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Giuliani just confessed to the crime. He also revealed something bigger.

Rogue Valley said:
The Hill said adios to Jon Solomon for publishing unsubstantiated conspiracy nonsense. Nonsense that Lutsenko retracted.

And no surprise, Solomon then went to Fox where conspiracy is en vogue.
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If only MSNBC and CNN were so circumspect.:lol:
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Can you come up with something which shows the Biden business is different than a political scam job?
Feel free to post it here.

If the Biden business were real, people would be taking action. Instead, there's only people running their mouth.
If the Biden business were real, the Senate would've started investigations years ago when the whole affair happened in public eye.
If the Biden business were real, the USDOJ would've started investigations years ago when the whole affair happened in public eye.
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It's a sham. Trump and his cohorts are angry because:

- No impropriety has been found regarding Joe Biden and the firing of Viktor Shokin. The US, EU and IMF all demanded that the corrupt Shokin be removed from office.
- The allegations of corruption on the part of the owner of Burisma occurred before Hunter Biden was connected to this company.
- Trumps shakedown of Ukraine was discovered and exposed before it yielded the Biden smears the White House demanded from Kyiv.
- Twelve high ranking government employees testified before the House Intelligence Committee that Trump was engaged in a quid-pro-quo shakedown of the Ukraine government.

Trump, Pence, Pompeo, and their aides are still ignoring legal and valid subpoena's for personal testimony and documents. This stonewalling is, in itself, criminal obstruction.
 
veritas1 said:
He exonerated Trump. He testified that Trump said in regard to Ukraine, "I want nothing. No quid pro quo.". Case dismissed.
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Never mind that cult deprogramming suggestion. That comment tells us you're beyond help.
 
veritas1 said:
If only MSNBC and CNN were so circumspect.:lol:
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No media outsets except OAN and Fox would hire Solomon. His credibility and career are toast.
 
digitusmedius said:
And what exactly are you trying to make out of her comments? No one's denying that there was a potential for a conflict of interest. The problem you have is that there was no actual evidence of any such conflict. Biden, in fact, was critical of Shokin for NOT aggressively investigating potential corruption at Burisma as well as corruption among the oligarchy and prosecutors in general. In the end, all of the investigations of Burisma, including the ones by the UK and the EU were closed without finding evidence of any corruption much less any involvement of Hunter or Joe Biden.
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So what you seem to be saying is that since there is no direct evidence of Biden committing a corrupt act then it shouldn't be investigated but even though there is no direct evidence of Trump tying his investigations to 2020 he should be impeached because Schiff says so.
 
digitusmedius said:
So you admit Solomon's a liar, then. Maybe there is shred of hope for you.
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Not at all. I haven't seen any proof of that. All I've seen is an organization afraid that one guy is getting at uncomfortable facts.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
The Senate because the bar for opening an investigation in the Senate is much lower than the bar for the USDOJ opening an investigation.
The Senate only requires a handful of Senators to desire an investigation.
The GOP controlled Senate could have an investigation going at the whim of fewer than a dozen GOP Senators.

The Senate can investigate the actions of civilians.
Congress can investigate most anything and most anyone at most any time. There are few practical limits on their powers of investigation.
No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the Legislature is in session

The DOJ requires reasonable evidence etc.
A much higher bar.

fwiw, Trump has already done more than he can to investigate the matter— one of the reasons why he's in trouble atm.
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Joe’s a civilian. Isn’t he entitled to “Due Process”? Again, if there was a crime, why hasn’t the DOJ or FBI opened an investigation on it? Is it because there is nothing to find? Why is Trump waffling on this?
 
Lutherf said:
So what you seem to be saying is that since there is no direct evidence of Biden committing a corrupt act then it shouldn't be investigated but even though there is no direct evidence of Trump tying his investigations to 2020 he should be impeached because Schiff says so.
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There is no indirect evidence either. Getting primed for the Trump dictatorship already?
 
veritas1 said:
They don't have to wait but, in the current manic climate fostered by the Democrats' witch hunt, it is probably prudent. They don't want to be accused of sinking Joe's flagging campaign the rest of the way.
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So while Trump's lawyer is in Ukraine telling the world that his client will withhold aid to Ukraine unless they investigate Biden, you feel that the Congress impeaching Trump for withholding aid to Ukraine unless they investigate Biden is a witch hunt? Is that your story?
 
veritas1 said:
Not at all. I haven't seen any proof of that. All I've seen is an organization afraid that one guy is getting at uncomfortable facts.
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This is a very important part of conspiracy mongering - like, somehow, the fruits of the wacky conspirator's labors are just around the corner, and its making those who are exposing the corruption right before our eyes very nervous.

Its a fascinatingly twisted world view.
 
j brown's body said:
So while Trump's lawyer is in Ukraine telling the world that his client will withhold aid to Ukraine unless they investigate Biden, you feel that the Congress impeaching Trump for withholding aid to Ukraine unless they investigate Biden is a witch hunt? Is that your story?
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No investigation of Biden occurred and Ukraine received its aid, much more lethal aid than Obama ever gave them. So, yea, just another part of the get Trump effort started in November, 2016 or earlier. Hey, Al Green says that you can keep impeaching even after this fails. I highly recommend that course. You might not see the WH for another 3-4 elections.:mrgreen:
 
j brown's body said:
This is a very important part of conspiracy mongering - like, somehow, the fruits of the wacky conspirator's labors are just around the corner, and its making those who are exposing the corruption right before our eyes very nervous.

Its a fascinatingly twisted world view.
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I couldn't have described the Dems effort any better. The fruits of their wacky labors are always just around the corner. I'm still waiting for Schiff to drop the Russia bombshell he kept insisting he had for two years. What a comical clown show.
 
veritas1 said:
No investigation of Biden occurred and Ukraine received its aid, much more lethal aid than Obama ever gave them.
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Ukraine got the aid because the whistleblower exposed the Trump/Giuliani shakedown scheme.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Ukraine got the aid because the whistleblower exposed the Trump/Giuliani shakedown scheme.
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And the lethal aid was due to Congress, not Trump. Trump even told Amb. Sondland that he didn't care about Ukraine (but he sure cares about Russia).
 
veritas1 said:
Run with that. It's sure to work.
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Trump is getting impeached. Not me. The impeachment stink never goes away.

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Rogue Valley said:
It was Trump on the July 25 shakedown call with Zelenskyy. Not Schiff.
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That's true. But it's Schiff's assertion of what happened on that call, without regard to any other interpretation offered, that has prompted this "impeachment".
 
Lutherf said:
That's true. But it's Schiff's assertion of what happened on that call, without regard to any other interpretation offered, that has prompted this "impeachment".
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12 high ranking government officials involved with the call either here of in Ukraine testified what the call was about in the House Judiciary Committee hearings.

More information would be available if Trump didn't illegally order White House & State officials to refuse to honor legal subpoena's for depositions and documents.

You can't stonewall and then complain that all the information is not available.
 
veritas1 said:
It helped Clinton and hurt the GOP. The reverse will happen this time but more significantly.
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Whatever.

Trump will forever be known as an impeached US president. That stink never comes off.
 
Rogue Valley said:
12 high ranking government officials involved with the call either here of in Ukraine testified what the call was about in the House Judiciary Committee hearings.

More information would be available if Trump didn't illegally order White House & State officials to refuse to honor legal subpoena's for depositions and documents.

You can't stonewall and then complain that all the information is not available.
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New Remarks From Top Ukrainian Official Damages Democrats’ Impeachment Narrative
November 14th, 2019

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko said on Thursday that the United States Ambassador Gordon Sondland did not link financial military assistance to a request for Ukraine to open up an investigation into former vice president and current Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter Biden.

“Ambassador Sondland did not tell us, and certainly did not tell me, about a connection between the assistance and the investigations,” Prystaiko said, according to Reuters. “You should ask him.”

“I have never seen a direct relationship between investigations and security assistance,” Prystaiko continued. “Yes, the investigations were mentioned, you know, in the conversation of the presidents. But there was no clear connection between these events.”

Prystaiko’s comments came after House Democrats launched their public impeachment inquiry hearings on Wednesday on the House Intelligence Committee.


Jim Jordan Shreds Democrats’ Impeachment Witness: ‘What You Heard Did Not Happen’

Jim Jordan Shreds Democrats’ Impeachment Witness: ‘What You Heard Did Not Happen’ | The Daily Wire

Jordan: You didn’t listen in on President Trump and Zelensky’s call?

Taylor: I did not.

Jordan: You’ve never talked with Chief of Staff Mulvaney?

Taylor: I never did.

Jordan: You’ve never met the president?

Taylor: That’s correct.

Jordan: You had three meetings again with Zelenksy and it didn’t come up … and President Zelensky never made an announcement. … and you’re their star witness.
 
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