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Thread: AOC was Right About Amazon

  1. #101
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    Re: AOC was Right About Amazon

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Female optics. If a man is right, nothing else matters. A man could dance and sing, and they'd say, "well, he was right".
    Odd that gender even factors into this in your mind, to be honest - also, whole statement hinges on IF he was RIGHT which means a whole different argument
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    Re: AOC was Right About Amazon

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Odd that gender even factors into this in your mind, to be honest - also, whole statement hinges on IF he was RIGHT which means a whole different argument
    She was right. Deal with it.

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    Re: AOC was Right About Amazon

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    She was right. Deal with it.
    She was right to cheer the loss for over 23,000 jobs and 10s of billions in tax revenue?

    EDIT: Or she was right to act smug about it?
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  4. #104
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    Re: AOC was Right About Amazon

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    She was right to cheer the loss for over 23,000 jobs and 10s of billions in tax revenue?

    EDIT: Or she was right to act smug about it?
    She was right in that the government should not steal from the poor to give to the rich.
    "Donald Trump is Jesus to followers of Jesus who reject the actual teachings of Jesus."

    Found on twitter

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    Re: AOC was Right About Amazon

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    She was right in that the government should not steal from the poor to give to the rich.
    Sure, why accept only 27 bil when you can get a full zero!?

    EDIT: I should probably admit it's a good thing all those high-income jobs didn't come in or that all that additional tax revenue couldn't be used to help fund aid programs - it could have just destroyed the local economy and we just can't have people thinking that jobs and tax revenue help an area if it means having to give up a small portion to help people
    Last edited by Keridan; 12-08-19 at 05:36 PM.
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    Re: AOC was Right About Amazon

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    Outfits like AMZ routinely make pie-in-the-sky predictions as to how many jobs will be created
    Quote Originally Posted by dairyair View Post
    You don't know how many jobs were going to be there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    False claim. There's no evidence these jobs would have been created.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    As Checkerboard pointed out, there is no real number here, BUT the predictions for the HQ they were planning were put at 25k higher end jobs (I believe averaging 150k)
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Year one. The 25K was to be achieved by year 10. But you wouldn't know the facts, would you?
    I would have loved for AOC to be right, but I think this whole episode is a negative for her, not a positive considering that Amazon is NOT not going to add anywhere close to what was discussed and AOC apparently pretending like Amazon is doing same thing as they would have done anyway.

    To be clear, I am not saying she was wrong about her opposition to HQ2 since I don't know if $3B would have been worth it or not. But what she is doing now - pretending like she was right is clearly wrong based on what I see going on here.

    Amazon indeed said it would create 25,000 jobs in each of the two HQ2 locations and also listed up to 8 million square feet to be available for its expansion. A far cry from 1,500 jobs in 335k sq ft.

    Further, Amazon has ALWAYS claimed it would continue to expand its NYC workforce, even without the HQ2 there:

    When it dropped the Queens project in February, the company said it had more than 5,000 employees in Brooklyn, Manhattan and Staten Island, where it operates a warehouse, and that it planned “to continue growing these teams.”

    On Friday, it put the size of its New York City work force at over 8,000, with 3,500 of those employed at what it calls its New York City tech hub. It was unclear whether the 1,500 people expected to work in the 10th Avenue building starting in late 2021 would fill newly created positions.
    Now, all these points about who knows how many jobs they would have created would be valid EXCEPT look at what the OTHER HQ2 location did: it provided incentives to Amazon "based on whether Amazon created 25,000 jobs".

    So, if Amazon does not keep up with their promises of jobs (and I assume level-of-jobs could also be part of that agreement), they don't get as much money.

    This will assure that the city will pay ONLY IF Amazon grows as much as it claimed.

    Nothing prevented NYC from structuring the deal the same way.
    Last edited by Slavister; 12-08-19 at 05:47 PM.

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    Re: AOC was Right About Amazon

    Quote Originally Posted by Slavister View Post
    I would have loved for AOC to be right, but I think this whole episode is a negative for her, not a positive considering that Amazon is NOT not going to add anywhere close to what was discussed and AOC apparently pretending like Amazon is doing same thing as they would have done anyway.

    To be clear, I am not saying she was wrong about her opposition to HQ2 since I don't know if $3B would have been worth it or not. But what she is doing now - pretending like she was right is clearly wrong based on what I see going on here.

    Amazon indeed said it would create 25,000 jobs in each of the two HQ2 locations and also listed up to 8 million square feet to be available for its expansion. A far cry from 1,500 jobs in 335k sq ft.

    Further, Amazon has ALWAYS claimed it would continue to expand its NYC workforce, even without the HQ2 there:



    Now all these points about who knows how many jobs they would have created are value EXCEPT look at what the OTHER HQ2 location did: it provided incentives to Amazon "based on whether Amazon created 25,000 jobs".

    So, if Amazon does not keep up with their promises of jobs (and I assume level-of-jobs could also be part of that agreement), they don't get as much money.

    This will assure that the City will pay ONLY IF Amazon grows as much as it claimed.

    Nothing prevented NYC from structuring the deal the same way.
    A thorough and intelligent analysis - thank you
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  8. #108
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    Re: AOC was Right About Amazon

    Quote Originally Posted by Slavister View Post
    I would have loved for AOC to be right, but I think this whole episode is a negative for her, not a positive considering that Amazon is NOT not going to add anywhere close to what was discussed and AOC apparently pretending like Amazon is doing same thing as they would have done anyway.
    ...
    Amazon indeed said it would create 25,000 jobs in each of the two HQ2 locations and also listed up to 8 million square feet to be available for its expansion. A far cry from 1,500 jobs in 335k sq ft.

    Further, Amazon has ALWAYS claimed it would continue to expand its NYC workforce, even without the HQ2 there:

    So, if Amazon does not keep up with their promises of jobs (and I assume level-of-jobs could also be part of that agreement), they don't get as much money.
    ...
    Nothing prevented NYC from structuring the deal the same way.
    Exactly. Excellent post, with a total demolition of other points made here. /thread.

    AOC is being disingenuous, like you've proven above. Once more, it is demonstrated how some people don't understand the realities of the workforce in our corporate capitalist system. People then issue misinformed, arrogant, and utterly unjustifiably condescending statements about it, completely ignoring how harmful this whole ordeal was to the community that AOC was supposed to represent.

    See, this is why I don't like AOC. She is divisive and a lot less honest than the people who idolize her think. She issues half-baked ideas, falls flat on her face, then tries to twist it, and finally when it all fails, goes after people in her own party who are trying to undo the damage.

    I think that an immature and inexperienced congresswoman like AOC is causing damage to the very causes she seems to believe in. She becomes an easy target for ridicule by conservatives, and drags down the whole party with her. When she pretends that 1,500 = 25,000, it is not hard for conservatives to say "see how these progressives are dishonest and completely misguided and hurt their communities? Vote conservative instead, if you want to get ahead in life." And I'm sorry to say, at least in this particular episode, they have a point.

    AOC should keep a low profile and learn the ropes, and think twice before speaking. If she did that, maybe in a few years she would be a real positive force for the party, for her constituents, and for her progressive ideals. The way she's been operating, she is actually hurtful to these causes, and she is too arrogant to realize it.

    I blame Nancy Pelosi. She should have been able to rein in disruptive members of her caucus who end up bringing the party down.

  9. #109
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    Re: AOC was Right About Amazon

    Quote Originally Posted by Slavister View Post
    I would have loved for AOC to be right, but I think this whole episode is a negative for her, not a positive considering that Amazon is NOT not going to add anywhere close to what was discussed and AOC apparently pretending like Amazon is doing same thing as they would have done anyway.

    To be clear, I am not saying she was wrong about her opposition to HQ2 since I don't know if $3B would have been worth it or not. But what she is doing now - pretending like she was right is clearly wrong based on what I see going on here.

    Amazon indeed said it would create 25,000 jobs in each of the two HQ2 locations and also listed up to 8 million square feet to be available for its expansion. A far cry from 1,500 jobs in 335k sq ft.

    Further, Amazon has ALWAYS claimed it would continue to expand its NYC workforce, even without the HQ2 there:



    Now, all these points about who knows how many jobs they would have created would be valid EXCEPT look at what the OTHER HQ2 location did: it provided incentives to Amazon "based on whether Amazon created 25,000 jobs".

    So, if Amazon does not keep up with their promises of jobs (and I assume level-of-jobs could also be part of that agreement), they don't get as much money.

    This will assure that the city will pay ONLY IF Amazon grows as much as it claimed.

    Nothing prevented NYC from structuring the deal the same way.
    That is how all incentives should be structured. IMO. Don't know if this was that way or not.
    But I think there was more than just the structure, but the upheaval(for lack of a better word) Amz was going to cause getting that infrastructure in place to accommodate all those people.
    Current residents likely would have been uprooted?

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    Re: AOC was Right About Amazon

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Exactly. Excellent post, with a total demolition of other points made here. /thread.

    AOC is being disingenuous, like you've proven above. Once more, it is demonstrated how some people don't understand the realities of the workforce in our corporate capitalist system. People then issue misinformed, arrogant, and utterly unjustifiably condescending statements about it, completely ignoring how harmful this whole ordeal was to the community that AOC was supposed to represent.

    See, this is why I don't like AOC. She is divisive and a lot less honest than the people who idolize her think. She issues half-baked ideas, falls flat on her face, then tries to twist it, and finally when it all fails, goes after people in her own party who are trying to undo the damage.

    I think that an immature and inexperienced congresswoman like AOC is causing damage to the very causes she seems to believe in. She becomes an easy target for ridicule by conservatives, and drags down the whole party with her. When she pretends that 1,500 = 25,000, it is not hard for conservatives to say "see how these progressives are dishonest and completely misguided and hurt their communities? Vote conservative instead, if you want to get ahead in life." And I'm sorry to say, at least in this particular episode, they have a point.

    AOC should keep a low profile and learn the ropes, and think twice before speaking. If she did that, maybe in a few years she would be a real positive force for the party, for her constituents, and for her progressive ideals. The way she's been operating, she is actually hurtful to these causes, and she is too arrogant to realize it.

    I blame Nancy Pelosi. She should have been able to rein in disruptive members of her caucus who end up bringing the party down.
    Yes, AOC is all what you posted.
    I also believe our prez is exactly the same way.

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