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Thread: Inaccuracies about Marxism, drawn from Twitter

  1. #21
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    Re: Inaccuracies about Marxism, drawn from Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Bordigist View Post
    In this thread I shall document and disprove various inaccuracies and misapprehensions about Marxism, as drawn from the good people of Twitter. I shall be quoting at length from the originators of Marxism and as little as possible from subsequent commentators, to avoid accusations of revisionism. I will further post as I find interesting takes to post about.


    1. "... the opening premise of Marxism is that the private ownership of assets is theft and that the state should control all capital."

    Attachment 67269292

    No. From Chapter III of Friedrich Engels' Socialism: Utopian & Scientific.

    Attachment 67269291]
    Communism doesn't work, and never will end of story.

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    Re: Inaccuracies about Marxism, drawn from Twitter

    As always, those who identify as communists must control the conversation, and insist upon only discussing the theoretical framework of the ideology, while ignoring every instance in history where it was put into application and failed miserably. Another trick is to alternate between quoting Marx and Engels, depending upon which one authored the more digestible text about a given issue people have with Marxism.

    The reality is that Marx and Engels were both born into wealth and privilege. Marx ended up broke, relying upon inheritance from his uncle, and then the charity of Engels. Marx never had to man-up and face the world for himself ironically- the great champion of the proletariat never actually worked a day in his life. Engels was another glaring hypocrite, running what amounted to sweat shops in his native England. He milked the proletariat for all it was worth, and died a rich man, leaving a large estate to his heirs, and the children of Karl Marx who received nothing when Marx died. It tells you much about the age we live in when some of Karl Marx' ideas have become mainsteam- we're chasing the ideals of a man who failed repeatedly in life, and was rescued each time by the rewards produced by capitalism.
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    Re: Inaccuracies about Marxism, drawn from Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    As always, those who identify as communists must control the conversation, and insist upon only discussing the theoretical framework of the ideology,
    Capitalist apologists have held the floor for three decades. The time has come to yield it, and it will be yielded.

    while ignoring every instance in history where it was put into application and failed miserably.
    Oh, you mean this application, and all others deriving from it?

    No one, I think, in studying the question of the economic system of Russia, had denied its transitional character. Nor, I think, has any Communist denied that the term Socialist Soviet Republic implies the determination of Soviet power to achieve the transition to socialism, and not that the new economic system is recognized as a socialist order.
    The Tax in Kind

    While the revolution in Germany is still slow in “coming forth”, our task is to study the state capitalism of the Germans, to spare no effort in copying it and not shrink from adopting dictatorial methods to hasten the copying of it. Our task is to hasten this copying even more than Peter hastened the copying of Western culture by barbarian Russia, and we must not hesitate to use barbarous methods in fighting barbarism.
    “Left-Wing” Childishness

    Another trick is to alternate between quoting Marx and Engels, depending upon which one authored the more digestible text about a given issue people have with Marxism.
    Citing sources is a bad habit, it seems.

    The reality is that Marx and Engels were both born into wealth and privilege.
    And? Thomas Jefferson went bankruot on three separate occasions. Who cares?

    [/moralism]
    All theories (bourgeois, fascist, Stalinist, Labourite, left-wing, or far-leftist) which somehow glorify and praise the proletariat as it is and claim for it the positive role of defending values and regenerating society, are anti-revolutionary.
    - Gilles Dauvť

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    Re: Inaccuracies about Marxism, drawn from Twitter

    There is less need for physical labor, and more need for mental labor.

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    Re: Inaccuracies about Marxism, drawn from Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    As always, those who identify as communists must control the conversation, and insist upon only discussing the theoretical framework of the ideology, while ignoring every instance in history where it was put into application and failed miserably. Another trick is to alternate between quoting Marx and Engels, depending upon which one authored the more digestible text about a given issue people have with Marxism.

    The reality is that Marx and Engels were both born into wealth and privilege. Marx ended up broke, relying upon inheritance from his uncle, and then the charity of Engels. Marx never had to man-up and face the world for himself ironically- the great champion of the proletariat never actually worked a day in his life. Engels was another glaring hypocrite, running what amounted to sweat shops in his native England. He milked the proletariat for all it was worth, and died a rich man, leaving a large estate to his heirs, and the children of Karl Marx who received nothing when Marx died. It tells you much about the age we live in when some of Karl Marx' ideas have become mainsteam- we're chasing the ideals of a man who failed repeatedly in life, and was rescued each time by the rewards produced by capitalism.
    But that is not what is the real problem with Marxism. The real problem is that he was free to say whatever he thought, without caring about evidence or reality. There was no requirement to make sense. Trying to create practical systems based on his ideas has failed completely, every time.

    And yet, Marxism is extremely popular among academics! I think there is only one possible explanation. Academics like to have heroes to worship. Someone who seems to be convincing and rational, a good writer and/or speaker. Once this person becomes famous among academics, they will never stop worshiping him.

    This happened with Freud, for example, and later on with Noam Chomsky.

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    Re: Inaccuracies about Marxism, drawn from Twitter

    Marxists, such as Richard Wolff, insist that Marxist socialism worked very well in the Soviet Union. They say the Soviet Union failed for other reasons.

    Oh really? Should we believe that socialism is viable?

    I think the "success" of the early Soviet Union was an illusion. The Communist party had taken all the wealth and land from the previous rulers. And they had control of all the natural resources. Even with a corrupt and inefficient command economy, it was hard to fail in the beginning. They were able to imitate the USA and copy our inventions.

    But eventually the economy stagnated. There was no innovation, no creativity.

    And the system was utterly impractical. A market economic system is a huge computer, that determines wages and prices automatically. The Soviets had to figure all that out for themselves. And of course they couldn't.

    And corruption was a much bigger problem under communism than under capitalism, because of the complete lack of competition.

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    Re: Inaccuracies about Marxism, drawn from Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Bordigist View Post
    Capitalist apologists have held the floor for three decades. The time has come to yield it, and it will be yielded.
    What makes you think you have a majority of the population with you? I can tell that you don't. Yes, people are tired of runaway capitalism and globalism. But they aren't willing to trade what they currently have for communism.

    Oh, you mean this application, and all others deriving from it?

    The Tax in Kind
    Lenin wanted to murder the middle class, and rob them of their wordly possessions, in order to fuel his revolution. The middle class, and the ethnicities which made up the middle class, were the scapegoats for most of the problems with Russia, much like the jews were in Nazi Germany. Do you want to eliminate the middle class?

    How did that turn out?


    Citing sources is a bad habit, it seems.
    Alternating between the two allows you to cherry pick the quote which sounds the best. It's a minor thing however, as Marx and Engels were in agreement on much, including the Manifesto, which was the basis for much of the war and murder of the 20th century.



    And? Thomas Jefferson went bankruot on three separate occasions. Who cares?

    [/moralism]
    Jefferson didn't advocate for communism. And you Communists are the biggest practitioners of moralism, judging the 99% of society that wants nothing to do when your failed ideas as inferior. Trotsky championed terrorism in order to make reluctant populations comply with his worldview. And he's thought of today by many in your company as the nice & sane one out of that bunch!
    -MSNBC's Phillip Mena:"Congressman, are you concerned that impeachment talk may actually help the presidentís reelection?"
    -Rep Al Green (D-TX): "I'm concerned that if we don't impeach this president, he will get reelected."

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    Re: Inaccuracies about Marxism, drawn from Twitter

    When you tell people your plan is to steal everything they own, don't expect them to go along happily. That is why capitalism does NOT peacefully evolve into Marxism.

    So how is it possible to defend Marxism, knowing the violence it has caused, and will inevitably cause if it is ever tried again?

    Many, or most, Marxists have decided that the Soviet Union's authoritarian style of socialism should not be repeated. They now advocate a peaceful, egalitarian, form of socialism. They are expecting capitalism to evolve into a system of workers' cooperatives.

    Workers' cooperatives are not socialist, for one thing. And we have no reason at all to expect our system to evolve in that direction. And if it did, there are so many obvious problems with the workers' cooperative idea, it would be crazy to expect it to be our future.

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