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Thread: Study finds that single-payer saves money

  1. #111
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    Re: Study finds that single-payer saves money

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    I also get a little nervous when "projected costs" are used for argument. Can you name the last government run program that didn't overrun its "projected costs" by gazillions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    Nonsense. Projections and trends aren't reality.
    Yes, reality has turned out to be much better than the projections used to sell the ACA ten years ago. And that's because health care cost growth fell to historic lows after the ACA passed, which no one at the time was predicting.

    As a result, spending right now is half a trillion dollars below where they told us it would be at this point. Cumulative health savings relative to baseline over the 2010-19 period has been about $2.7 trillion. The cost of the ACA itself has been closer to about half of what it was promised to be, whereas the Medicare savings have been closer to double (~$500 billion promised vs ~$900 billion achieved). Health spending as a percentage of GDP right now is 3.2 percentage points below what they told us it would be by this year.

    So what policy outperformed its projected costs? The ACA. By an insane amount. And the entire health sector, not to mention every man, women, and child in the country, is better off for it.

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    Re: Study finds that single-payer saves money

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's kind of like how our **** works, but we pay more. Many folk can't afford the higher quality care and just die after some time. Medical expenses are the number one cause of bankruptcy in America. That seems a bit messed up.
    If you're saying universal healthcare is the same as traditional American healthcare because people are denied healthcare in both cases, I'd agree with you. The big difference being the cost. Universal healthcare is far more expensive to the average individual.
    Last edited by cabse5; 01-18-20 at 01:47 PM.
    'Social distancing doesn't save anyone from the virus but it may push back the time one gets the virus. Social distancing doesn't protect those with pre-existing conditions to the virus nor does it make allowances for those who are asymptomatic or have slight symptoms to the virus.' cabse5 04/09/20

  3. #113
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    Re: Study finds that single-payer saves money

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    Yes, reality has turned out to be much better than the projections used to sell the ACA ten years ago. And that's because health care cost growth fell to historic lows after the ACA passed, which no one at the time was predicting.
    It has? In what universe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard
    As a result, spending right now is half a trillion dollars below where they told us it would be at this point. Cumulative health savings relative to baseline over the 2010-19 period has been about $2.7 trillion. The cost of the ACA itself has been closer to about half of what it was promised to be, whereas the Medicare savings have been closer to double (~$500 billion promised vs ~$900 billion achieved). Health spending as a percentage of GDP right now is 3.2 percentage points below what they told us it would be by this year.
    LOL, there you go with "projections and trends" again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard
    So what policy outperformed its projected costs? The ACA. By an insane amount. And the entire health sector, not to mention every man, women, and child in the country, is better off for it.
    LOL, maybe in the la-la land of spreadsheets and projections, but the fact is consumers are paying much higher premiums and outrageous deductibles while the government subsidizes insurance companies (many of which have dropped out of the market).
    Obama: High unemployment and slow growth are the new normal
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  4. #114
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    Re: Study finds that single-payer saves money

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    It has? In what universe?
    This one. Health care spending growth, health care price inflation, ESI premiums have all flirted with historic lows in the ACA era. That's why the nation is spending far less on health care right now than anyone thought we would be.

    LOL, there you go with "projections and trends" again.
    That's literally how you started this exchange. "Can you name the last government run program that didn't overrun its 'projected costs' by gazillions?" The answer is the ACA. By a lot. It came in under its projected costs by hundreds of billions of dollars. And that's just the taxpayer share of national health costs. National health care costs themselves came in trillions under projected costs over the past decade.

    LOL, maybe in the la-la land of spreadsheets and projections
    Yes, numbers, the things we're talking about. I'm sure you feel like health cost savings in the ACA era didn't vastly exceed expectations, but the numbers are unequivocal that they did. Numbers do in fact trump rightwing feelings.

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    Re: Study finds that single-payer saves money

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    This one. Health care spending growth, health care price inflation, ESI premiums have all flirted with historic lows in the ACA era. That's why the nation is spending far less on health care right now than anyone thought we would be.
    LOL, again with the "projections and trends" mantra. Those aren't real numbers or data, they're suppositions and guesses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard
    That's literally how you started this exchange. "Can you name the last government run program that didn't overrun its 'projected costs' by gazillions?" The answer is the ACA. By a lot. It came in under its projected costs by hundreds of billions of dollars. And that's just the taxpayer share of national health costs. National health care costs themselves came in trillions under projected costs over the past decade.
    LOL "projected costs" mean squat. Actual costs DO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard
    Yes, numbers, the things we're talking about. I'm sure you feel like health cost savings in the ACA era didn't vastly exceed expectations, but the numbers are unequivocal that they did. Numbers do in fact trump rightwing feelings.
    Got nothing to do with Trump, I raised these issues since he was a Democrat. What I feel is continually writing bigger and bigger checks for premiums and dealing with a deductible that I rarely hit so and as a result rarely get much help from ACA. I also feel the suck of taxes taken out of my income to subsidize those that can't afford to buy HCI themselves.

    I look at Gallop's long running ACA popularity poll and see it rather ever hit 50% - that tells more about the effectiveness of ACA than every spreadsheet and projection you can cite. Wanna bet the base approval number is those getting something for cheap or for nothing?
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  6. #116
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    Re: Study finds that single-payer saves money

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    LOL, again with the "projections and trends" mantra. Those aren't real numbers or data, they're suppositions and guesses.


    LOL "projected costs" mean squat. Actual costs DO.
    I'm guessing you asked "Can you name the last government run program that didn't overrun its 'projected costs' by gazillions?" because you assumed there wasn't an obvious and ready answer that would infuriate the right. The answer, of course, being the ACA, whose savings vastly exceeded promises and humiliated the rightwing doomsayers.

    Actual cost growth in health care in the ACA era has been among the lowest ever recorded, despite the highest coverage levels in history.

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    Re: Study finds that single-payer saves money

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    I'm guessing you asked "Can you name the last government run program that didn't overrun its 'projected costs' by gazillions?" because you assumed there wasn't an obvious and ready answer that would infuriate the right. The answer, of course, being the ACA, whose savings vastly exceeded promises and humiliated the rightwing doomsayers.

    Actual cost growth in health care in the ACA era has been among the lowest ever recorded, despite the highest coverage levels in history.
    I've heard the mantras and slogans over and over. Not convinced. And as the Gallop poll shows neither are many others.

    Thanks for a civil discussion, I think it's time we agree to disagree and wander off.
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    Re: Study finds that single-payer saves money

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    The more people that is covered... the lower the cost will go.

    When American had 10's and 100's of thousands with "Union Sponsored Health Care"... the cost was lower, because of the high volume of people who were covered through these group program policies.

    When Union Busting went into overdrive, the cost of Medical Insurance began to "skyrocket"... It's basic math!!! ( aside from the basic math, when the number of insured people declined... the Insurance and Medical Community saw an opportunity to "Price Gouge" !!!!


    No matter how it unfolds, the future will "break up these networks" and people will be free to choose their own provider of choice... not from some list such as that which the networks currently provide.

    Networks are a Collusive Agreement Based System between "Medical Networks" and "Insurance Carriers".. That is something were two entities are working against the individual. Networks make it harder to get the test people need in a timely manner, and when they do, these doctors Play Feeder System Players" to their partners within the Network.

    It never made sense that a person would pay more if they went outside the network, their insurance would not cover the cost, and would take too much time to authorize a person to go outside the network. These same systems, rush people "out of hospitals"... try every kind of test to avoid doing the costly test that would produce better information.

    I would hope to see Federal Funding Programs for Medical Professions, to set up centers across this country, with multiple MRI Machine and Other Speciality Machines, to drive down the "Monopoly that Hospitals and their Networks have on MRI"... it's not new technology... its been around a while.. yet they still charge a rate as if its a rare testing unit. We should have 100's of Thousands of these machine across the nation... that is in proximity to where every citizen can access it within a reasonable distance. There would not be a backlog and long waiting times. They can do a Scans.. that scan multiple body systems all during the same process, rather than a individual scan for each and every little thing. It's does not make sense.. to limit this powerful machine to such energy wasting abuse, just for the sake of pursuing "higher profits" by requiring "a different scan for each things". For one, it expose the individual to too much magnetic resonance. ((MRIs use a strong magnetic field and radio waves)) - Ultra Sounds should never have the high cost they have...

    It's time the public call out the Medical Community and Insurance Systems on these "Cost Gouging Games".

    The more informed people invest to become, the more they can know how to stand up to these "Greed Machine Systems" that have been created in the Medical Community and the Insurance Systems.
    People who get trapped in these Networks, should go and try and get their Medical Records, and watch the spin circle they are put through. When their doctors join another part of the network, the records belong to the previous part of the network, and they make you go through a hassel to get those records. ACA and Digital Medical Records Access would have stopped that mess of these companies holding people records hostage to keep them in their networks.

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    Re: Study finds that single-payer saves money

    I was seeing a doctor who was part of a network, and he joined another organization, that was part of the same Hospital System, and they told me... the doctor no longer had my records when he relocated, and I'd have to go back to the place he previously was and fill out a request for the records.

    To me, this is not good, because the records should have been accessible to the doctor who created the medical files, which was the only doctor I saw in that organization...

    It's frustrating because that's too much sensitive info for it to be in the hands of someone who no longer has the doctor that I was seeing within their organization.
    Furthermore... I don't write my SSN on all those paper forms they give, nor should they ask anyone to do so. If they want it, "type it into the system" or deal with the Insurance which has all that info contained in the Insurance Carrier's records, because they "ask for the insurance card"... its no need to ask anyone to write their SSN on some paper that floats within their office.

    The VA only ask for the last 4, because they have the info that is connected to the VA Medical Card.

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    Re: Study finds that single-payer saves money

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesmoke View Post
    "most countries are far more stingier with their health care dollars than America is, on the whole"

    That's because to get the same or better health outcomes at nearly half the cost, those countries not only pay much less for admin and drugs, they also pay less in doctors and mgr salaries. BTW, the claim that the UHC countries wait-time is much longer than in the US is a farce and has never been proven.
    You're preachin' to the choir, bro, so blow some of that bluesmoke at a repub on this forum.


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