• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Some interesting maps on approval, right/wrong track, and impeachment

Cardinal

Respected On All Sides
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
111,874
Reaction score
109,296
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
These are interactive maps based on the findings from the Civiqs polls. I've compared the national polling numbers with those of 538's averages and they hew pretty closely, so I don't think these are outliers. For the record, the 538 averages I'm comparing Civiqs to also samples registered voters (where possible) in order to compare apples to apples.

Based on the fact that the popular vote result doesn't really mean a whole lot anymore in practical terms, I've only used maps that pertain to the Electoral College.

A solid color ("safe") is ten points or more from the middle, mid-value color ("likely") is 3-9 points from the middle, light-color ("lean") indicates a result inside the margin of error, and grayest color (tipping point) is practically tied but does tilt ever so slightly to one side of the political aisle.

Sadly, Democratic candidate approval by state isn't available yet.

First, here's an electoral college map based on Trump's approval. In a normal universe, this map would be devastating to the Republican candidate. But...we don't live in a normal universe. Trump is a populist President whose base quite literally hates Democrats, so you could easily have a state with a whole lot of Republicans who don't like Trump, but they'll vote for him anyway because liberal tears. Still, the map has value.

Using the metric of Trump's approval by itself, Republicans could pick off every single Democratic state inside the margin of error and still lose the White House.

map-approval.webp

https://civiqs.com/results/approve_president_trump?uncertainty=true&annotations=true&zoomIn=true

The second map answers the question, "Are we on the right track?" Blue indicates no, red, yes. But you want to be careful about reading too much into this map. Yes, if Republicans thought Trump was doing absolutely the right thing, you would think they would agree the country is on the right track. But there are other ways to read into it. A Republican could just as easily think the country is on the wrong track because Democrats have stalled his legislative agenda. Regardless, Trump is in charge of the country and with the Senate, his judicial agenda is guaranteed and he's not going anywhere. Republicans are effectively in control of the country, so the results of this map really isn't a great look for Trump. Anyway, make of the map what you will. If nothing else, you can take note of the literally the three states that believe everything is okey donkey.

map-track.webp

https://civiqs.com/results/track_country?uncertainty=true&annotations=true&zoomIn=true

The third map is, in my mind, the most illustrative. It's one thing to not like the President, and it's another to think we're not on the right track, but it's something else altogether to decide that the President should be removed from office before he completes his first term. That's a bit different than, "Meh, don't like the guy but I could live with him another four years." That also communicates to me a certain motivation to participate in the 2020 election rather than staying home out of apathy or demoralization.

The map also answers (for now, at least) the question: is impeachment helping Trump's re-election prospects? For now, the answer to that is a resounding "no."

That said, I also think this maps illustrates that while there's a clear path for a Democrat to the White House in 2020, it equally illustrates what a razor's edge that path is. If Democrats sit out 2020 like they did in 2016, then Republicans would only need to pick off a couple blue-lean states to keep the White House.

map-impeach.webp

https://civiqs.com/results/trump_impeachment?uncertainty=true&annotations=true&zoomIn=true

2020 Presidential Election Interactive Map
 
Last edited:
To read that last map yet another way, combined with the approval ma you can conclude that the states that hate trump have simply decided that impeachment is not the appropriate tool for dealing with him.
 
Meaningless fodder for conspiracy theorists.

Trump will serve until January 2025.
 
Yeah, cause **** research and intellectual **** like that, right?

[/sarcasm]

Conspiracy theories are often presented in complex, extruded & ancillary form (aka baffle them with bull****), and bought into by highly intelligent people.

But they're still conspiracy theories, and must be dismissed as such in order to maintain basic intellectual integrity.

:)
 
Conspiracy theories are often presented in complex, extruded & ancillary form (aka baffle them with bull****), and bought into by highly intelligent people.

But they're still conspiracy theories, and must be dismissed as such in order to maintain basic intellectual integrity.

:)

I guess the first question ask would be what is the conspiracy theory you speak of?
 
I guess the first question ask would be what is the conspiracy theory you speak of?

Theories.

Having had more than THREE YEARS to examine & correct widespread criminally insane behavior within their party, Democrats have instead gone off the deep end into complete fantasy, and are trying to drag the country down with them.

These polls are as meaningful as ones which might speculate about public acceptance of various unhinged & baseless 9/11 conspiracy theories.

They're an attempt to justify and normalize criminally insane concepts and behavior.

To buy into insanity = Insanity
 
Theories.

Having had more than THREE YEARS to examine & correct widespread criminally insane behavior within their party, Democrats have instead gone off the deep end into complete fantasy, and are trying to drag the country down with them.

These polls are as meaningful as ones which might speculate about public acceptance of various unhinged & baseless 9/11 conspiracy theories.

They're an attempt to justify and normalize criminally insane concepts and behavior.

To buy into insanity = Insanity

Something tells me that if those maps were all red and said that the world loved Donald Trump, you would be claiming something else entirely.
 
These are interactive maps based on the findings from the Civiqs polls. I've compared the national polling numbers with those of 538's averages and they hew pretty closely, so I don't think these are outliers. For the record, the 538 averages I'm comparing Civiqs to also samples registered voters (where possible) in order to compare apples to apples.
https://civiqs.com/results/trump_impeachment?uncertainty=true&annotations=true&zoomIn=true

By now, you know that I am interested in sampling data...specifically, sampling in terms of party affiliation. So...let's take a look, shall we?

Oh...damn it!...these Civiqs people don't give sampling data. Well, that sucks. Without numbers I can't determine whether to REJECT or APPROVE this poll.

On the other hand, Cardinal, you say this poll's results "hew pretty closely" to the 538's averages. If true, that's not really a good thing because the bulk of the polls 538 uses in their aggregate are polls that over sample Dems, sometimes Reps...and GROSSLY under sample Inds. But, of course, without the hard numbers we just don't know one way or the other about Civiqs.

And then there's the fact that this is an "opt-in online poll". This is what 538 has to say about the issue...

So why not turn to online polls or other new technologies? Well, the problem is that in recent elections, polls that use live interviewers to call both landlines and cellphones continue to outperform other methods, such as online and automated (IVR) polls. Moreover, online and IVR polls are generally more prone toward herding — that is, making methodological choices, or picking and choosing which results they publish, in ways that make their polls match other, more traditional polls. So not only are online and automated polls somewhat less accurate than live-caller polls, but they’d probably suffer a further decline in accuracy if they didn’t have live polls to herd toward.

The State Of The Polls, 2019 | FiveThirtyEight

Given all this, I'm inclined to suggest, Cardinal, that you don't pop any champagne corks yet.
 
These are interactive maps based on the findings from the Civiqs polls. I've compared the national polling numbers with those of 538's averages and they hew pretty closely, so I don't think these are outliers. For the record, the 538 averages I'm comparing Civiqs to also samples registered voters (where possible) in order to compare apples to apples.

Based on the fact that the popular vote result doesn't really mean a whole lot anymore in practical terms, I've only used maps that pertain to the Electoral College.

A solid color ("safe") is ten points or more from the middle, mid-value color ("likely") is 3-9 points from the middle, light-color ("lean") indicates a result inside the margin of error, and grayest color (tipping point) is practically tied but does tilt ever so slightly to one side of the political aisle.

Sadly, Democratic candidate approval by state isn't available yet.

First, here's an electoral college map based on Trump's approval. In a normal universe, this map would be devastating to the Republican candidate. But...we don't live in a normal universe. Trump is a populist President whose base quite literally hates Democrats, so you could easily have a state with a whole lot of Republicans who don't like Trump, but they'll vote for him anyway because liberal tears. Still, the map has value.

Using the metric of Trump's approval by itself, Republicans could pick off every single Democratic state inside the margin of error and still lose the White House.

View attachment 67269584

https://civiqs.com/results/approve_president_trump?uncertainty=true&annotations=true&zoomIn=true

The second map answers the question, "Are we on the right track?" Blue indicates no, red, yes. But you want to be careful about reading too much into this map. Yes, if Republicans thought Trump was doing absolutely the right thing, you would think they would agree the country is on the right track. But there are other ways to read into it. A Republican could just as easily think the country is on the wrong track because Democrats have stalled his legislative agenda. Regardless, Trump is in charge of the country and with the Senate, his judicial agenda is guaranteed and he's not going anywhere. Republicans are effectively in control of the country, so the results of this map really isn't a great look for Trump. Anyway, make of the map what you will. If nothing else, you can take note of the literally the three states that believe everything is okey donkey.

View attachment 67269585

https://civiqs.com/results/track_country?uncertainty=true&annotations=true&zoomIn=true

The third map is, in my mind, the most illustrative. It's one thing to not like the President, and it's another to think we're not on the right track, but it's something else altogether to decide that the President should be removed from office before he completes his first term. That's a bit different than, "Meh, don't like the guy but I could live with him another four years." That also communicates to me a certain motivation to participate in the 2020 election rather than staying home out of apathy or demoralization.

The map also answers (for now, at least) the question: is impeachment helping Trump's re-election prospects? For now, the answer to that is a resounding "no."

That said, I also think this maps illustrates that while there's a clear path for a Democrat to the White House in 2020, it equally illustrates what a razor's edge that path is. If Democrats sit out 2020 like they did in 2016, then Republicans would only need to pick off a couple blue-lean states to keep the White House.

View attachment 67269586

https://civiqs.com/results/trump_impeachment?uncertainty=true&annotations=true&zoomIn=true

2020 Presidential Election Interactive Map

Interesting. Thanks for posting this Card! Lots to digest here.
 
Interesting. Thanks for posting this Card! Lots to digest here.

Thanks, but I just caught a goofup in the first map. Washington is supposed to be solid blue instead of solid red. The correction doesn’t change the material conclusion, but still.
 
Thanks, but I just caught a goofup in the first map. Washington is supposed to be solid blue instead of solid red. The correction doesn’t change the material conclusion, but still.

Give Trump a blue crayon and ask him to fix it. He should be able to do that. He's comfortable with the crayons.
 
Thank you for this thread Cardinal! On 12/7/19, in a different thread, you posted a Civiqs Poll on Impeachment sentiment. That post immediately caught my interest, generated hours of fun research and inspired creating a related thread.

My criticism with a poll from Civiqs lies in it's connection to Kos Media. This gives their poll a liberal-leaning bias, much like a Rasmussen poll has a conservative-leaning bias.

For instance, the Civiqs poll showed Wisconsin voters favoring impeachment by 50% to 47%. I think an aggregate of other major polls would not show Wisconsin voters favoring impeachment.

Nonetheless, I think we Anti-Trumpers have ample cause for optimism!

When adding 'Shoe In' EVs plus 'Likely EVs', my calculations result in: Anti-Trumpers 263 v. Trumpers 250.

I have AZ 10; WI 10 and NH 4 as the most robust 'Toss Up' states. Trump took AZ and WI in 2016.

We have plenty to feel good about and much to fight for! I promise to add value to the fight in Florida! Keep Believing!

Dogfight Brewing! 2020 Forecast
Frankly, there are too many moving parts for me to keep track of. All I can say for a fact is that going by the sole metric of which states support impeachment, trump loses in a landslide.

https://civiqs.com/results/trump_impeachment?uncertainty=true&annotations=true&zoomIn=true

Make of that what you will.
 
Thank you for this thread Cardinal! On 12/7/19, in a different thread, you posted a Civiqs Poll on Impeachment sentiment. That post immediately caught my interest, generated hours of fun research and inspired creating a related thread.

My criticism with a poll from Civiqs lies in it's connection to Kos Media. This gives their poll a liberal-leaning bias, much like a Rasmussen poll has a conservative-leaning bias.

For instance, the Civiqs poll showed Wisconsin voters favoring impeachment by 50% to 47%. I think an aggregate of other major polls would not show Wisconsin voters favoring impeachment.

Nonetheless, I think we Anti-Trumpers have ample cause for optimism!

When adding 'Shoe In' EVs plus 'Likely EVs', my calculations result in: Anti-Trumpers 263 v. Trumpers 250.

I have AZ 10; WI 10 and NH 4 as the most robust 'Toss Up' states. Trump took AZ and WI in 2016.

We have plenty to feel good about and much to fight for! I promise to add value to the fight in Florida! Keep Believing!

Dogfight Brewing! 2020 Forecast

Trippy Trekker, your concerns were mine as well, which is precisely why I compared Civiqs results to the 538 averages (where such comparisons existed) to see if their results were an outlier. Individual state results aside (because 538 doesn’t offer those), the averages hewed extremely closely to the 538 averages.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom