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Dershowitz claims 'abuse of power' is not a 'high crime or misdemeanor' under US Constitution

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Article 1 Abuse of Power

Article 2 Obstruction of Congress

You cannot combine the articles.

Impeachment of Donald Trump - Wikipedia


The impeachment of Donald Trump, the 45th president of the United States, occurred on December 18, 2019, when the House of Representatives approved articles of impeachment on charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. - from link


Mycroft, you are sloppier than usual, you ok?

I think the constant falling off the deep end is starting to show.
 
shrug...

This is irrelevant.

Trump isn't being charged with "abuse of power". The article of impeachment accuses him of "abuse of Congress".

So that means that this opinion by Dershowitz...and your response...are nothing but discussion about something that doesn't matter.

I'm so happy and completely unsurprised to see that you're ignorance at least equals if not surpasses your dishonesty. Article I clearly states abuse of power as the basis and Article II identifies obstruction of Congress.
 
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Of course, Dershowitz is dershing ****owitz. "High crimes and misdemeanors" is a phrase deliberately made undefined in the Constitution, thus leaving it to Congress to determine. It's a stroke of brilliance by Madison because he realized the potential types and variations of bad behavior by a President could be almost anything. He wanted Congress to have wide discretion in this matter.
 
extorting a foreign country for an election interference bribe and then obstructing congress are impeachable offenses. Mango is guilty of both.

You might want to read the statute on what actually constitutes an "impeachable offense."

I get it -- you don't like Trump -- but your dislike doesn't change our laws. Just yesterday, you discovered
Trump's call didn't qualify as "extortion" either, yet you can't seem to stop making the same bogus accusations.

Something tells me liberals know this impeachment is a fiasco, so they're trying to lay the groundwork for after Trump is acquitted. It's interesting to watch, but it's a little concerning, too.
 
You might want to read the statute on what actually constitutes an "impeachable offense."

I get it -- you don't like Trump -- but your dislike doesn't change our laws. Just yesterday, you discovered
Trump's call didn't qualify as "extortion" either, yet you can't seem to stop making the same bogus accusations.

Something tells me liberals know this impeachment is a fiasco, so they're trying to lay the groundwork for after Trump is acquitted. It's interesting to watch, but it's a little concerning, too.

Engaging in extortion and bribery and then obstructing congress are impeachable offenses by any measure. And yes, he did.
 
I think he is wrong:

Per Hamilton's federalist paper #65, it's clear that abuse of power is, indeed, an impeachable offense:



Although Hamilton is arguing that such a charge is "political" and given to "one side or the other" based on partisan passions, he is not saying it's inappropriate to so charge a president. He is merely indicating that removing a president based on such a charge is not easy. No one ever said it was.

And, then there's precedent, whereas 'abuse of power' has been included in prior articles of impeachment, and were never stricken, right?


So, if (paraphrased) "abuse of public trust by public men" is NOT "abuse of power", I find that a rather silly argument.

Dershowitz is obviously wrong, as you have pointed out. However, his legal drivel will probably be good enough for most Repug Senators to acquit Trump. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Yes, impeachment is a political act.

Your point is?
Just clarifying the ground rules; The BS coming from the House Dems make it seem like the impeachment is critical to the very existence of our country and it's future. But thanks for making it clear it's nothing more than an admission the Dems know they can't beat Trump by vote and so must scurry arond like cockroaches when the kitchen light is turned on.

Or to make it a bit clearer:

Above the law.jpg
 
Engaging in extortion and bribery and then obstructing congress are impeachable offenses by any measure. And yes, he did.

No extortion took place and while he did obstruct Congress, that's not impeachable. Were it -- Obama would have been impeached.
 
No extortion took place and while he did obstruct Congress, that's not impeachable. Were it -- Obama would have been impeached.

i don't do alt reality.
 
You might want to read the statute on what actually constitutes an "impeachable offense."

Statute?

The term "high crimes and misdemeanors" appears in the constitution, is undefined, but the founders understood it broadly to mean corrupt acts in the attaining or excercise of office. ie, abuse of power. There is also no judicial review of conviction, so a president can be impeached and removed for having a stupid face, were the votes there.

But you were ordered to say abuse of power isn't impeachable, so you're saying it. You're saying it even though you don't have a clue.





Not even a fart in the wind's worth of a clue.
 
This is neither right nor just.

Making a huge error is never right. Especially one that whose outcome was as widely foreseen as this.

And it is not just. Removal and permanent ban from holding politics is not warranted here.

Trump will not be hurt by this partisan withchunt. He and the GOP will come out the other side as political winners.


No, to declare that the evidence for codified crimes and 'high crimes and misdeamenors' which is in our face and beyond dispute, the effort to hold a man accountable for those crimes, as a 'witchhunt' is about as partisan as partisan can get.
 
Just clarifying the ground rules; The BS coming from the House Dems make it seem like the impeachment is critical to the very existence of our country and it's future. But thanks for making it clear it's nothing more than an admission the Dems know they can't beat Trump by vote and so must scurry arond like cockroaches when the kitchen light is turned on.

If anyone else were president, you might have a point. But, to not impeach and remove this president from office for those crimes will only enable him to do more of the same, and far worse, which, in the process of doing so, will destroy the presidency, and our standing in the world --- we'll be just another third rate Machiavellian empire, like Russia.

That is the fundamental error the right is making by acquitting Trump.

It's not that we can, or cannot, beat Trump in the election, that isn't what this is about.

What then, is this about?


It's about the fact that man who is a malignant narcissist/pathological lying sociopath like Trump should NEVER be allowed to be president of the united states, PERIOD.


The EC was originally designed to prevent such a man from being the nominee. Because of the emasculation of the EC, dems created "superdelegates", so that someone like Trump could never hijack the party. Unfortunately, the RNC lacked the wisdom to reject Trump from the party, and now the world is suffering because of their myopia, and now we have mob rule. Senators, during this trial, will not be voting their conscience or what is good for the US, they are voting to keep Trump from berating them on twitter, and primarying them in the next election.

Yes, mob rule. Trump gets his power by pandering to a demographic which, if his senators and congresspersons get out of line, he primaries them and thus whips his underlings into submission. Given that senate repubs are spineless, he is having a field day over them.

That is the quintessence of mob rule.
 
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No extortion took place and while he did obstruct Congress, that's not impeachable. Were it -- Obama would have been impeached.

Yawn. Yet again you trumpet rank ignorance of this from the rooftops.

The elements of bribery are subsumed into the impeachment article for abuse of power. This clearly is utterly lost on you. You don't have to use the word assault or charge it in a murder indictment for there to have been an assault.
 
No extortion took place and while he did obstruct Congress, that's not impeachable. Were it -- Obama would have been impeached.

Something like impeachability of "obstruction" would depend on the severity of it.

No, Obama would not have been impeached. Trump is doing Obstruction on a wholesale basis, which is a clear cut case of obstruction of congress, and, as the Mueller report indicates, numerous examples of obstruction of justice.
 
Of course there is. That's what executive privilege means.


Impeachment is about misconduct. There is no executive privilege when it is being done to cover it up just as their is no attorney client privilege if it is deemed that the attorney is complicit in the crimes of his client.
 
If anyone else were president, you might have a point. But, to not impeach and remove this president from office for those crimes will only enable him to do more of the same, and far worse, which, in the process of doing so, will destroy the presidency, and our standing in the world --- we'll be just another third rate Machiavellian empire, like Russia.

That is the fundamental error the right is making by acquitting Trump.

It's not that we can, or cannot, beat Trump in the election, that isn't what this is about.

What then, is this about?


It's about the fact that man who is a malignant narcissist/pathological lying sociopath like Trump should NEVER be allowed to be president of the united states, PERIOD.


The EC was originally designed to prevent such a man from being the nominee. Because of the emasculation of the EC, dems created "superdelegates", so that someone like Trump could never hijack the party. Unfortunately, the RNC lacked the wisdom to reject Trump from the party, and now the world is suffering because of their myopia, and now we have mob rule. Senators, during this trial, will not be voting their conscience or what is good for the US, they are voting to keep Trump from berating them on twitter, and primarying them in the next election.

Yes, mob rule. Trump gets his power by pandering to a demographic which, if his senators and congresspersons get out of line, he primaries them and thus whips his underlings into submission. Given that senate repubs are spineless, he is having a field day over them.

That is the quintessence of mob rule.
A preemptive impeachment? What article of the Constitution grants that? "More of the same"? Are you ****ting me? More of what? Conducting foreign policy? Investigation questionable activities? Asserting Constitutional rights? Give me a break. :roll:
 
Yawn. Yet again you trumpet rank ignorance of this from the rooftops.

The elements of bribery are subsumed into the impeachment article for abuse of power. This clearly is utterly lost on you. You don't have to use the word assault or charge it in a murder indictment for there to have been an assault.

You do realize -- I hope -- that nowhere is extortion mentioned in the articles of impeachment.

There's a reason for that -- but I'm sure it went right over your head.
 
You do realize -- I hope -- that nowhere is extortion mentioned in the articles of impeachment.

There's a reason for that -- but I'm sure it went right over your head.

Irrelevant to the fact that the elements of a crime specifically mentioned in the USC are in the articles of impeachment.

You realize, I hope, that you have no idea what you're talking about and haven't even begun to make a rational or honest argument.
 
Impeachment is about misconduct. There is no executive privilege when it is being done to cover it up just as their is no attorney client privilege if it is deemed that the attorney is complicit in the crimes of his client.

No, impeachment is about "high crimes and misdemeanors." There is no mention of "misconduct" or "abuse of power." Both of those are just partisan opinion, nothing else.
 
I know we diverge on the more conspiracy theory side, however, I do not deny that.

What I would say, is that if the populace gave a ****, it’s actually never been harder to be a corrupt politician if people gave a ****, because at this point it’s so obvious and there’s so many simple ways to expose it with the way things are today, the issue is apathy.

And all Trumps done is shown clearly, by being so open, obvious and public about it that, that apathy extends to gross negligence on the part of voters, the amount of “do not give a ****” is troubling to say the least.

tRump has, at best, ever only garnered 40% support of the country. He lost the 2016 popular vote by over 3 million votes. Most AmeriCANs oppose him by numbers in the high 50's to low 60's depending on the day.

That his most ardent supporters AbsaByGodLutely know he's crooked and couldn't give a small turd less ISN'T, at least should NOT be an indictment of AmeriCANs on the whole.

That said it took so few in key areas to get the Criminal Con-Man elected that any patriotic American has to be very concerned that he could do it again. Considering what he's done to our reputation and confidence in our Nation at home AND abroad, that, in trying to be a tough guy, he almost got us into another war in a region we should be disengaging from and daily has our Nation in such turmoil we have no National cohesion or direction. At the risk of sounding like Mitt Romney; there are 33 to 40 percent of Americans that will NEVER change their minds; they are not the problem.

So on one hand I have full faith in my fellow Americans to, given the chance, make the right choice. But, on the other, they have demonstrated, not that they don't give a ****, but in todays divisive political climate they can become confused and stay home at the WRONG time. These are times that try men's souls, and it is high time for all Patriots to reach out and get anyone sitting on the fence registered and voting. IF patriotic AmeriCANs do that, right or left, Donald John tRump moves to Mira Largess for good, the GOOD of America, no later than this time next year.

IF ALL ELIGIBLE AmeriCANs vote; tRump loses!

Moscow Mitch, Lippy Graham and many other GOP Senators are too corrupted by their Oligarch masters to hope this impeachment will succeed. Honest patriotic AmeriCANs need to oust him, the old fashioned way, next November.
 
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