false comparisons between 'fast and furious' Obama's 'obstruction' and Trump's obstruction

Impeachment is not about 'crime', it's about misconduct.

And it's not even about misconduct, per se, it's about a degree of misconduct so egregious it's impeachable.


That is what this is about.


Republicans are arguing that Obama's withholding of documents during the 'fast and furious' fiasco was not ruled as obstruction.

Thing is, it wasn't that it was not obstruction, it was that it wasn't to a degree sufficient to impeach.

Trump Wrong About Obama Documents - FactCheck.org

The Obama administration did resist turning over some documents sought by congressional investigators in at least two cases, but it hardly refused to hand over any documents. In fact, the Obama administration handed over hundreds of thousands of documents in response to various congressional inquiries — and it turned over tens of thousands more under court order.

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Whereas Trump is refusing, not only to turn over ALL DOCUMENTS, he's directing all of the fact witnesses to DEFY ALL SUBPOENAS.

That is what the articles of impeachment are about, the degree of misconduct so egregious it warrants impeachment.

See, if we don't remove Trump for doing this, he'll do it from now on, a lot, and move on to even more egregious things, because that is what Trump does, in spades, he tests the system to see what he can get away with, and as long as repubs let him get away with it, he'll get away with even more, and more, and more.


How can republicans not be award of this? Are they that stupid?

I guess they are.

Sad, really.

If feel that it's like dems are banging repubs on the head with a hammer, and forcing their nose right down into the stink, and we ask, how much of this stink can you honestly take before you can no longer deny that you smell it? The Trump turds are stacked up so high, literally to the heavens, how can you not smell the stink?

I swear to god repubs are DESTROYING America by enabling an insidious man.

Trump, by being impeached, has achieved something that Barrack Obama was unable to. Trumpers should be proud!

Y'all can try to excuse Obama as much as you like in your efforts to pin something on Trump, but here's the real attitude...



Think about that...it's not about proof, it's about allegations.

btw...

Darrell Issa, a California Republican who heads the House Oversight and Government Committee, has been demanding further documents and threatening to try to hold the attorney general in contempt of Congress if he didn't turn them over (more on that later). So Wednesday morning, acting on Holder's request, Obama asserted executive privilege in response to a request from Holder. In a letter to Obama, Holder argues that the documents Issa is requesting aren't really related to Fast and Furious, since they post-date it, and that releasing them would compromise confidentiality within the executive branch. The letter came after negotiations late Tuesday -- in which Holder offered to release some documents in return for dropping the contempt proceedings -- failed. Issa, however, was unswayed by Obama's assertion and went forward with a vote in the Oversight Committee. The committee voted in favor of holding Holder in contempt by a 23-17 margin, along party lines.

Eric Holder, Contempt of Congress, and Fast and Furious: What You Need to Know - The Atlantic

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OscarLevant said:

Impeachment is not about 'crime', it's about misconduct.

And it's not even about misconduct, per se, it's about a degree of misconduct so egregious it's impeachable.


That is what this is about.


Republicans are arguing that Obama's withholding of documents during the 'fast and furious' fiasco was not ruled as obstruction.

Thing is, it wasn't that it was not obstruction, it was that it wasn't to a degree sufficient to impeach.




Whereas Trump is refusing, not only to turn over ALL DOCUMENTS, he's directing all of the fact witnesses to DEFY ALL SUBPOENAS.

That is what the articles of impeachment are about, the degree of misconduct so egregious it warrants impeachment.

See, if we don't remove Trump for doing this, he'll do it from now on, a lot, and move on to even more egregious things, because that is what Trump does, in spades, he tests the system to see what he can get away with, and as long as repubs let him get away with it, he'll get away with even more, and more, and more.


How can republicans not be award of this? Are they that stupid?

I guess they are.

Sad, really.

If feel that it's like dems are banging repubs on the head with a hammer, and forcing their nose right down into the stink, and we ask, how much of this stink can you honestly take before you can no longer deny that you smell it? The Trump turds are stacked up so high, literally to the heavens, how can you not smell the stink?

I swear to god repubs are DESTROYING America by enabling an insidious man.

Click to expand...

From your source:

and it turned over tens of thousands more under court order.

Click to expand...

If the court had to order it, then by your own definition, that's obstruction of Congress.

Rexedgar said:

Trump, by being impeached, has achieved something that Barrack Obama was unable to. Trumpers should be proud!

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And in his first term too. That's historic, even Nixon or Clinton didn't achieve that level of infamy.

Don't even dignify it with a thread. They lie.

OscarLevant said:

Impeachment is not about 'crime', it's about misconduct.

And it's not even about misconduct, per se, it's about a degree of misconduct so egregious it's impeachable.

That is what this is about.

Republicans are arguing that Obama's withholding of documents during the 'fast and furious' fiasco was not ruled as obstruction.

Thing is, it wasn't that it was not obstruction, it was that it wasn't to a degree sufficient to impeach.

Whereas Trump is refusing, not only to turn over ALL DOCUMENTS, he's directing all of the fact witnesses to DEFY ALL SUBPOENAS.

That is what the articles of impeachment are about, the degree of misconduct so egregious it warrants impeachment.

See, if we don't remove Trump for doing this, he'll do it from now on, a lot, and move on to even more egregious things, because that is what Trump does, in spades, he tests the system to see what he can get away with, and as long as repubs let him get away with it, he'll get away with even more, and more, and more.

How can republicans not be award of this? Are they that stupid?

I guess they are.

Sad, really.

If feel that it's like dems are banging repubs on the head with a hammer, and forcing their nose right down into the stink, and we ask, how much of this stink can you honestly take before you can no longer deny that you smell it? The Trump turds are stacked up so high, literally to the heavens, how can you not smell the stink?

I swear to god repubs are DESTROYING America by enabling an insidious man.

Click to expand...

Coming from the party that has lead this country down rabbit hole after rabbit hole to the tune of millions of dollars, nobody but Democrats believe Democrats any more.

Kavanaugh is a high school serial rapist
FAIL
Trump is a planted Russian asset
FAIL
All of Trump loans are cosigned by Russian oligarchs
FAIL
Trump owes billions to Russia and is compromised
FAIL
Trump violated the Emoluments clause and will be removed
FAIL

After 3 years of crying wolf at the tax payers expense and an impeachment that has been in the works since the day he took office and you think the voters are going to roll over for this fake Impeachment. They won't

If you think Trump is going to be removed He won't

If you think voters are going to remove him in 2020 They won't

But we do expect the continuing saga of fake Democrat claims until they are removed from power in the house.

You can bank on it.

apdst said:

From your source:



If the court had to order it, then by your own definition, that's obstruction of Congress.

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Wait....so they did what the Court ordered and its somehow obstruction?

Do you smell toast?

Did Trump defy a court order? Was the AG held in contempt?

OscarLevant said:

Impeachment is not about 'crime', it's about misconduct.

And it's not even about misconduct, per se, it's about a degree of misconduct so egregious it's impeachable.


That is what this is about.


Republicans are arguing that Obama's withholding of documents during the 'fast and furious' fiasco was not ruled as obstruction.

Thing is, it wasn't that it was not obstruction, it was that it wasn't to a degree sufficient to impeach.




Whereas Trump is refusing, not only to turn over ALL DOCUMENTS, he's directing all of the fact witnesses to DEFY ALL SUBPOENAS.

That is what the articles of impeachment are about, the degree of misconduct so egregious it warrants impeachment.

See, if we don't remove Trump for doing this, he'll do it from now on, a lot, and move on to even more egregious things, because that is what Trump does, in spades, he tests the system to see what he can get away with, and as long as repubs let him get away with it, he'll get away with even more, and more, and more.


How can republicans not be award of this? Are they that stupid?

I guess they are.

Sad, really.

If feel that it's like dems are banging repubs on the head with a hammer, and forcing their nose right down into the stink, and we ask, how much of this stink can you honestly take before you can no longer deny that you smell it? The Trump turds are stacked up so high, literally to the heavens, how can you not smell the stink?

I swear to god repubs are DESTROYING America by enabling an insidious man.

Click to expand...

Perhaps if Congress chose not to present their investigation as an impeachment, but rather as straightforward oversite, there would not have been such resistance.

OscarLevant said:

Impeachment is not about 'crime', it's about misconduct.

And it's not even about misconduct, per se, it's about a degree of misconduct so egregious it's impeachable.


That is what this is about.


Republicans are arguing that Obama's withholding of documents during the 'fast and furious' fiasco was not ruled as obstruction.

Thing is, it wasn't that it was not obstruction, it was that it wasn't to a degree sufficient to impeach.




Whereas Trump is refusing, not only to turn over ALL DOCUMENTS, he's directing all of the fact witnesses to DEFY ALL SUBPOENAS.

That is what the articles of impeachment are about, the degree of misconduct so egregious it warrants impeachment.

See, if we don't remove Trump for doing this, he'll do it from now on, a lot, and move on to even more egregious things, because that is what Trump does, in spades, he tests the system to see what he can get away with, and as long as repubs let him get away with it, he'll get away with even more, and more, and more.


How can republicans not be award of this? Are they that stupid?

I guess they are.

Sad, really.

If feel that it's like dems are banging repubs on the head with a hammer, and forcing their nose right down into the stink, and we ask, how much of this stink can you honestly take before you can no longer deny that you smell it? The Trump turds are stacked up so high, literally to the heavens, how can you not smell the stink?

I swear to god repubs are DESTROYING America by enabling an insidious man.

Click to expand...

The Senate will serve as a check on the House's bizarre interpretation that high crimes and misdemeanors does not mean it has to be criminal. You can thank the Framers for seeing Nancy Pelosi 200 years ahead of time.

Drawdown said:

The Senate will serve as a check on the House's bizarre interpretation that high crimes and misdemeanors does not mean it has to be criminal. You can thank the Framers for seeing Nancy Pelosi 200 years ahead of time.

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The only thing that is bizarre is your inability to see the obvious.

In point of fact, "high crimes and misdemeanors" is anything Congress says it is ( within reason, of course ).

There is nothing bizarre about Trump's abuse of power, obstruction of congress, he does it right out in the open for everyone to see.

The right must be blind, that's what is bizarre.

Athanasius68 said:

Perhaps if Congress chose not to present their investigation as an impeachment, but rather as straightforward oversite, there would not have been such resistance.

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I can't imagine there would be any sort of impeachment that this white house would not resist. There is no reasoning with this crowd.

Condor060 said:

Coming from the party that has lead this country down rabbit hole after rabbit hole to the tune of millions of dollars, nobody but Democrats believe Democrats any more.

Kavanaugh is a high school serial rapist
FAIL

Click to expand...

No reasonable person claims that. Onlly that he engaged in sexual misconduct.

Trump is a planted Russian asset
FAIL

Click to expand...

Some on the fringed wondered, but there was no formal charge to that affect, but 130 documented instances of communication with russians
is sufficient to look into.

All of Trump loans are cosigned by Russian oligarchs
FAIL

Click to expand...

Where do you get these extreme positions? There is evidence he has been laundering money with Russians.

Trump owes billions to Russia and is compromised
FAIL

Click to expand...

Trump owes millions to Deustchbank, this is an established fact.

Trump violated the Emoluments clause and will be removed

Click to expand...

There is evidence he has violated the emoluments clause, and if the right were about justice, they would help dems remove him.
but, they are putting party of above country, and allowing a criminal to continue to be in office.

After 3 years of crying wolf at the tax payers expense and an impeachment that has been in the works since the day he took office and you think the voters are going to roll over for this fake Impeachment. They won't



If you think Trump is going to be removed He won't

If you think voters are going to remove him in 2020 They won't

But we do expect the continuing saga of fake Democrat claims until they are removed from power in the house.

You can bank on it.

Click to expand...

The only thing that is fake is Donald Trump. You've been conned, as his entire base.

Mycroft said:

Y'all can try to excuse Obama as much as you like in your efforts to pin something on Trump, but here's the real attitude...



Think about that...it's not about proof, it's about allegations.

btw...

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Rather odd. Seems Democrats seem to have forgotten about due process, I remind you due process is a constitutional right for everyone.

“What I will do is remind Americans that the House provided President Trump every opportunity to prove his innocence."
Transcript of U.S. Rep. Steny Hoyer’s speech on the articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump

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That's not the way it works.

So tell me more about how honest and truthful the Democrats claims are of 'protecting and supporting the constitution' again?

The Democrats are a clean and present danger to the constitution and therefore the Republic, this is beyond argument at this point.

apdst said:

From your source:



If the court had to order it, then by your own definition, that's obstruction of Congress.

Click to expand...

Hundreds of thousands voluntarily.

Tens of thousands under court order.


His voluntary/involuntary ratio is 10:1, hardly enough to qualify for impeachment.

Trump is defying ALL subpoenas for TESTIMONY and DOCUMENTS. 100% of both.

That qualifies for impeachment.

Athanasius68 said:

Perhaps if Congress chose not to present their investigation as an impeachment, but rather as straightforward oversite, there would not have been such resistance.

Click to expand...

The purpose of the Democrat's impeachment is not oversight. It never was. Their move to impeachment began about 10 nano-seconds after the 2016 election was called.

It is strictly political. The Democrats want to prevent a Trumps second term, and they have nothing, not even 1/2 way decent presidential candidates, to prevent it, ergo they went with impeachment.
The media. The Democrats. Essentially a single entity spouting the same talking points, anymore. Its accurate and factual to call the so called 'news' media DNC political propaganda and 'journalists' Democratic shills.
The purpose of the Democrat's impeachment is not oversight. It never was. It is 100% political and was used because the Democrats know they have nothing against Trump that raises to the level of impeachment (so they orchestrated - made **** up), and nothing to prevent a Trump 2nd term.

Come November 2020, there are going to be even more Democrat, liberal, and progressives heads exploding than there were November 2016.

The difference is simple.

Trump is a known sexual predator and con man that should never have been allowed to run for, let alone win the Presidency. The media and the judicial system never did thier jobs because he was supposedly one of the 1% and a media figure with powerful friends. Trump has continued his criminal activities as President...from day 1, and that alone should be enough to kick him out.

Obama was non of the above.

Sent from my Honor 8X

OscarLevant said:

The only thing that is bizarre is your inability to see the obvious.

In point of fact, "high crimes and misdemeanors" is anything Congress says it is ( within reason, of course ).

There is nothing bizarre about Trump's abuse of power, obstruction of congress, he does it right out in the open for everyone to see.

The right must be blind, that's what is bizarre.

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It is anything the CONGRESS says, not the Democratically controlled House says, and the other half of the Congress will be batting the crazies down.

OscarLevant said:

.

Click to expand...

Kavanaugh is a high school serial rapist
FAIL
No reasonable person claims that. Only that he engaged in sexual misconduct.

Click to expand...

Democrats accused him of being an alcoholic high school rapist using comments out of context in his high school yearbook and providing a witness
that didn't know how she got to the party
didn't know how she got home from the party
didn't know the location of the party
couldn't fly on a plane until we found out she was a world traveler
all of her provided witnesses had no idea what she was talking about
there is no evidence Ford ever even met Kavanaugh
Ford’s own Father Supported Kavanaugh’s Confirmation
Ford Changed the Date of the Incident by Years from Her Initial Stories
Ford Said She Wanted to Stay Confidential, But her First Call Was to Washington Post

And then we all got to watch Liberals beating on the doors of the SCOTUS and climb on the statues outside

Trump is a planted Russian asset
FAIL
Some on the fringed wondered, but there was no formal charge to that affect, but 130 documented instances of communication with russians
is sufficient to look into.

Click to expand...

Everyone watched Schiff tell his story on most of the MSM about his conclusive evidence of Trump working for the Russians.

All of Trump loans are cosigned by Russian oligarchs
FAIL
Where do you get these extreme positions? There is evidence he has been laundering money with Russians.

Click to expand...

THere is no such evidence of Trump laundering money and several msm individuals had to make retractions.

MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell apologizes, retracts report on Trump finances - POLITICO

Trump owes billions to Russia and is compromised
FAIL
Trump owes millions to Deustchbank, this is an established fact.

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Which has what to do with owning Russians billions of dollars? Deustch bank has been lending in the US for decades. Not just Trump. But that never stopped the left from trying to convince everyone he owed billions to Russia and was compromised

How Russian Money Helped Save Trump’s Business – Foreign Policy

Trump violated the Emoluments clause and will be removed
FAIL
There is evidence he has violated the emoluments clause, and if the right were about justice, they would help dems remove him.
but, they are putting party of above country, and allowing a criminal to continue to be in office.

Click to expand...

Nobody but Dems are going to continue to make false claims. By the way, your emoluments fake claim has already been dismissed.

Judge dismisses suits claiming Trump violated emoluments clause - POLITICO

The only thing that is fake is Donald Trump. You've been conned, as his entire base

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There is nothing more fake than the stupidity of Democrats getting caught in lie after lie. You can't walk any of this back. Trump has exposed the Democrats for what they really are to the voters and is why the DNC is broke as we speak.

Condor060 said:

Democrats accused him of being an alcoholic high school rapist using comments out of context in his high school yearbook and providing a witness
that didn't know how she got to the party
didn't know how she got home from the party
didn't know the location of the party
couldn't fly on a plane until we found out she was a world traveler
all of her provided witnesses had no idea what she was talking about
there is no evidence Ford ever even met Kavanaugh
Ford’s own Father Supported Kavanaugh’s Confirmation
Ford Changed the Date of the Incident by Years from Her Initial Stories
Ford Said She Wanted to Stay Confidential, But her First Call Was to Washington Post

And then we all got to watch Liberals beating on the doors of the SCOTUS and climb on the statues outside




.

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She is credible, he is not. He came off like an entitled frat boy. She was believable. She had nothing to gain by her testimony.

Remember, this wasn't a trial, and all that matters is not the evidence, all that matters is credibility. Either you believer her or you don't. I do.

But, the issue of sexual misconduct can be laid aside, given that his petty partisan rant, so egregious and so unbecoming of the stature required ( in my view and the view of many ) of a Supreme Court Justice, disqualified him.

OscarLevant said:

She is credible, he is not. He came off like an entitled frat boy. She was believable. She had nothing to gain by her testimony.

Remember, this wasn't a trial, and all that matters is not the evidence, all that matters is credibility. Either you believer her or you don't. I do.

But, the issue of sexual misconduct can be laid aside, given that his petty partisan rant, so egregious and so unbecoming of the stature required ( in my view and the view of many ) of a Supreme Court Justice, disqualified him.

Click to expand...

Thats pretty funny given the fact that even her own father didn't find her credible or her closes friends she called as witnesses wouldn't back up her claims but you believe her. You would believe anything or anybody that makes any claim against Trump.
No surprise there.

But Kavanaugh calling out the liars looking down their noses putting his family through these fake claims of being a serial rapist is out of bounds? How dare he.