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Immediate Threat is a Lie!

Luckyone

Luckyone

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The statement from Trump that the killing of Soleimani was because of an immediate threat has not been verified by any proof to that effect. Trump failed to deliver to the Senate Intelligence Committee any credible evidence that something had to be done immediately to prevent American deaths from occurring.

This does open the door for a lot of negatives to our Democracy happening given that if this kind of explanation (lie) is allowed to stand, there is nothing that can be done in the future to stop a rash and in the moment decision from occurring that could bring about a 3rd World War.

It has been proven over and over again that Trump is a pathological liar and that he is willing to do anything to get what he wants, even going against the Constitution and the laws. It has also been proven over and over again that he makes decisions rashly (closed the government down for 34 days without discussing it with anyone or having a good reason for doing so) and has no game plan ("I make gut decisions based on what is happening at the time").

It is also evident that Trump is a bully that believes brute force is the way to resolve problems and having the strongest military in the world, he uses it to solve things that his mind cannot solve otherwise.

This is a "recipe" for a disaster occurring.

I don't know about you but my mind always tells me that "preventing" a disaster before it happens is better that "reacting" to a disaster after it happens.

Trump is a "walking disaster waiting to happen" and giving this man more power without control and more time (another 4 years) in which a disaster has a higher probability of happening is the worst possible thing that an intelligent person can allow to occur.

There are now too many examples of this kind of thinking and action happening over the past 3 years to put them all in one of these OP's. All that anyone has to do is Google for the information and each and every time you Google Trump about this, you get more than 20 responses. On the opposite side (Trump Supporters) all you get is opinion and blind faith in which no proof of innocence is shown. In fact, just the opposite as the response to this threat is "prove it" as if giving Trump the continuing benefit of the doubt will make the problem go away.

This has to stop. If nothing else, make Trump show proof of his decisions (such as allow those in-the-know-first-hand) to testify and then make him accountable for every single decision he makes. It is time for all of us to wrest control of the U.S. away from one man and give it back to the the people and the game plan of government established by our forefathers.

Trump is a liar and a dangerous sociopath that at some point (if allowed) will cause this nation to implode.

By the way, below is a video from 3 days ago that speaks about some of the recent examples of what I am saying but in a sad/funny way. Humor often has a way to make us think about we don't want to think about.

 
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As long as American voters remain unaware of the harm they did by voting in such numbers for Donald Trump (albeit a minority), they will compound their error.
 
Trump offed a terrorist. That's a win for the USA.
 
Luckyone said:
The statement from Trump that the killing of Soleimani was because of an immediate threat has not been verified by any proof to that effect. Trump failed to deliver to the Senate Intelligence Committee any credible evidence that something had to be done immediately to prevent American deaths from occurring.

This does open the door for a lot of negatives to our Democracy happening given that if this kind of explanation (lie) is allowed to stand, there is nothing that can be done in the future to stop a rash and in the moment decision from occurring that could bring about a 3rd World War.

It has been proven over and over again that Trump is a pathological liar and that he is willing to do anything to get what he wants, even going against the Constitution and the laws. It has also been proven over and over again that he makes decisions rashly (closed the government down for 34 days without discussing it with anyone or having a good reason for doing so) and has no game plan ("I make gut decisions based on what is happening at the time").

It is also evident that Trump is a bully that believes brute force is the way to resolve problems and having the strongest military in the world, he uses it to solve things that his mind cannot solve otherwise.

This is a "recipe" for a disaster occurring.

I don't know about you but my mind always tells me that "preventing" a disaster before it happens is better that "reacting" to a disaster after it happens.

Trump is a "walking disaster waiting to happen" and giving this man more power without control and more time (another 4 years) in which a disaster has a higher probability of happening is the worst possible thing that an intelligent person can allow to occur.

There are now too many examples of this kind of thinking and action happening over the past 3 years to put them all in one of these OP's. All that anyone has to do is Google for the information and each and every time you Google Trump about this, you get more than 20 responses. On the opposite side (Trump Supporters) all you get is opinion and blind faith in which no proof of innocence is shown. In fact, just the opposite as the response to this threat is "prove it" as if giving Trump the continuing benefit of the doubt will make the problem go away.

This has to stop. If nothing else, make Trump show proof of his decisions (such as allow those in-the-know-first-hand) to testify and then make him accountable for every single decision he makes. It is time for all of us to wrest control of the U.S. away from one man and give it back to the the people and the game plan of government established by our forefathers.

Trump is a liar and a dangerous sociopath that at some point (if allowed) will cause this nation to implode.

By the way, below is a video from 3 days ago that speaks about some of the recent examples of what I am saying but in a sad/funny way. Humor often has a way to make us think about we don't want to think about.

Click to expand...


Trump blamed the black guy. That will satisfy half of America.
 
RetiredUSN said:
If anyone but Trump turned Soleimani's lights out, this OP would be orgasmic.
Click to expand...

This OP is not about whether Soleimani deserved to die or not (he definitely deserved it). This OP is about any man making decisions on his own and then lying about it. It is like saying that an arrest of a person that is likely guilty gives the cop the right and privilege to arrest anyone and everyone he personally thinks is guilty and then not having to explain his reasons and be accountable for every one of his decisions. Arresting guilty people is done after a court or an official decree that has been decided by others is put out and not because the cop thought he was guilty. Being proven to be right afterwards does not give him the right to do it beforehand.

I am treating this event as a sign of a principle of ours being abused by Trump. A principle that was decided by our forefathers. Being the right decision does not excuse breaking the rules that affects all decisions. The idea that "the end justifies the means" can be seen in two ways as being right or wrong depending on who and how the decision is being made. Evidently, if a crazy person thinks/believes that stabbing someone that he believes is evil is right, he could be stabbing a person that is not evil. Such decisions have to be made in the "established" ways that our forefathers put together as to any act of war against another nation which has to be decided by both the president and Congress. They did leave the door open as to an imminent threat occurring forcing a decision to be made immediately without the delay in discussing it with other but the caveat is that the imminent threat has to be proven thereafter, because if it is a lie then it means the person in charge is making decisions on his own whims and desires and that cannot be allowed to happen.

Soleimani deserved to die but killing him created an imminent threat to American lives if the reaction from Iran (an ideological and crazy nation) were to have been what normally would be expected and not what happened (Iran acted rationally). Trump was guilty in creating that threat. The president actually made a decision on his own that might or might not have saved American lives but in doing so he actually put thousands (if not more) American lives at risk. It was a rash and on the gut decision that could have as easily (if not more) turn horribly worse. This is what our forefathers tried to prevent and yet you seem to be saying that you approve of "this kind of action being taken by Trump" simply because it turned out well. Would you be saying the same thing if Iran had bombed and killed hundreds and perhaps even thousands of Americans?

We have "lived and died" by our established laws for 240 years. Laws he have allowed many guilty people to go free but have also made innocent people be protected against injustice. You want and support that principle being broken?
 
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Luckyone said:
The statement from Trump that the killing of Soleimani was because of an immediate threat has not been verified by any proof to that effect. Trump failed to deliver to the Senate Intelligence Committee any credible evidence that something had to be done immediately to prevent American deaths from occurring.

This does open the door for a lot of negatives to our Democracy happening given that if this kind of explanation (lie) is allowed to stand, there is nothing that can be done in the future to stop a rash and in the moment decision from occurring that could bring about a 3rd World War.

It has been proven over and over again that Trump is a pathological liar and that he is willing to do anything to get what he wants, even going against the Constitution and the laws. It has also been proven over and over again that he makes decisions rashly (closed the government down for 34 days without discussing it with anyone or having a good reason for doing so) and has no game plan ("I make gut decisions based on what is happening at the time").

It is also evident that Trump is a bully that believes brute force is the way to resolve problems and having the strongest military in the world, he uses it to solve things that his mind cannot solve otherwise.

This is a "recipe" for a disaster occurring.

I don't know about you but my mind always tells me that "preventing" a disaster before it happens is better that "reacting" to a disaster after it happens.

Trump is a "walking disaster waiting to happen" and giving this man more power without control and more time (another 4 years) in which a disaster has a higher probability of happening is the worst possible thing that an intelligent person can allow to occur.

There are now too many examples of this kind of thinking and action happening over the past 3 years to put them all in one of these OP's. All that anyone has to do is Google for the information and each and every time you Google Trump about this, you get more than 20 responses. On the opposite side (Trump Supporters) all you get is opinion and blind faith in which no proof of innocence is shown. In fact, just the opposite as the response to this threat is "prove it" as if giving Trump the continuing benefit of the doubt will make the problem go away.

This has to stop. If nothing else, make Trump show proof of his decisions (such as allow those in-the-know-first-hand) to testify and then make him accountable for every single decision he makes. It is time for all of us to wrest control of the U.S. away from one man and give it back to the the people and the game plan of government established by our forefathers.

Trump is a liar and a dangerous sociopath that at some point (if allowed) will cause this nation to implode.

By the way, below is a video from 3 days ago that speaks about some of the recent examples of what I am saying but in a sad/funny way. Humor often has a way to make us think about we don't want to think about.

Click to expand...



Of course it's a lie, just as Saddam's '45 minute readiness WMD missiles' was a lie cobbled together in an attempt at justifying an illegal invasion, and to provoke pro-war hysteria in a gullible US public.
 
Trump can't help but lie. It's his natural state.

He could have actually told the truth and talked about all the bad stuff this guy did. But not Donald Trump. He just has to lie.

Ask the banks and his wives.
 
CaughtInThe said:
Trump can't help but lie. It's his natural state.

He could have actually told the truth and talked about all the bad stuff this guy did. But not Donald Trump. He just has to lie.

Ask the banks and his wives.
Click to expand...

So, Soleimani was a terrorist?
 
snakestretcher said:
Very good; and General Stanley McChrystal describes Quds as a "cross between the CIA and JSOC". Do you regard the CIA as a terrorist organisation?
Click to expand...

Responsible for extraterritorial operations,[6] the Quds Force supports non-state actors in many countries, including Lebanese Hezbollah, Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, Yemeni Houthis, and Shia militias in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.
 
Luckyone said:
The statement from Trump that the killing of Soleimani was because of an immediate threat has not been verified by any proof to that effect. Trump failed to deliver to the Senate Intelligence Committee any credible evidence that something had to be done immediately to prevent American deaths from occurring ...
Click to expand...

had tRump known about the soleimani plan to harm Americans in American embassies and did not take action to prevent such strikes against our nation and its people, resulting in great loss of life and treasure, my speculation is you would have been one of the first to castigate the president for his failure to take appropriate action

as an example, i give you the failure to address urgent intelligence information regarding bin laden's 9/11 plan:
"Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” The CIA’s famous Presidential Daily Brief, presented to George W. Bush on August 6, 2001, has always been Exhibit A in the case that his administration shrugged off warnings of an Al Qaeda attack. But months earlier, starting in the spring of 2001, the CIA repeatedly and urgently began to warn the White House that an attack was coming.

By May of 2001, says Cofer Black, then chief of the CIA’s counterterrorism center, “it was very evident that we were going to be struck, we were gonna be struck hard and lots of Americans were going to die.” “There were real plots being manifested,” Cofer’s former boss, George Tenet, told me in his first interview in eight years. “The world felt like it was on the edge of eruption. In this time period of June and July, the threat continues to rise. Terrorists were disappearing [as if in hiding, in preparation for an attack]. Camps were closing. Threat reportings on the rise.” The crisis came to a head on July 10. The critical meeting that took place that day was first reported by Bob Woodward in 2006. Tenet also wrote about it in general terms in his 2007 memoir At the Center of the Storm. ...
Click to expand...
What the CIA knew before 9/11: New details – POLITICO

i was a member of the left who took umbrage at dubya's failure to protect our nation when he had the opportunity to undermine bin laden's efforts

i would be a member of the left who loudly criticized tRump for knowing soleimani's plan and failing to take measures to prevent it

while i doubt there is any citizen who is more disappointed in our president's administration than i, it is wrong to criticize him for taking the appropriate action in this instance
and such criticism makes the left look foolish
 
apdst said:
Responsible for extraterritorial operations,[6] the Quds Force supports non-state actors in many countries, including Lebanese Hezbollah, Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, Yemeni Houthis, and Shia militias in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Your 'terrorist' fought against Saddam, aided the Kurds in Syria, fought the Taliban and numerous others the US designated as terrorists. Got anything else.
 
snakestretcher said:
Very good; and General Stanley McChrystal describes Quds as a "cross between the CIA and JSOC". Do you regard the CIA as a terrorist organisation?
Click to expand...

The United States Department of the Treasury designated the Quds Force under Executive Order 13224 for providing material support to US-designated terrorist organizations on 25 October 2007, prohibiting transactions between the group and U.S. citizens, and freezing any assets under U.S. jurisdiction.[99] The Government of Canada designated the Quds Force as a terrorist organization on 17 December 2012.[100] Egypt’s nominations included the organization.
 
apdst said:
The United States Department of the Treasury designated the Quds Force under Executive Order 13224 for providing material support to US-designated terrorist organizations on 25 October 2007, prohibiting transactions between the group and U.S. citizens, and freezing any assets under U.S. jurisdiction.[99] The Government of Canada designated the Quds Force as a terrorist organization on 17 December 2012.[100] Egypt’s nominations included the organization.
Click to expand...

Yes, and of course there are these inconvenient little gems:

United States and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

You (America), have NO moral position to preach from, considering the numerous terrorist organisations supported, armed and funded by the US.
 
Jean-s said:
As long as American voters remain unaware of the harm they did by voting in such numbers for Donald Trump (albeit a minority), they will compound their error.
Click to expand...

Don't know if the majority of them are unaware, most condone his bullying erratic actions and behavior. The cult is like their new leader, ignorant and corrupt.
 
Old 'N Chill said:
Don't know if the majority of them are unaware, most condone his bullying erratic actions and behavior. The cult is like their new leader, ignorant and corrupt.
Click to expand...

When you support a billionaire who is so greedy he takes money meant to heal and help children with cancer, you are deplorable. Period. Give Hillary credit, she nailed it.
 
apdst said:
He was the commander of the Quds Force...

Quds Force - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

Let's be perfectly "technical" about this. Soleimani was a killer of innocent people (many Americans included) but show me proof that he was planning to kill Americans immediately. No deaths to Americans had been credited to him since 2015 (when the treaty was signed) and the death of the American 10 days ago that did occur was proven to be accidental (not deliberate), meaning that Soleimani had not shown any signs of planning anything immediately.

You do not believe the ordering of his death should have been discussed with Congress before it occurring?
 
Luckyone said:
Let's be perfectly "technical" about this. Soleimani was a killer of innocent people (many Americans included) but show me proof that he was planning to kill Americans immediately. No deaths to Americans had been credited to him since 2015 (when the treaty was signed) and the death of the American 10 days ago that did occur was proven to be accidental (not deliberate), meaning that Soleimani had not shown any signs of planning anything immediately.

You do not believe the ordering of his death should have been discussed with Congress before it occurring?
Click to expand...

'Nuff said.
 
apdst said:
Like hell we don't...lol
Click to expand...

No, you don't. The US has historically armed, funded and supported terrorism. This is something you are clearly uncomfortable and unfamiliar with; that something is known as a 'fact'. Own it or explain the difference.
 
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