes dictator -> US president -> monarch today, though that was somewhat different in the time of King George III. But even then monarch's had given up most of their power for centuries, and one had been beheaded.

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English royalty lost its power over the citizenry in 1688 after the English Revolution when Parliament was established and a Constitutional Monarchy was put in place. Subsequently the monarchy's 'power' was reduced to pretty much ceremonial duties only, and their 'rule' was answerable to Parliament. Essentially they stayed in their position because we, the people, allowed them to. Nothing has changed since and the royals are little more than tourist magnets now.

Constitutional monarchy - Wikipedia

Fletch said:

Schiff will get the chance to make his case before the senate. Only now you will have to sit through a legal rebuttal.

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I've yet to see any "legal" rebuttal thus far. Be interesting if we ever see any "legal" rebuttal or if it's more of the same "sham" defense.

Fletch said:

Schiff will get the chance to make his case before the senate. Only now you will have to sit through a legal rebuttal.

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Looking forward to it.

annata said:

Nixon's 'Abuse of Powers' ( part of the impeachment articles ) were crimes. not Trumps

10 Crimes of the Nixon Administration
Richard Nixon’s crimes went far beyond Watergate. His abuse of power, his use of the IRS, FBI and CIA against his perceived enemies, his obstruction of justice, payment of hush money, maintenance of an enemies list, are just a few of the crimes he committed while President and while trying to become President. Most of his criminal activities are forgotten, other than the Watergate scandal, itself not one crime, but a lengthy series of criminal behavior by the President and his underlings.

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No matter how many times the right argues about crimes, trump will forever stay impeached. Get over it.

Slavister said:

Aside from abuse of power being an article of impeachment for both of last 2 impeachment processes, I think Schiff said it best in response this latest ridiculous Republican position...

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You have an interesting approach of presenting your argument and destroying in the same sentence.

In one of the last two impeachment processes, the charges were never brought.

In the other, the accused was acquitted.

Think.

annata said:

lol.. so the House did a crappy job of finding "high crimes and misdemeanors"?
Because there are no crimes listed -'abuse of power is not a crime'

the reason for the post was to show Nixons 'Abuse of Power ( 1 of 3 articles) were actual crimes - while Trumps are not

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You do mean the president and his cronies did a wonderful job of blocking congress from finding the truth. I know that's what you meant to say.

And for the one thousandth time, no crimes need to be committed to be impeached and trump is forever impeached.

trouble13 said:

Its time for them to pick their argument and put up or shut up. I sincerely hope they deny every witness the democrats want and call all the witnesses Trump wants.

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Me too, make sure the rest of america gets a real good look at what republicans are willing to do to excuse this president. The gop senators will be putting themselves on trial if they pull a stunt like the one you are suggesting.