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One GOP argument against impeaching Trump seems a little absurd to me

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independentusa

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We often hear the GOPers in the House talk about the impeachment going to fast as the House has not gotten every bit of evidence there is as to the possible crimes. I ask myself, why have they not gotten all of the evidence that the GOpers in the House are talking about. Then I remember it is because the President has blocked all of those other possible witnesses and what information might have had a bearing on this case. And are any of these same GOPers willing to go after the president to try and get him to allow everything to be placed on the table,NO. In fact they make excuses for Trump doing so. So it seems that it is kind of absurd for the GOPers to complain about something that they are making happen, the lack of "all" evidence being available for the impeachment process. And there seems to be no question as to the facts, this can be seen by the GOPers talking only about process and not trying to argue the facts.
 
independentusa said:
We often hear the GOPers in the House talk about the impeachment going to fast as the House has not gotten every bit of evidence there is as to the possible crimes. I ask myself, why have they not gotten all of the evidence that the GOpers in the House are talking about. Then I remember it is because the President has blocked all of those other possible witnesses and what information might have had a bearing on this case. And are any of these same GOPers willing to go after the president to try and get him to allow everything to be placed on the table,NO. In fact they make excuses for Trump doing so. So it seems that it is kind of absurd for the GOPers to complain about something that they are making happen, the lack of "all" evidence being available for the impeachment process. And there seems to be no question as to the facts, this can be seen by the GOPers talking only about process and not trying to argue the facts.
Click to expand...

Congress is free to go to court.
A president doesnt lose his rights simply because Congress has decided to impeach.
 
independentusa said:
We often hear the GOPers in the House talk about the impeachment going to fast as the House has not gotten every bit of evidence there is as to the possible crimes. I ask myself, why have they not gotten all of the evidence that the GOpers in the House are talking about. Then I remember it is because the President has blocked all of those other possible witnesses and what information might have had a bearing on this case. And are any of these same GOPers willing to go after the president to try and get him to allow everything to be placed on the table,NO. In fact they make excuses for Trump doing so. So it seems that it is kind of absurd for the GOPers to complain about something that they are making happen, the lack of "all" evidence being available for the impeachment process. And there seems to be no question as to the facts, this can be seen by the GOPers talking only about process and not trying to argue the facts.
Click to expand...

Schiff abused his power by not allowing Republican witnesses. You have it backwards.
 
What we saw today from Horowitz and are seeing now in the House Judiciary Committee is "Social Justice". The arguments Democrats are making just sound totally surreal to me. Their "proof" is nothing more than conjecture and that seems to bee what drove the Page investigation as well. It's all arguments from the standpoint of "this is what we believe is true and therefore it must be true".
 
Athanasius68 said:
Congress is free to go to court.
A president doesnt lose his rights simply because Congress has decided to impeach.
Click to expand...

The president is not within his rights. The Congress has oversight responsibilities and the Constitution mandates his cooperation. His stalling screams his guilt.
 
independentusa said:
We often hear the GOPers in the House talk about the impeachment going to fast as the House has not gotten every bit of evidence there is as to the possible crimes. I ask myself, why have they not gotten all of the evidence that the GOpers in the House are talking about. Then I remember it is because the President has blocked all of those other possible witnesses and what information might have had a bearing on this case. And are any of these same GOPers willing to go after the president to try and get him to allow everything to be placed on the table,NO. In fact they make excuses for Trump doing so. So it seems that it is kind of absurd for the GOPers to complain about something that they are making happen, the lack of "all" evidence being available for the impeachment process. And there seems to be no question as to the facts, this can be seen by the GOPers talking only about process and not trying to argue the facts.
Click to expand...

So here's the thing...right now there is no evidence of any crimes. Why do I say this? Because the two articles of impeachment aren't criminal statutes. They are opinion. The GOP is saying that the Dems need to get actual evidence of crimes and, yes, the White House is blocking various congressional actions but many of their requests are not actual official subpoenas and the ones that are need to be resolved in the courts. The Dems' lame attempt at trying to impeach Trump on "Obstruction of Congress" (not a thing) because Trump is taking them to courts is laughable and shows they don't actually understand basic governmental processes.
 
independentusa said:
We often hear the GOPers in the House talk about the impeachment going to fast as the House has not gotten every bit of evidence there is as to the possible crimes. I ask myself, why have they not gotten all of the evidence that the GOpers in the House are talking about. Then I remember it is because the President has blocked all of those other possible witnesses and what information might have had a bearing on this case. And are any of these same GOPers willing to go after the president to try and get him to allow everything to be placed on the table,NO. In fact they make excuses for Trump doing so. So it seems that it is kind of absurd for the GOPers to complain about something that they are making happen, the lack of "all" evidence being available for the impeachment process. And there seems to be no question as to the facts, this can be seen by the GOPers talking only about process and not trying to argue the facts.
Click to expand...

The GOP complained that the Mueller investigation was taking too long and when it was finally released they complained that the report was too thick and probably the majority of GOP Congress never bothered to read it. Now the GOP complains that this impeachment is moving way too fast and the evidence way too thin.

They all need a binky

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bearpoker said:
The president is not within his rights. The Congress has oversight responsibilities and the Constitution mandates his cooperation. His stalling screams his guilt.
Click to expand...

Well, if Congress chose to exercise its oversite responsibilities instead of its impeachment authority, perhaps Trump would have been more cooperative.
 
Fishking said:
So here's the thing...right now there is no evidence of any crimes. Why do I say this? Because the two articles of impeachment aren't criminal statutes. They are opinion. The GOP is saying that the Dems need to get actual evidence of crimes and, yes, the White House is blocking various congressional actions but many of their requests are not actual official subpoenas and the ones that are need to be resolved in the courts. The Dems' lame attempt at trying to impeach Trump on "Obstruction of Congress" (not a thing) because Trump is taking them to courts is laughable and shows they don't actually understand basic governmental processes.
Click to expand...

The evidence is overwhelming that Trump abused his power by pressuring Ukraine and its new president to investigate a political opponent. The scheme by Trump was brazen and so clear, it's been supported by documents, actions, sworn testimony, and uncontradicted, contemporaneous records.
 
Lutherf said:
What we saw today from Horowitz and are seeing now in the House Judiciary Committee is "Social Justice". The arguments Democrats are making just sound totally surreal to me. Their "proof" is nothing more than conjecture and that seems to bee what drove the Page investigation as well. It's all arguments from the standpoint of "this is what we believe is true and therefore it must be true".
Click to expand...

EXCELLENT post. I really hadn't thought of the SJW angle.
 
Paradoxical said:
Schiff abused his power by not allowing Republican witnesses. You have it backwards.
Click to expand...

He did not. I know people on the right don't like to be reminded of this, and maybe some don't even know this, but the House Democrats followed the rules of procedures and protocol. The rules of the proceedings were consistent with the rules that were written in January 2015. And who signed them? John Boehner, the Republican speaker of the House. And who enacted them? A Republican majority.

So look, if you're going to continue to complain and cry about the House rules, you can blame the GOP for them.
 
bearpoker said:
The president is not within his rights. The Congress has oversight responsibilities and the Constitution mandates his cooperation. His stalling screams his guilt.
Click to expand...

Yes I don't think he would be in as much trouble if he hadn't defused to cooperate, but we already know he's not the sharpest crayon in the box.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Congress is free to go to court.
A president doesnt lose his rights simply because Congress has decided to impeach.
Click to expand...

Yeah and by the time it makes it thorough the court we will all be long dead. This is simply the trump way, stall. The same thing he did iin business when he failed to pay people who provided services and he did not want to pay his bills. take them to court and stall, only this time it is on our dime.
 
Paradoxical said:
Schiff abused his power by not allowing Republican witnesses. You have it backwards.
Click to expand...

The only witnesses that the GOP wanted was the whistlelbower and Hunter Biden. The whistleblower is by law protected and had no real first hand information as as the GOP itself said. they just wanted to punish the whistleblower from coming forward and to keep anyone else from coming forward. And Hunter Biden, that was just a way of punishing Joe Biden, which is exactly what this is all about. If you want to go after children of high ranking people for corruption, start with the trump kids. They said Hunter Biden got his job due to his father and did not know anything but got paid a million. Look at the jobs the trump's kids got where they did not know what they were doing but got paid almost a hnfred million. And Hunter Biden did not know what trump was doing, so he could not be a witness to anything that concerns this case.
 
Lutherf said:
What we saw today from Horowitz and are seeing now in the House Judiciary Committee is "Social Justice". The arguments Democrats are making just sound totally surreal to me. Their "proof" is nothing more than conjecture and that seems to bee what drove the Page investigation as well. It's all arguments from the standpoint of "this is what we believe is true and therefore it must be true".
Click to expand...

What a pile. You sound just like the old GOP talking points, which you seem to follow. Trump said out loud that he wanted something before he would give the money to Ukraine and later said he wanted Ukraine to investigate the Bidens. there is no question and none of the GOPers actually today really questioned the truth of the allegations.
 
Fishking said:
So here's the thing...right now there is no evidence of any crimes. Why do I say this? Because the two articles of impeachment aren't criminal statutes. They are opinion. The GOP is saying that the Dems need to get actual evidence of crimes and, yes, the White House is blocking various congressional actions but many of their requests are not actual official subpoenas and the ones that are need to be resolved in the courts. The Dems' lame attempt at trying to impeach Trump on "Obstruction of Congress" (not a thing) because Trump is taking them to courts is laughable and shows they don't actually understand basic governmental processes.
Click to expand...

I guess you know nothing about impeachment. There does not have to be a crime that fits the criminal statutes. Look at some of the words spoken by the Gopers who are now protecting Trump when they went after Clinton. And wheen Nixon was going to be impeached, he too was charged with Obstruction of congress. Learn some history!!!!
 
HumblePi said:
The evidence is overwhelming that Trump abused his power by pressuring Ukraine and its new president to investigate a political opponent. The scheme by Trump was brazen and so clear, it's been supported by documents, actions, sworn testimony, and uncontradicted, contemporaneous records.
Click to expand...

Uh huh...then why was there no attempt at charging him for bribery, which would be what it would fall under if they actually thought they had the goods on him. Fact is, there is no crime being levied against Trump, just opinion. Also, you must've been watching different testimony because every single one was asked, point blank, if they had evidence or were aware of Trump or anyone demanding from Ukraine to investigate Biden for $$ or any such thing. Every single one said, "no".
 
Athanasius68 said:
Well, if Congress chose to exercise its oversite responsibilities instead of its impeachment authority, perhaps Trump would have been more cooperative.
Click to expand...

That makes no sense at all. The House tried to exercise it oversight responsibilities, but all trump did was refuse to answer the subpoenas sent by congress and in doing so obstructed congress in the very oversight responsibilities you are talking about.
 
bearpoker said:
The relevant Republican witnesses were allowed. The circus was not.
Click to expand...

Schiff decided who was relevant. Same way the Gestapo works.

I think Trump wants a trial. Joe and his son will be asked to appear, Chalupa, schiff, etc. Bide said he wouldn't testify. Let's see how that works.
 
HumblePi said:
He did not. I know people on the right don't like to be reminded of this, and maybe some don't even know this, but the House Democrats followed the rules of procedures and protocol. The rules of the proceedings were consistent with the rules that were written in January 2015. And who signed them? John Boehner, the Republican speaker of the House. And who enacted them? A Republican majority.

So look, if you're going to continue to complain and cry about the House rules, you can blame the GOP for them.
Click to expand...

Boehner wrote impeachment of a president rules? Link please.

Tell me all the witnesses for Republicans.
 
Fishking said:
Uh huh...then why was there no attempt at charging him for bribery, which would be what it would fall under if they actually thought they had the goods on him. Fact is, there is no crime being levied against Trump, just opinion. Also, you must've been watching different testimony because every single one was asked, point blank, if they had evidence or were aware of Trump or anyone demanding from Ukraine to investigate Biden for $$ or any such thing. Every single one said, "no".
Click to expand...

For the simple reason that they don't need a whole bunch of indictments, it would only further delay the proceedings and they have enough evidence based on abuse of power and obstruction of justice. Of course he committed crimes.
 
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independentusa said:
The only witnesses that the GOP wanted was the whistlelbower and Hunter Biden. The whistleblower is by law protected and had no real first hand information as as the GOP itself said. they just wanted to punish the whistleblower from coming forward and to keep anyone else from coming forward. And Hunter Biden, that was just a way of punishing Joe Biden, which is exactly what this is all about. If you want to go after children of high ranking people for corruption, start with the trump kids. They said Hunter Biden got his job due to his father and did not know anything but got paid a million. Look at the jobs the trump's kids got where they did not know what they were doing but got paid almost a hnfred million. And Hunter Biden did not know what trump was doing, so he could not be a witness to anything that concerns this case.
Click to expand...

Please show me the link where it says a whistleblower can't be made to testify.

Trump's kids didn't make their money by influence peddling so there is no comparison.

You avoid the question of why an innocent man (Biden) would be worried about an investigation. Trump wasn't.
 
independentusa said:
I guess you know nothing about impeachment. There does not have to be a crime that fits the criminal statutes. Look at some of the words spoken by the Gopers who are now protecting Trump when they went after Clinton. And wheen Nixon was going to be impeached, he too was charged with Obstruction of congress. Learn some history!!!!
Click to expand...

You're correct. There doesn't need to be a crime. I know that perfectly. Impeachment is a political process. However, impeaching a President over opinion, and no criminal act, is just partisan hackery.
 
HumblePi said:
For the simple reason that they don't need a whole bunch of indictments, it would only further delay the proceedings and they have enough evidence based on abuse of power and obstruction of justice. Of course he committed crimes.
Click to expand...

I just told you they don't. All the witnesses said the same thing. There is nothing connecting Ukrainian aide to investigating Biden's son. All the witnesses said this.
 
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