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Is flag burning a protected free speech right? Apparently not in Ames, Iowa

Lisa said:
Black on white violence, like white on black crime is not necessarily a hate crime. For an action to be a hate crime there is a very clear and narrowly defined set of actions and motives of the crime that must be met. You should take 5 minutes and learn what those are and what they are not.

Learn About Hate Crimes | HATECRIMES | Department of Justice
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Leftists label crimes committed by non-leftists as hate crimes as though crimes committed by leftists are not hate crimes.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
"Hate crime" laws are sentence enhancers.

They are tacked on to existing crimes motivated by hatred.
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Leftists see crimes committed by non-leftists as much more serious than similar crimes committed by leftists.
 
marke said:
Blacks stole an American flag from some white passersby and burned it in front of Maxine Waters' house, but they were not arrested because of perversion of judgment and justice which affects our modern judicial system.
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I don't care about your little story. It means nothing to the case you cited.

Stop fulminating hate with half told stories. Its a sin.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
I think you're not following how this works.

Very few prosecutors are "leftists".
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Are crimes against white Christians hate crimes? No. Workplace violence or something else, but not hate crimes. Crimes committed against Black Christians, on the other hand, are hate crimes. Anyone with a college degree from a liberal arts secular university thinks like that.
 
marke said:
Are crimes against white Christians hate crimes? No. Workplace violence or something else, but not hate crimes. Crimes committed against Black Christians, on the other hand, are hate crimes. Anyone with a college degree from a liberal arts secular university thinks like that.
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If a white christian is targeted as a victim due to their race or religion, than yes - it is a hate crime.

I don't believe you are in a position to speak for "anyone with a college degree."
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
If a white christian is targeted as a victim due to their race or religion, than yes - it is a hate crime.

I don't believe you are in a position to speak for "anyone with a college degree."
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If a white Christian is assaulted for supporting Trump would that be a hate crime? If a black is assaulted for supporting Obama would that be a hate crime? I say yes, both are crimes of stupid ungodly unjustified hate.
 
marke said:
Yes, in my closet.
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What supposed evidence of Obama being both gay and Muslim do you have in your closet?

Obama must be the worst Muslim ever because here is her with Tony Bourdain in Vietnam publically eating pork and drinking beer in a street food cafe.

YouTube
 
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marke said:
If a white Christian is assaulted for supporting Trump would that be a hate crime? If a black is assaulted for supporting Obama would that be a hate crime? I say yes, both are crimes of stupid ungodly unjustified hate.
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Neither political ideology, nor support for a specific politician is a protected class under any hate crime statutes.

So no - neither would be a hate crime.
 
marke said:
Are crimes against white Christians hate crimes? No. Workplace violence or something else, but not hate crimes. Crimes committed against Black Christians, on the other hand, are hate crimes. Anyone with a college degree from a liberal arts secular university thinks like that.
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You are unhinged tonight.

They are hate crimes if the premeditated crime was committed purely on the basis if their religious beliefs or their skin color.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
If a white christian is targeted as a victim due to their race or religion, than yes - it is a hate crime.

I don't believe you are in a position to speak for "anyone with a college degree."
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It's astounding that some people don't know what 'protected class' means. They've been told it's a scam to protect black people.

Next you'll be providing a citation for hate crime convictions against minorities for crimes against a member of a majority.
 
ecofarm said:
It's astounding that some people don't know what 'protected class' means. They've been told it's a scam to protect black people.

Next you'll be providing a citation for hate crime convictions against minorities for crimes against a member of a majority.
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I already brought that up, although I have not yet provided a citation to the statistics.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
I already brought that up, although I have not yet provided a citation to the statistics.
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I've had to Google it because so many people are idiotic about it. There are plenty of black people convicted of hate crimes against white people. And religious minorities for hate crimes against Christians.
 
Lisa said:
What is a republican flag?

A political party affiliation is not an innate characteristic and it is not a protected class, unless gender identity and sexual orientation.
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An American flag that a Republican is holding.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
An American flag that a Republican is holding.
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That isn't a hate crime. It's theft and/or arson. A person's political affiliation is not a protected class.

Why does it seem that more than 50% of the people couldn't pass a civics or political science final exam? How do you expect to have a intelligent discssion of law and politicasa if you don't understand basic concepts?
 
marke said:
Leftists don't generally invoke the hate crime card for any violence but white on black violence, which is the rarest of racist violence in America.
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If a grownup punches a little kid in the face just for wearing a MAGA hat it is a hatecrime but everyone refuses to treat it as such. For some reason they only want to make sure racist and transphobes get extra punishment. Not adult democrats punching republican kids in the face over a hat, which is obviously a hatecrime.
 
Visbek said:
Ugh. Seriously?

This is not a free speech issue.

Martinez was booted from a strip joint. He stole a flag from a church (which by the way had the phrase "God is still speaking" on it), took it out front of the strip joint, doused it in lighter fluid, and lit it on fire.

Martinez, who has a long history of crimes and two previous felony convictions, admitted what he did to the police, including how he was attacking a church for accepting LGBT. He never showed remorse. He made it clear that he intended to reoffend as soon as he got out. As already noted in this thread, those two previous convictions are a major reason why he is facing such a long sentence.

Guess what? The church did not press charges. The church offered to pay Martinez' court fees. The church wanted to find a way to support Martinez' family while he was incarcerated. Despite all that, Martinez threatened Pastor Eileen Gebbie immediately after his sentencing.

It seems rather obvious that under any other circumstances, conservatives would demand a long, long sentence for a repeat felony offender who stole a flag with the phrase "God is still speaking" on it from a church, lit it on fire and harassed people in front of a strip joint, admitted what he did to the police, showed zero remorse in court, and threatened the victims on his way to prison. But since it was an LGBT flag, he's a hero? WTF.
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The judge misconstrued it as felony hatecrime because a fire was involved in the destruction of something less than 50$. He took the flag FROM the property and burned it away from it PROVING that his intent arson, destruction of the establishment, but just a frivilous cost flag which is a misdemeanor. If he would have tried to light the church on fire then the 16 years would be appropriate. The judge conflated it to a felony when it really wasnt.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
If a grownup punches a little kid in the face just for wearing a MAGA hat it is a hatecrime but everyone refuses to treat it as such.
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Political party is not a protected class. You need to learn the basics about this. Why, what, how... You got nothing.
 
Lisa said:
The hate crime law is not a democratic party law. This criminal addition exists to deal with what could also be called a bias crime or a form of domestic terrorism aimed at a group because of their innate characteristics.
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No actually, the Federal law was signed into law by Bill Clinton. most Democrats love the credit for draconian laws. Suirely the Homosexusals hide is thick enough to endure a piece of cloth being burned. Should we take up a collection to replace their alleged flag?
 
dirtpoorchris said:
If a grownup punches a little kid in the face just for wearing a MAGA hat it is a hatecrime but everyone refuses to treat it as such. For some reason they only want to make sure racist and transphobes get extra punishment. Not adult democrats punching republican kids in the face over a hat, which is obviously a hatecrime.
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What you feel is a "hate crime" is irrelevant.

All that matters is the law.
 
Robertinfremont said:
No actually, the Federal law was signed into law by Bill Clinton. most Democrats love the credit for draconian laws. Surely the Homosexuals hide is thick enough to endure a piece of cloth being burned. Should we take up a collection to replace their alleged flag?
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The hate crime law is an extension of Title I of the Civil Rights Act of 1968. It isn't about just a cloth being burned, just as burning the US flag isn't just a piece of cloth. It is a much wider sentiment saying that some people are lesser than others and they deserved to be targeted and victims of crime precisely for who they are. A hate crime is almost to the limit of domestic terrorism but intentionally and carefully targeting a group of people who are usually a minority as a way to send a violent message that they are not welcome.

Do you feel that conservatives are being unfaily targeted by hate crime prosacutions?
 
Lisa said:
The hate crime law is an extension of Title I of the Civil Rights Act of 1968. It isn't about just a cloth being burned, just as burning the US flag isn't just a piece of cloth. It is a much wider sentiment saying that some people are lesser than others and they deserved to be targeted and victims of crime precisely for who they are. A hate crime is almost to the limit of domestic terrorism but intentionally and carefully targeting a group of people who are usually a minority as a way to send a violent message that they are not welcome.

Do you feel that conservatives are being unfaily targeted by hate crime prosacutions?
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I don't know about conservatives and feeling persecuted - but what bothers me is the idea that other premeditated, violent crime is implied to be done out of love and hope for a puppy since hate is a whole separate category

That and a man who committed 3 misdemeanors with an absolute maximum sentence, including his history, of 3 years and 30 days got bumped to over 5 times as long (16 YEARs and 30 days) - why have maximum sentence at all?

We can answer hate with wishing him a life of hell for well over an extra decade or we can give him a court order to get help and become a better person
 
The Facts and Disposition of the Case

Adolfo Martinez
By his own admission, as you can see in a video, Martinez tore down the flag from the church, took it in front of a local dive, and burned it. That was the whole extent of the crime.

Aggravating circumstances made it worse than just that. Martinez is not a pleasant character, to hear Cmdr. Jason Tuttle of the Ames Police tell it. Martinez was a “regular patron” of the bar—where he had been kicked out, after causing a disturbance—in front of which he burned the flag:

He came back [to the bar] at some point and told the bar, the people in the bar, that he was going to burn the place [presumably, the church, not the bar] down, and at that point made a reference to burning “their flag.”


From the OP link. Yep. Seems to be a troll type thread.

The link even shows this guy was not sentenced for merely burning a flag.
/thread fail
 
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Keridan said:
I don't know about conservatives and feeling persecuted - but what bothers me is the idea that other premeditated, violent crime is implied to be done out of love and hope for a puppy since hate is a whole separate category
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What? This makes no sense.

That and a man who committed 3 misdemeanors with an absolute maximum sentence, including his history, of 3 years and 30 days got bumped to over 5 times as long (16 YEARs and 30 days) - why have maximum sentence at all?

We can answer hate with wishing him a life of hell for well over an extra decade or we can give him a court order to get help and become a better person
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Here's a life tip - when you're being sentenced for a crime, don't tell the judge you're going to do it again, and then openly threaten a pastor in the courtroom.

I have a strong feeling that had he not done those things, he would not have recieved the sentence that he did.
 
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