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Bernie Sanders is probably going to win both the nomination and presidency...

Airyaman said:
That's why we need reform of healthcare in the US, not a switch to government provided healthcare. Switching to who provides for healthcare will do nothing to fix what is wrong in the US healthcare system.
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Again, what is your plan? Give me a rough outline.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Again, what is your plan? Give me a rough outline.
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I don't have a plan. I'm not trying to win public office. I just know a bad plan when I see it. Switching healthcare funding from private insurance to the federal government will do absolutely nothing to reform what's wrong with our healthcare system. It could very well just make it worse as smaller rural hospitals close and less people go into medicine because off the pay cuts and lack of jobs.
 
Airyaman said:
I don't have a plan. I'm not trying to win public office.
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If you don’t have a plan, fine. Point to any possible alternative plan from ANYONE on the planet. Remember, Obamacare took the best idea the conservatives had and implemented it. So we know for a fact that there is no plan on the right better than the status quo, which we both agree is untenable. Which means we have to look to the left.

I just know a bad plan when I see it. Switching healthcare funding from private insurance to the federal government will do absolutely nothing to reform what's wrong with our healthcare system. It could very well just make it worse as smaller rural hospitals close and less people go into medicine because off the pay cuts and lack of jobs.
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If you could model America’s healthcare system on one nation, which nation would you choose?
 
Dans La Lune said:
Nomination. I’d bet a $1000 that he’d win presidency if he was the nominee, but that’s entering dangerous territory and I think someone would rather leave the forum than pay up.
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Sometimes it's worth the bet just to see one less socialist on the forum.
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Dans La Lune said:
If you don’t have a plan, fine. Point to any possible alternative plan from ANYONE on the planet. Remember, Obamacare took the best idea the conservatives had and implemented it. So we know for a fact that there is no plan on the right better than the status quo, which we both agree is untenable. Which means we have to look to the left.



If you could model America’s healthcare system on one nation, which nation would you choose?
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The United States's healthcare system cannot be modeled after any other country's because of the system that is already in place. Furthermore, many of the countries with universal healthcare funding are much smaller with next to no expenditures on military. We have 50 different states with different laws that would also need to be considered. So we really cannot model our healthcare system after another country's because of the uniqueness of the American system.

If I were an elected official, I would want to work on ways to reduce cost and improve quality. Switching funding from private to government will do nothing to fix the problems in healthcare in the USA. As stated before, I believe it would make it worse because there would be less money available to hospitals and healthcare providers because Medicare/Medicaid pays much less than private insurance. Hospitals would close, bigger hospitals would not be able to purchase new equipment, less people would go into healthcare, etc. It would make the quality of healthcare in the US go down, not up.
 
Rising Sun said:
Sometimes it's worth the bet just to see one less socialist on the forum.
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Well then, lets skip the pretense and just wager that. Your presence on these forums versus mine. I'm not really interested in donation benefits, to be honest.

In fact, you don't even have to leave if I win. Just permanently change your ideological lean to: Socialist.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Well then, lets skip the pretense and just wager that. Your presence on these forums versus mine. I'm not really interested in donation benefits, to be honest.

In fact, you don't even have to leave if I win. Just permanently change your ideological lean to: Socialist.
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You're the one who waffled, not me. Presence? No. The best was money; $25 that Bernie isn't the nominee and another $25 that he isn't elected President. Loser donates in the winner's name. I want the bennies of being a Gold member and I want you to pay for it. :mrgreen:
 
Rising Sun said:
You're the one who waffled, not me. Presence? No. The best was money; $25 that Bernie isn't the nominee and another $25 that he isn't elected President. Loser donates in the winner's name. I want the bennies of being a Gold member and I want you to pay for it. :mrgreen:
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We didn't agree on anything. I actually raised it to $50 and you didn't bite. You then said $1000 would be worth it to see me leave. I gave you the opportunity for MORE money and my departure.

The current bet is $50 for nominee (not $25), and my elimination as a poster if Sanders loses the presidency. I gave you an 'out' for remaining here if I win: You get labeled as a socialist forever. The pot is not going to get any sweeter, so I suggest you take it.
 
Dans La Lune said:
We didn't agree on anything. I actually raised it to $50 and you didn't bite. You then said $1000 would be worth it to see me leave. I gave you the opportunity for MORE money and my departure.

The current bet is $50 for nominee (not $25), and my elimination as a poster if Sanders loses the presidency. I gave you an 'out' for remaining here if I win: You get labeled as a socialist forever. The pot is not going to get any sweeter, so I suggest you take it.
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Who offered a $1000? Why are you twisting words? Why are you bouncing around like a pinball?

You initially declined. Why?

Dans La Lune said:
Rising Sun said:
$25 each on 1) Bernie getting the DNC nomination (I'm saying he won't, you're saying he will) and 2) Bernie being elected President (I'm saying he won't, you're saying he will). Loser donates the money in the winner's name to this forum. That way no personal information is exchanged, the forum admin can confirm it was done and, regardless who wins, the forum wins.

We can agree to smaller amounts if you like. $5 or $10 each bet.
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I won’t bet that Bernie is the nominee, but if he’s the nominee, I’ll bet an equal amount that he’ll beat Trump. I like the personal info angle. We can work this out.
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Dans La Lune said:
Btw, Klobuchar?!? On what planet is Klobuchar stronger against Trump than Bernie? LOL.
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It's a two horse race now, forget about Buttigieg & Warren it's obvious they have no staying power!
RCPolitics All sportsbboks combined have Biden 32.6%, Bernie 31.6% & rising with Warren fading to 14.4 & Buttigieg now in 5th
place behind Bloomberg!

Biden Sanders Warren Bloomberg Buttigieg Yang Clinton Klobuchar Obama Gabbard Steyer Patrick Booker Spread
RCP Average 1/11 32.6 31.6 14.4 12.6 9.8 4.9 4.0 2.8 1.4 1.3 1.2 0.8 0.7 Biden +1.0
32Red January 11th 36 29 13 11 11 3 5 2 1 1 2 1 1 Biden +7.8
Smarkets January 11th 30 32 12 12 8 3 3 1 1 1 1 0 0 Sanders +2.0
Betfair January 11th 31 31 17 13 10 4 4 2 1 1 1 1 1 TIE
BetVictor January 11th 33 33 14 14 10 5 6 5 2 3 1 TIE
SpreadEx January 11th 32 35 17 15 11 3 4 2 1 1 1 0 Sanders +2.5
Bovada January 11th 33 31 14 13 9 6 5 3 2 1 1 1 1 Biden +2.1
BetOnline January 11th 31 31 14 9 9 8 4 3 2 2 2 1 1 TIE
BookMaker January 11th 33 31 14 14 10 7 2 3 1 0
 
Our POTUS campaigns every four years are an attempt to SELL, or MARKET a person and their ideas to the American people. I might not be a salesman but I AM a film editor, and I've edited something like seven thousand commercials in the forty years I've been in the business, so I believe I've come to something of an understanding about what makes an effective marketing campaign.
If you want to sell veggie burgers, DO NOT CALL THEM Veggie Burgers. Call them something that sounds familiar.

I think in the last twenty years I've seen something like a hundred different attempts to make veggie burgers catch on with the mainstream.
Guess who finally cracked the code?
BURGER KING.
They called it "The Impossible Whopper".

The word "veggie" does not appear anywhere in their marketing campaign.
If Bernie can take a cue from Burger King, then he WILL be our next president.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Our POTUS campaigns every four years are an attempt to SELL, or MARKET a person and their ideas to the American people. I might not be a salesman but I AM a film editor, and I've edited something like seven thousand commercials in the forty years I've been in the business, so I believe I've come to something of an understanding about what makes an effective marketing campaign.
If you want to sell veggie burgers, DO NOT CALL THEM Veggie Burgers. Call them something that sounds familiar.

I think in the last twenty years I've seen something like a hundred different attempts to make veggie burgers catch on with the mainstream.
Guess who finally cracked the code?
BURGER KING.
They called it "The Impossible Whopper".

The word "veggie" does not appear anywhere in their marketing campaign.
If Bernie can take a cue from Burger King, then he WILL be our next president.
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Its too late.
 
Rising Sun said:
Who offered a $1000? Why are you twisting words?
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I never said you offered $1000. I said YOU thought $1000 would be worth it to get rid of me. Which, by the way, I’m honoured that you fear me so much.

You initially declined. Why?
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Yes, I declined. Now you have my final offer. New information (you fearing me) piqued my interest so I negotiated against myself I YOUR favour. Suck it up. If it’s too hot for you then you can decline.
 
Condor060 said:
False, Bernie raised more than any Democrat candidate. Thats it. Yet all Democrat candidates combined have only raised about 1/3 of Trumps campaign.

Trump has raised over 350 million with 61% of those donations from voters under $200. The highest in history of a presidential candidate before Trump was Obama with 149 million and 44% from voters. Lets not get carried away here.
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Learn your numbers. The Dem candidates outraised Trump in the last quarter, 2:1.
 
jamesbyoung said:
Bernie's health will be the ? mark.

However, the Dems will rally around him and he is popular with many Trump populists in WI, MI, and PA.
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Trump's mental health is a giant question mark. A list of psychologists have written to Congress about it. He makes Dick Cheney look sane by comparison.
 
Dans La Lune said:
I never said you offered $1000. I said YOU thought $1000 would be worth it to get rid of me. Which, by the way, I’m honoured that you fear me so much.



Yes, I declined. Now you have my final offer. New information (you fearing me) piqued my interest so I negotiated against myself I YOUR favour. Suck it up. If it’s too hot for you then you can decline.
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If you read and understood English as well as you've claimed you do and accused others of not doing, then you'd know that's not what I said.

Your anger is preventing you from seeing reality clearly. First on the atheist thread and now here. Why do I anger you so much?
 
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