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Trump is responsible for the downed airliner

OscarLevant said:
Not 100%. You make an absolute statement like that and the truth will shut you down every time
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No. 100%. It is THEIR ****up, full stop.

I'll ask you again -- why do you WANT the US to share part of the blame?
 
PeacefulPartier said:
Does that mean Obama is to blame too? After all, he gave Iran a butt load of money that they used for all kinds of things...probably even anti aircraft defense systems.
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Obama only unfroze Iran's own money. That said, I think the Iran deal was highly flawed since all it really did was kick the nuclear can about 10 years down the road.
 
Harshaw said:
No. 100%. It is THEIR ****up, full stop.

I'll ask you again -- why do you WANT the US to share part of the blame?
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You won't get a sane answer, because literally everything orange man bad.
 
OscarLevant said:
At first, I agreed with the Trumpsters that Iran was 100% responsible.

But, on the Smerconish TV show ( he's a lawyer ) he talked about "proximate causality" instructions that are given to juries in civil court, that one effect can have a primary cause, and a number of proximate contributing causes. David Frum, a well known conservative who appears on TV and radio often, makes the case, and I'm inclined to agree.


Trump Broke It. Now He Owns It.




No doubt Iran could have been more careful, disallowing commercial traffic during the "tit for tat" climate as described by Buttigieg, but no doubt the attack on their #2 man caused a panic climate, where "in the fog of war", errors are more likely.


Like Mr. Frump explains, it all started when Trump withdrew from the Iran nuke deal noting that, he had no realistic alternative other than to increase sanctions, as if this is going to cause Iran to come crawling to Trump with their tail between their legs. Trump has an epic failure of grasping the dynamics of foreign policy consequences when it comes to a country like Iran. Moreover, he's been lying about a number of things.

I find it amusing that Trumpsters will sit idley by when Trump makes outrageous claims against dems, but when anyone makes a claim
against Trump, legitimate or otherwise, my my, they get so full of self-righteous indignation all of the sudden.
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Pure bull ****. Mr Frum is a ****ing idiot. Trump's withdrawal years before somehow caused an Iranian anti-aircraft battery to fire two missiles at any airliner on the flight path of an international airport? Horse ****.
 
Acadia said:
You won't get a sane answer, because literally everything orange man bad.
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Is that the same thing as "black man bad" when he gave Iran back their money?
 
OscarLevant said:
At first, I agreed with the Trumpsters that Iran was 100% responsible.

But, on the Smerconish TV show ( he's a lawyer ) he talked about "proximate causality" instructions that are given to juries in civil court, that one effect can have a primary cause, and a number of proximate contributing causes. David Frum, a well known conservative who appears on TV and radio often, makes the case, and I'm inclined to agree.


Trump Broke It. Now He Owns It.




No doubt Iran could have been more careful, disallowing commercial traffic during the "tit for tat" climate as described by Buttigieg, but no doubt the attack on their #2 man caused a panic climate, where "in the fog of war", errors are more likely.


Like Mr. Frump explains, it all started when Trump withdrew from the Iran nuke deal noting that, he had no realistic alternative other than to increase sanctions, as if this is going to cause Iran to come crawling to Trump with their tail between their legs. Trump has an epic failure of grasping the dynamics of foreign policy consequences when it comes to a country like Iran. Moreover, he's been lying about a number of things.

I find it amusing that Trumpsters will sit idley by when Trump makes outrageous claims against dems, but when anyone makes a claim
against Trump, legitimate or otherwise, my my, they get so full of self-righteous indignation all of the sudden.
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The basic premise you are proposing that that 'Trump broke it', when that's not necessarily the case. Deterring an emboldened and aggressive terrorist state such as Iran isn't really 'breaking' anything. If anything it was already broke, for one, and deterrence may very well be on a path to 'fixing' it.

But since everything is measure by results, we'll have to be patient and see how it turns out.
 
Craig234 said:
You cheer Iran and believe them!

OK, that was well-deserved snark. Would the accident have happened without trump's decision to illegally assassinate Iranian leaders?
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1) I honestly do not know and probably never will know why that man was killed at that time. I doubt the Iranians are going to open up there terrorist game plan and show the world that this particular man was planning an attack and/or that he was in whole or part responsible for the death of that american citizen.

2) Since I do have faith that our government is acting on the best interests of the country for any given action and that inaction has consequences as much as action. I am assuming Trump as well as every other person involved in this action were in some agreement. (If not, there would have been 20 whistleblowers calling up the media by now).

3) Iran, as a country has a minimum amount of due diligence before launching missiles into the sky. One of them might just be too check the air travel before launch.

4) An argument I could make is that these Iranians are more stupid and irrational than Trump. If this is true, which is proving correct, then I happen to agree with Trump 100% that this nation should never be allowed to control Nuclear weapons.

One more point we should make, Iran could have been the rational being in the room and took a case to the IJC. They could have probably won the case in court.
 
AProudLefty said:
Is that the same thing as "black man bad" when he gave Iran back their money?
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Nope; black man bad gave the money (multiple times over the original amount ... and don't give me that **** "excuse" that it was because of interest it had accumulated) back to a country that progressed into the top "producer" of world-wide terrorism. There is a reason why the US didn't return that money for 50 years ... until black man bad showed up.
 
Barnacle said:
Nope; black man bad gave the money (multiple times over the original amount ... and don't give me that **** "excuse" that it was because of interest it had accumulated) back to a country that progressed into the top "producer" of world-wide terrorism. There is a reason why the US didn't return that money for 50 years ... until black man bad showed up.
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So you're defending Iran for producing uranium?
 
Harshaw said:
They ****ed up. It's 100% on them. We are not responsible, at all, for them shooting down a plane taking off from their own airport.

To think otherwise is to want to. Why would you want to?
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Because he hates Trump.
 
charliebrown said:
Iran has openly said it was their fault and human error and this thread is still blaming it on Trump.

Who is more correct in this particular instance? PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!
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Well, actually, Iran is blaming Trump and the Leftists and anti-Trumpers are echoing Iranian propaganda. We all knew whose side they were on, all along.
 
RetiredUSN said:
He freed up money and other assets.

Can you prove they didn't use it for it's proxy war?
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You can't prove a negative, remember? The burden of proof is on those who say that money was used for the proxy war. Actually, whenever Iran does anything bad, which is admittedly all the time, you claim it was money that Obama gave them. It's up to you to document that. What am I thinking! You never document. you just accuse.
 
apdst said:
Well, actually, Iran is blaming Trump and the Leftists and anti-Trumpers are echoing Iranian propaganda. We all knew whose side they were on, all along.
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The alphabet propagandists are streaming Iranian tv as if it's gospel truth. Chris Matthews makes me puke.
 
bearpoker said:
You can't prove a negative, remember? The burden of proof is on those who say that money was used for the proxy war. Actually, whenever Iran does anything bad, which is admittedly all the time, you claim it was money that Obama gave them. It's up to you to document that. What am I thinking! You never document. you just accuse.
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The terrorism wasn't free. That's a fact.
 
Barnacle said:
Nope; black man bad gave the money (multiple times over the original amount ... and don't give me that **** "excuse" that it was because of interest it had accumulated) back to a country that progressed into the top "producer" of world-wide terrorism. There is a reason why the US didn't return that money for 50 years ... until black man bad showed up.
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But don't you dare question black man...
 
Iraq shot down that airliner and bears that responsibility for their actions. But their actions were motivated by Trump killing their top general. There is little doubt that plane would have been undisturbed if not for Trumps causal actions. He bears partial responsibility and has their blood on his hands.
 
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