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name things both Ds and Rs (NON-elites, that is) agree on

N

narrowroad

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They both agree that criminals should not be allowed to cross our borders w/o consequences, like being deported. I don't think 10% of the American people believe otherwise

They both agree that neither party ever seems to do anything about certain problems. Uppermost in my mind is the homeless problem.

Can't afford 80% of your check going toward rent (so some rich person can have a fat income)? Too bad. Get another job. Oh, you have children you would like to spend some time with so a 2nd job is not really feasible? Or maybe you just can't find a good paying job? Or maybe no one will hire you? Too bad. That's life. We the politicians are NOT going to make housing affordable. We have priorities.. like getting re-elected.. like impeaching the president because we know he will win in 2020 if we don't.. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.. Oh, you don't have any bootstraps? don't even have any boots? too bad.. Life is hard.. except for us elites in WA, that is... he he... We're not going to change a damn thing (unless it benefits us financially to do so)..
 
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They dont want term limits.
 
Bum said:
They dont want term limits.
Click to expand...

the ones who benefit from long terms in govt are the ones who vote on long terms in govt..

it's so American, isn't it?
 
Isn't Bernie planning on opening the border?
 
narrowroad said:
They both agree that criminals should not be allowed to cross our borders w/o consequences, like being deported. I don't think 10% of the American people believe otherwise

They both agree that neither party ever seems to do anything about certain problems. Uppermost in my mind is the homeless problem.

Can't afford 80% of your check going toward rent (so some rich person can have a fat income)? Too bad. Get another job. Oh, you have children you would like to spend some time with so a 2nd job is not really feasible? Or maybe you just can't find a good paying job? Or maybe no one will hire you? Too bad. That's life. We the politicians are NOT going to make housing affordable. We have priorities.. like getting re-elected.. like impeaching the president because we know he will win in 2020 if we don't.. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.. Oh, you don't have any bootstraps? don't even have any boots? too bad.. Life is hard.. except for us elites in WA, that is... he he... We're not going to change a damn thing (unless it benefits us financially to do so)..
Click to expand...

Our very existence as a free Western industrial power and democratic constitutional republic depends upon liberals and conservatives forgiving the small stuff, recognizing each other's legitimacy and dignity and trying continually to find some common ground.

If you disagree with much of the left's values, but you agree with the notion that there is still some common ground, and you agree that despite your dislike of their values, that they indeed love our country and want some of the same things you do, even if it seems like it comes from a vastly different approach and direction...

Then you're another American who can take part in healing the rift and divide we're currently groaning under.
You're a sane, ethical, principled conservative.

It is OKAY if we fight like cats and dogs, it's as American as "Mom, the flag and apple pie", but at the end of the day, when the wins and losses are all tallied up, it is incumbent upon both sides to attempt to strike reasoned compromise where each side gets at least something they want or need, while ceding some similar goodwill to the other side.

Let's keep disagreeing and wrestling with each other's ideologies but please, let's do it over good food and beer.
Let's do it as civilized and patriotic Americans.

I'll get you a cigar, okay?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Let's keep disagreeing and wrestling with each other's ideologies but please, let's do it over good food and beer.
Let's do it as civilized and patriotic Americans.

I'll get you a cigar, okay?
Click to expand...

Why do I want to say, No, Thanks?

probably bc I am sick and tired of TALKING about problems.. and throwing money at problems, money that strangely always seems to end up in the hands of (guess who?) those who already HAVE it.

so no, I do not want to JUST talk.. cigar or no cigar...

it is past time to make housing for the poor AFFORDABLE
 
narrowroad said:
They both agree that criminals should not be allowed to cross our borders w/o consequences, like being deported. I don't think 10% of the American people believe otherwise

They both agree that neither party ever seems to do anything about certain problems. Uppermost in my mind is the homeless problem.

Can't afford 80% of your check going toward rent (so some rich person can have a fat income)? Too bad. Get another job. Oh, you have children you would like to spend some time with so a 2nd job is not really feasible? Or maybe you just can't find a good paying job? Or maybe no one will hire you? Too bad. That's life. We the politicians are NOT going to make housing affordable. We have priorities.. like getting re-elected.. like impeaching the president because we know he will win in 2020 if we don't.. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.. Oh, you don't have any bootstraps? don't even have any boots? too bad.. Life is hard.. except for us elites in WA, that is... he he... We're not going to change a damn thing (unless it benefits us financially to do so)..
Click to expand...

Can you actually name any "non-elites"?

I'm not certain there are any.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Our very existence as a free Western industrial power and democratic constitutional republic depends upon liberals and conservatives forgiving the small stuff, recognizing each other's legitimacy and dignity and trying continually to find some common ground.

If you disagree with much of the left's values, but you agree with the notion that there is still some common ground, and you agree that despite your dislike of their values, that they indeed love our country and want some of the same things you do, even if it seems like it comes from a vastly different approach and direction...

Then you're another American who can take part in healing the rift and divide we're currently groaning under.
You're a sane, ethical, principled conservative.

It is OKAY if we fight like cats and dogs, it's as American as "Mom, the flag and apple pie", but at the end of the day, when the wins and losses are all tallied up, it is incumbent upon both sides to attempt to strike reasoned compromise where each side gets at least something they want or need, while ceding some similar goodwill to the other side.

Let's keep disagreeing and wrestling with each other's ideologies but please, let's do it over good food and beer.
Let's do it as civilized and patriotic Americans.

I'll get you a cigar, okay?
Click to expand...

Beautifully written! :clap:
 
narrowroad said:
Why do I want to say, No, Thanks?

probably bc I am sick and tired of TALKING about problems.. and throwing money at problems, money that strangely always seems to end up in the hands of (guess who?) those who already HAVE it.

so no, I do not want to JUST talk.. cigar or no cigar...

it is past time to make housing for the poor AFFORDABLE
Click to expand...

You know what I meant.
At the risk of boring everyone else who has already heard stories of my youth to the point of nausea and boredom, I had a part time job as a dishwasher at a greasy spoon in Minneapolis as a college kid in the 1970s and I was able to afford my tiny bachelor pad for $110 a month, and tuition was couch change.

So there you go, we just found some common ground.
 
narrowroad said:
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.. Oh, you don't have any bootstraps? don't even have any boots? too bad.. Life is hard.. except for us elites in WA, that is... he he... We're not going to change a damn thing (unless it benefits us financially to do so).. [/I][/SIZE][/B]
Click to expand...

Republicans want to change plenty eg bring back Republican capitalism so Americans can continue to be the richest people in human history by far. Do you understand?
 
aociswundumho said:
What do you want them to do in order to make housing affordable?
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Well, for starters, some more flexibility in zoning for starters.
I'm not naive so I get that we can't expect so called "tiny homes" next to luxury mansions and condos, but if we're zoning to allow trailer homes, why not let the tiny houses use similar type zoning?

We also need to build more "efficiency" style apartments.
$110 a month in 1977 is about $450 a month today.
My daughter, a stylist in a swanky men's salon, could swing that with ease with plenty to spare.

Our kids need the same chance at upward mobility that we enjoyed back then when we were just starting out at the bottom.
Upward mobility in the form of affordable higher education, affordable housing and affordable health care is well worth the investment because it creates working taxpayers who contribute to the economy and it helps flush out the underclass so they do not become stagnant and corrupt.
 
1. Increased personnel and tech at the border. While Dems are against a wall, most agree that some measures should be taken. Adding personnel jobs (police and judges) is adding permanent jobs while construction is temporary. Tech is generally seen as cost efficient.

2. An infrastructure bill. Commie crap if you ask me, but it looks like both parties are on board for some infrastructure pork.

These two things could be hammered out in no time.
 
Compared with how we were able to live back then, today, "affordable" is not really affordable at all. It's just that you go into debt a little more slowly.
 
narrowroad said:
Why do I want to say, No, Thanks?

probably bc I am sick and tired of TALKING about problems.. and throwing money at problems, money that strangely always seems to end up in the hands of (guess who?) those who already HAVE it.

so no, I do not want to JUST talk.. cigar or no cigar...

it is past time to make housing for the poor AFFORDABLE
Click to expand...

This is a debate website.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Our very existence as a free Western industrial power and democratic constitutional republic depends upon liberals and conservatives forgiving the small stuff, recognizing each other's legitimacy and dignity and trying continually to find some common ground.

If you disagree with much of the left's values, but you agree with the notion that there is still some common ground, and you agree that despite your dislike of their values, that they indeed love our country and want some of the same things you do, even if it seems like it comes from a vastly different approach and direction...

Then you're another American who can take part in healing the rift and divide we're currently groaning under.
You're a sane, ethical, principled conservative.

It is OKAY if we fight like cats and dogs, it's as American as "Mom, the flag and apple pie", but at the end of the day, when the wins and losses are all tallied up, it is incumbent upon both sides to attempt to strike reasoned compromise where each side gets at least something they want or need, while ceding some similar goodwill to the other side.

Let's keep disagreeing and wrestling with each other's ideologies but please, let's do it over good food and beer.
Let's do it as civilized and patriotic Americans.

I'll get you a cigar, okay?
Click to expand...
This is well put, CS. Amazing well. I can't find anything major to disagree on. I would just add that our disagreements should be over ideas and thoughts, not the person you're talking to. I sincerely hope we all are working to similar objectives; that we still have similar overarching visions of how we would like America to look. Honestly though, I fear that's not case, at least for some people. I fear there's a radicalizing influence in our society - on both sides of the aisle.

I've seen the charm growing over the last four or five years. I've had friends whose company I enjoyed, maybe watching a ball game, or just yakking over pizza and beer, suddenly just break all connection. I had a nice lady friend of over three years suddenly come undo and accuse me of being a white supremacist, fascist, and a couple of other terms that the forum software would turn into asterisks. This happened almost over night. She was part of that pizza & beer gang and suddenly it was "I can't stand to drink a beer with people like you (and at least one other person on this forum). It was sad because for most of our time together we were able to discuss issues like above.

There are a few people on DP that seem to be able to still stick to issues, but it's a minority. I wish there were more. And in full mea culpa mode, I've noticed myself getting more strident and confrontational lately. Patience and tolerance are not my premier virtues.

Again thanks for the post.
 
James972 said:
Republicans want to change plenty eg bring back Republican capitalism so Americans can continue to be the richest people in human history by far. Do you understand?
Click to expand...

America gave up on that kind of capitalism at the end of the 19th century- with ever increasing exploitation of child labor and the rise of monopolies and robber barons.

This is even worse than the Russians getting nostalgic over communism.
 
ecofarm said:
1. Increased personnel and tech at the border. While Dems are against a wall, most agree that some measures should be taken. Adding personnel jobs (police and judges) is adding permanent jobs while construction is temporary. Tech is generally seen as cost efficient.

2. An infrastructure bill. Commie crap if you ask me, but it looks like both parties are on board for some infrastructure pork.

These two things could be hammered out in no time.
Click to expand...

I am not even against a wall, okay?
I just realize that it's an incredibly stupid idea in places where it won't work, and that there are better options.
Punishing employers who hire illegals IS THE ALL TIME BEST OPTION, and that is indisputable PROVIDED we ALSO make it easier/affordable to apply for a temp guest worker visa, and/or a Green Card.

If we have the background checks, we can process these people efficiently like we did at Ellis Island.
I am not even against MERIT based programs, almost every country wants you to score well in order to come in.

What I hate:
The hypocrisy of for-profit detention centers.
NOBODY in that business wants to see illegal immigration come to an end. They want MORE illegals.
Think about it.

And lumping in refugees is just cruel. Sure, not all of them really ARE refugees but I don't think it takes a genius to figure who is and who isn't.

Again, none of this works unless we are punishing employers who hire illegals.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I am not even against a wall, okay?
I just realize that it's an incredibly stupid idea in places where it won't work, and that there are better options.
Punishing employers who hire illegals IS THE ALL TIME BEST OPTION, and that is indisputable PROVIDED we ALSO make it easier/affordable to apply for a temp guest worker visa, and/or a Green Card.

If we have the background checks, we can process these people efficiently like we did at Ellis Island.
I am not even against MERIT based programs, almost every country wants you to score well in order to come in.

What I hate:
The hypocrisy of for-profit detention centers.
NOBODY in that business wants to see illegal immigration come to an end. They want MORE illegals.
Think about it.

And lumping in refugees is just cruel. Sure, not all of them really ARE refugees but I don't think it takes a genius to figure who is and who isn't.

Again, none of this works unless we are punishing employers who hire illegals.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure both parties are with e-verify.

You would support increased personnel and tech at the border?

You would support an infrastructure bill?

I think those two things are slam dunks and representatives are missing an easy opportunity for pork credentials.
 
hermit said:
Compared with how we were able to live back then, today, "affordable" is not really affordable at all. It's just that you go into debt a little more slowly.
Click to expand...

Sure it is.
My daughter works her ass off.
The cheapest place she can find is about 1800 a month...MAYBE 1200 a month if it's a truly scary neighborhood.
She doesn't even NEED a 1 BR, she says she would be happy with a one room efficiency about the size of her current bedroom if it has a bathroom and a tiny kitchenette.

A $450/500 a month efficiency and she would be OUTTA here and adulting on her own like crazy.
She pays US rent instead...super cheap rent but she's good with it.
(Yeah, we've been saving it up for her and she doesn't know that)
 
Bullseye said:
This is well put, CS. Amazing well. I can't find anything major to disagree on. I would just add that our disagreements should be over ideas and thoughts, not the person you're talking to. I sincerely hope we all are working to similar objectives; that we still have similar overarching visions of how we would like America to look. Honestly though, I fear that's not case, at least for some people. I fear there's a radicalizing influence in our society - on both sides of the aisle.

[...]

There are a few people on DP that seem to be able to still stick to issues, but it's a minority. I wish there were more. And in full mea culpa mode, I've noticed myself getting more strident and confrontational lately. Patience and tolerance are not my premier virtues.

Again thanks for the post.
Click to expand...

I swear this is me in real life. I don't have a "DP persona" that I put on.
Too much work!

Yeah, I am a libtard but fer chrissakes, I am not a bleeding heart whiner.
I just remember all the help I got as a young man, and I now realize that help WORKS for those who really need it, and it doesn't work if they don't give a rat's ass, but if people understand that there really IS help in the form of opportunities and upward mobility, a lot of folks will gradually try to step up their game and try harder.

I didn't mind that I lived in a tiny and slightly scuzzy 13 or 14 foot by 20 foot bachelor pad and ate Kraft Mac n' Cheese and hot dogs most of the time because I knew I could pay my dues and move up, which I did. It was a crummy apartment but it was MY apartment, my very first.

That's why I keep harping about that thing I call "The Despair Quotient".
If most people think it's all a sick joke, they say "ahhh **** it" and give up.

If they think it's real, hey....a lot of people have a certain amount of natural ambition. No, not everybody but both libs and cons can then say that we're all doing the best we can, and those who really want it can get it.

A fast churning underclass is like the old Oklahoma land grabs of the 1800's...
It takes upward mobility and opportunity to make that happen.
Right now our underclass is stagnant and it's an infection, and it's growing.
We need to stimulate healthy churn, so that the bottom is viewed as a temporary thing for more people, that's all.
 
ecofarm said:
I'm not sure both parties are with e-verify.

You would support increased personnel and tech at the border?

You would support an infrastructure bill?

I think those two things are slam dunks and representatives are missing an easy opportunity for pork credentials.
Click to expand...

Of course I'd support modern tech.
Put the Terminator down there.
Naah just kidding but sure, if ever there was a place for BIG BROTHER, it's places like the border!!
That's just common sense.

No, neither party has the guts right now to pump some vitamins into e-Verify, it's a big joke right now.
The e-Verify program should be put on par with the new RealID, and it should be mandatory nationwide.
But it can only work if there IS an actual logical system to process genuine immigrants and genuine refugees.

Our immigration system and border security system, for all the window dressing, has not changed for real in almost 75 years...it's a big fat joke.
Kris Kristofferson and Kurtwood Smith were in a movie called "Flashpoint" and this scene pretty much NAILS IT with regard to our approach to illegals.

"It's the American way, pal. Supply and demand."
 
hermit said:
We all want the good life.
Click to expand...

Well, ya gotta pay your dues first.
Unless you are born into wealth, we all start at the bottom and while the bottom tends to suck sometimes, if there's a real ladder with real rungs on it, ambitious people WILL try to climb out of the bottom.
 
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