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Fed study finds Trump tariffs backfired

CaughtInThe

CaughtInThe

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Fed study finds Trump tariffs backfired - MarketWatch

Donald Trump's Trade War Tariffs Reduced Employment at U.S. Factories and hiked prices, Federal Reserve study shows.


"We find that the 2018 tariffs are associated with relative reductions in manufacturing employment and relative increases in producer price.

Some executives have blamed import tariffs for higher costs including heavy equipment manufacturer Caterpillar CAT, +0.04%."



Is anyone surprised?
 
CaughtInThe said:
Fed study finds Trump tariffs backfired - MarketWatch

Donald Trump's Trade War Tariffs Reduced Employment at U.S. Factories and hiked prices, Federal Reserve study shows.


"We find that the 2018 tariffs are associated with relative reductions in manufacturing employment and relative increases in producer price.

Some executives have blamed import tariffs for higher costs including heavy equipment manufacturer Caterpillar CAT, +0.04%."



Is anyone surprised?
Click to expand...

Let's hear it from the Trump worshippers here on DP. They truly believe Trump is right and the Feds wrong. Remember he declared he knows more about ISIS than the generals?
He knows more about climate change than the climatologists? He declared windmill noise creates cancer that the doctors do not know about. He even declared himself to be greater than God. And people do believe his claims. The weak minded anyway.
 
No, the tariffs didn't backfire, because the purpose of the tariffs was to reward the lobbyists who wanted them. While the tariffs do make America poorer, Trump must play the game of electoral politics, just like any successful politician.

"We find that the 2018 tariffs are associated with relative reductions in manufacturing employment
Click to expand...

Good Lord. Why do people fetishize manufacturing employment?

I hate to have state the obvious, but if a foreign country can make widgets cheaper than we can in the US, then it makes sense to buy widgets from them. It makes no sense to put a tariff on widgets which is just a tax on the American consumer.
 
aociswundumho said:
No, the tariffs didn't backfire, because the purpose of the tariffs was to reward the lobbyists who wanted them. While the tariffs do make America poorer, Trump must play the game of electoral politics, just like any successful politician.



Good Lord. Why do people fetishize manufacturing employment?

I hate to have state the obvious, but if a foreign country can make widgets cheaper than we can in the US, then it makes sense to buy widgets from them. It makes no sense to put a tariff on widgets which is just a tax on the American consumer.
Click to expand...

So you are admitting that Trump is part of the swamp. Good call. Trump supporters are in league with the devil and supportive of increasing the swamp.
 
aociswundumho said:
No, I'm not a socialist.
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So the people elect the Republic and you call that socialism? Interesting that a fascist like you supports the people. Your fascism is on display here, the people are the Republic you hate.
 
CaughtInThe said:
Fed study finds Trump tariffs backfired - MarketWatch

Donald Trump's Trade War Tariffs Reduced Employment at U.S. Factories and hiked prices, Federal Reserve study shows.


"We find that the 2018 tariffs are associated with relative reductions in manufacturing employment and relative increases in producer price.

Some executives have blamed import tariffs for higher costs including heavy equipment manufacturer Caterpillar CAT, +0.04%."



Is anyone surprised?
Click to expand...

Tariffs made this country into an industrial superpower. It would take much more than a single “study” using extremely short term data to make a case against them.

aociswundumho said:
I hate to have state the obvious, but if a foreign country can make widgets cheaper than we can in the US, then it makes sense to buy widgets from them. It makes no sense to put a tariff on widgets which is just a tax on the American consumer.
Click to expand...

This is not at all obvious. Why shouldn’t we subsidize our own industries? If people want foreign goods (i.e. luxuries), let them pay a premium.
 
AmNat said:
Tariffs made this country into an industrial superpower.
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No, you've got it backwards. Free trade among the states made this country into an industrial superpower. Individual states can't put tariffs on out of state goods, but if they could have, the US would be much, much poorer than it is today. It was the lack of tariffs (between the states) that made the country one enormous free trade zone -- and that's what made the country great. The bigger the trade zone, the more overall prosperity you're going to get.

Why shouldn’t we subsidize our own industries?
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For one reason, where do you get the money for the subsidies? The taxpayer. Who pays extra when you apply tariffs? The taxpayer. Either way, the taxpayer's the one who's getting screwed by propping up inefficient industries with tariffs or subsidies.

Furthermore, how will it be decided as to which industries get the subsidies/tariffs? We know how. The "winners" in this perverse lottery will be chosen by their political clout. This is politics, after all.

Another reason is a person has the right to buy from whom he chooses, without having to pay a special tax to the government for it.
 
aociswundumho said:
No, the tariffs didn't backfire, because the purpose of the tariffs was to reward the lobbyists who wanted them. While the tariffs do make America poorer, Trump must play the game of electoral politics, just like any successful politician.



Good Lord. Why do people fetishize manufacturing employment?

I hate to have state the obvious, but if a foreign country can make widgets cheaper than we can in the US, then it makes sense to buy widgets from them. It makes no sense to put a tariff on widgets which is just a tax on the American consumer.
Click to expand...

That is the logic sold by the propaganda of the richest corporations on earth that own the MSM, press and Internet - and own the child labor sweatshops of the world.

This is the logic: It is best that you have zero income, but a 25% off coupon the price of everything - none of which you have any money to buy.

That logic only serves the super rich foreign sweatshop owners, no one else.
 
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aociswundumho said:
No, you've got it backwards. Free trade among the states made this country into an industrial superpower. Individual states can't put tariffs on out of state goods, but if they could have, the US would be much, much poorer than it is today. It was the lack of tariffs (between the states) that made the country one enormous free trade zone -- and that's what made the country great. The bigger the trade zone, the more overall prosperity you're going to get.



For one reason, where do you get the money for the subsidies? The taxpayer. Who pays extra when you apply tariffs? The taxpayer. Either way, the taxpayer's the one who's getting screwed by propping up inefficient industries with tariffs or subsidies.

Furthermore, how will it be decided as to which industries get the subsidies/tariffs? We know how. The "winners" in this perverse lottery will be chosen by their political clout. This is politics, after all.

Another reason is a person has the right to buy from whom he chooses, without having to pay a special tax to the government for it.
Click to expand...

Completely wrong. Free trade between the states is not what made the USA an economic super power. It was the industrial might of the USA having nothing to do with states. Your theory is that the USA became an economic superpower because of cheap imports. That's absurd.

Tariffs were first imposed to prevent foreign products - particularly imports from British sweatshop colonies - from destroying the American economy. Tariffs also was the primary income source of the federal government.
 
CaughtInThe said:
Fed study finds Trump tariffs backfired - MarketWatch

Donald Trump's Trade War Tariffs Reduced Employment at U.S. Factories and hiked prices, Federal Reserve study shows.


"We find that the 2018 tariffs are associated with relative reductions in manufacturing employment and relative increases in producer price.

Some executives have blamed import tariffs for higher costs including heavy equipment manufacturer Caterpillar CAT, +0.04%."



Is anyone surprised?
Click to expand...
And yet we added 266000 jobs in November.

Manufacturing jobs look pretty good too:

Manufacturing jobs.jpg
 
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joko104 said:
That logic only serves the super rich foreign sweatshop owners, no one else.
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That's not true.

First, it benefits the people who work in the sweatshop. These people don't have a lot of choices regarding income. It typically comes down to either subsistence farming or the sweatshop and since they come to the factories as fast as the factories can take them, we know what their choice is.

Second, it benefits US consumers, especially the poor in the US, because the sweatshop makes consumer goods cheaper for all Americans.

And, yes, the sweatshop owners turn a profit. If they didn't, the sweatshop wouldn't exist.
 
aociswundumho said:
No, you've got it backwards. Free trade among the states made this country into an industrial superpower. Individual states can't put tariffs on out of state goods, but if they could have, the US would be much, much poorer than it is today. It was the lack of tariffs (between the states) that made the country one enormous free trade zone -- and that's what made the country great. The bigger the trade zone, the more overall prosperity you're going to get.
Click to expand...

Free trade zones work when economic conditions in the involved states are similar. Free trade agreements between prosperous countries with functioning middle classes and high labor standards (whether imposed by law or by market forces) on the one hand, and poor countries with much lower standards of living on the other, are a recipe for the despoilment of the former by the latter. And that’s exactly what’s happened.



For one reason, where do you get the money for the subsidies? The taxpayer. Who pays extra when you apply tariffs? The taxpayer. Either way, the taxpayer's the one who's getting screwed by propping up inefficient industries with tariffs or subsidies.
Click to expand...

Virtually everyone is a “taxpayer” in one way or another. The specific people who pay for tariffs are those who choose to purchase foreign goods. It’s perfectly reasonable for the government to tax behaviors that it wishes to discourage.

I do agree that tariffs are generally preferable to direct subsidies.

Furthermore, how will it be decided as to which industries get the subsidies/tariffs? We know how. The "winners" in this perverse lottery will be chosen by their political clout. This is politics, after all.
Click to expand...

Corruption of state functions by lobbying interests is an inevitability in a democracy, and one of the reasons why democracy is a bad form of government. But that doesn’t excuse the government from its duty to protect the economy anymore than it excuses it from any of its other corruptible functions.

Another reason is a person has the right to buy from whom he chooses, without having to pay a special tax to the government for it.
Click to expand...

Where does this right come from?
 
Glowpun said:
Let's hear it from the Trump worshippers here on DP. They truly believe Trump is right and the Feds wrong.
Click to expand...

Yeah they do. Just yesterday they were preaching about 'all the things he's done'. If the facts don't support them, it's just 'fake news'.
 
AmNat said:
Free trade zones work when economic conditions in the involved states are similar.
Click to expand...

No, they work no matter what, because people don't trade unless it benefits them to do so.

It’s perfectly reasonable for the government to tax behaviors that it wishes to discourage.
Click to expand...

No it's not. People should be free to make their own choices. I don't agree that some politician knows what's best for 330 million people.

I do agree that tariffs are generally preferable to direct subsidies.
Click to expand...

They're both equally bad.

Corruption of state functions by lobbying interests is an inevitability in a democracy, and one of the reasons why democracy is a bad form of government.
Click to expand...

It's not corruption. There's no way to do it in a "non-corrupt" way. You can't label political decisions "corrupt" simply because you don't like the process.

Where does this right come from?
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The same place where right to keep and bear arms comes from.
 
aociswundumho said:
That's not true.

First, it benefits the people who work in the sweatshop. These people don't have a lot of choices regarding income. It typically comes down to either subsistence farming or the sweatshop and since they come to the factories as fast as the factories can take them, we know what their choice is.

Second, it benefits US consumers, especially the poor in the US, because the sweatshop makes consumer goods cheaper for all Americans.

And, yes, the sweatshop owners turn a profit. If they didn't, the sweatshop wouldn't exist.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was posting about what is best for Americans. You are posting about what is best for non-Americans at American's expense. Cheap imports creates poor Americans.

Are you old, meaning benefits from American industrialization. But now say to hell with everyone because you are on fixed income so all you care about is how you can buy stuff that is cheap because it is from essentially slave labor? Democrats have always loved profiting off of cheap slave labor products. However, losing the Civil War and unable to create their own slave nation, they now have to rely on foreign slave labor.

Your logic was used to justify slavery in the past too: to claim it is better to be a slave in the USA and living in a jungle in Africa. Thus, both the black slave benefited, not just those buying their products made cheaply by such slave labor.

There is a lot I don't like about the greed of so many people. There is a saying that you can sell anything if people think it is stolen. Even more, if they think it is cheap because it was made by 11 year old non-white fingers working 12 hours a day - as long as they keep up.
 
aociswundumho said:
No, they work no matter what, because people don't trade unless it benefits them to do so.
Click to expand...

People trade because of a perceived individual benefit to trading over not trading. That does not necessarily imply that the trading benefits the society the person lives in, nor that the person would still trade under the same conditions if presented with a different set of options than they currently have.

No it's not. People should be free to make their own choices. I don't agree that some politician knows what's best for 330 million people.
Click to expand...

All societies claim the right to restrict or dictate individual behavior when the interests of the society as a whole are at stake. In extreme cases this can go to the extent of making people lay down their lives in defense of their society. The idea that paying a tax on luxury goods is some sort of grievous imposition is ludicrous.

It's not corruption. There's no way to do it in a "non-corrupt" way. You can't label political decisions "corrupt" simply because you don't like the process.
Click to expand...

This is the point. Everything our government does is subject to influence by interest groups with motivations that do not match the stated goals of the governmental action in question. If this condemns trade protection it condemns everything the government does.

The same place where right to keep and bear arms comes from.
Click to expand...

Which is?
 
CaughtInThe said:
Fed study finds Trump tariffs backfired - MarketWatch

Donald Trump's Trade War Tariffs Reduced Employment at U.S. Factories and hiked prices, Federal Reserve study shows.


"We find that the 2018 tariffs are associated with relative reductions in manufacturing employment and relative increases in producer price.

Some executives have blamed import tariffs for higher costs including heavy equipment manufacturer Caterpillar CAT, +0.04%."



Is anyone surprised?
Click to expand...

A snap shot in time.

There are also counterpoints out there to your argument.

President Trump’s Trade Policy Is Working - WSJ

As for myself............ I guess we'll find out in the next year.
 
CaughtInThe said:
Fed study finds Trump tariffs backfired - MarketWatch

Donald Trump's Trade War Tariffs Reduced Employment at U.S. Factories and hiked prices, Federal Reserve study shows.


"We find that the 2018 tariffs are associated with relative reductions in manufacturing employment and relative increases in producer price.

Some executives have blamed import tariffs for higher costs including heavy equipment manufacturer Caterpillar CAT, +0.04%."



Is anyone surprised?
Click to expand...


I didn’t like the tariffs to start with. But after considering some more, I think it’s a good more to force at least some supply chain diversity away from China. And your own post proves the cost with be minimal, and may turn out to be a long term gain at least strategically, and perhaps economically if it forces China to tighten the belt to compete with emerging Asian producers.

China is a concentration camp dystopic nightmare, we should at the very least partially decouple.

Trump winning...
 
CaughtInThe said:
Fed study finds Trump tariffs backfired - MarketWatch

Donald Trump's Trade War Tariffs Reduced Employment at U.S. Factories and hiked prices, Federal Reserve study shows.


"We find that the 2018 tariffs are associated with relative reductions in manufacturing employment and relative increases in producer price.

Some executives have blamed import tariffs for higher costs including heavy equipment manufacturer Caterpillar CAT, +0.04%."



Is anyone surprised?
Click to expand...

Not in the least...exactly the outcome anybody with a brain should have expected.
 
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