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Republican Party is Becoming Most Important Asset of Russian Intel

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Nevertheless, everyone else accepts that Donald Trump was duly elected by the Electoral College, and no one thinks that the Kremlin sent a bunch of Boris and Natashas to infect voting machines.

The Russians are attacking us with weaponized propaganda and sowing division and mistrust in our most basic values and institutions with the help of their "client-puppet", Donald Trump.
No one thinks he is an "illegitimately elected" puppet, just that he's a puppet, one who has committed impeachable acts.

If there is any voter blame to go around, most of it should go to Democrats who stayed home thinking they had this in the bag.
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Thinking that Donald Trunp is part of the Russian effort, is part of the Russian effort.
 
less right said:
Strangler was just saying where the story came from. Trump and his MAGA comrades are the ones who accept and disseminate the propaganda.
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Did you READ the post? He was citing GRU information as part of his argument.
 
iguanaman said:
Mueller verified that the basic premise of the dossier was accurate and much of it has been proven correct.. We know Putin wanted Trump to win because Mueller and even Putin himself told us so. You were "snookered" into believing that Trump was not compromised by welcoming help from Russia. You do know there is no free lunch and Trump must reciprocate for what Putin did for him. That doesn't bother you?
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Dr. Hill dissagrees. The dossier was Russian disinformation.
It's not clear why you would trust anyomous Russian sources ahead of a known American.
 
Bullseye said:
Did you READ the post? He was citing GRU information as part of his argument.
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Not only did I read it, I understood it too.

If he bought the GRU story then he'd believe Ukraine was behind election interference. He was saying it was corroborated nonsense.
 
Moderate Right said:
I think you've got it bass ackwards. In 2016 our own intelligence determined that Russia wanted to undermine our elections and put doubt in the minds of voters regarding democracy itself and ever since the Democrats have been running around like chickens with their heads cut off claiming that the election wasn't legitimate and trying to impeach Trump. Why does the left refuse to believe our own intelligence community?
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Liberals love the intelligence people when they go with the liberal agenda. It's always been that way and always will be.

Not very long ago the liberals were screaming to eliminate the CIA, or were hating on the CIA.......... and a good many of them still do.

Bernie Sanders once urged abolishing CIA - POLITICO

Democrats Say C.I.A. Deceived Congress - The New York Times

It'''s time to abolish the CIA.

But now the liberals love them some CIA and other intelligence agencies when they have them in line with their agenda.
 
Democrats = Desperately delusional
 
RetiredUSN said:
Liberals love the intelligence people when they go with the liberal agenda. It's always been that way and always will be.

Not very long ago the liberals were screaming to eliminate the CIA, or were hating on the CIA.......... and a good many of them still do.

Bernie Sanders once urged abolishing CIA - POLITICO

Democrats Say C.I.A. Deceived Congress - The New York Times

It'''s time to abolish the CIA.

But now the liberals love them some CIA and other intelligence agencies when they have them in line with their agenda.
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This country AND other countries have decertified and shut down disreputable agencies in the past.
When the Deepwater Horizon well blew out in the Gulf of Mexico, the Minerals Management Service was the responsible regulatory agency.

As as result of their failed oversight, lax approach and perceived conflicts of interest, the agency was formally dissolved on October 1, 2011.
The responsibility for their work was handed off to other agencies.

That said, it seems that you are interested only in reducto ad absurdum arguments where the sum total of work product which is verified by other independent agencies and personnel is deemed by you to be null and void due to your skewed perceptions of "liberals".

Sure, just as long as equal dismissal is applied to your own "work product". ALL OF IT.
 
haymarket said:
Malcolm Nance has a couple books including his latest called THE PLOT TO BETRAY AMERICA where he painstakingly chronicles this movement of the GOP from anti-Soviet to pro-Russian. The sad fact that they have been turned into pro-Russian dupes and assets is disgraceful and will eventually destroy the party if there is any justice in the world.
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I don’t think there’s a better example of a major political party betraying it’s duty to its country so fecklessly and dangerously, since the Social Democrats sided with the Nazis in the 1932 election in Germany, allowing Hitler to become Chancellor.
 
TomFitz said:
I don’t think there’s a better example of a major political party betraying it’s duty to its country so fecklessly and dangerously, since the Social Democrats sided with the Nazis in the 1932 election in Germany, allowing Hitler to become Chancellor.
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Are you sure that they "sided with"? Up until 1932 the leftist component believed themselves to be the root of "National Socialism", a belief that was utterly overturned in the 1934 "Night of the Long Knives" massacre, which irrevocably put the Nazi Party firmly in the control of the fascist Right.

Gregor and Otto Strasser were the leading left wing lights of the NSDAP for the first couple of years of its existence. The SA (Sturmabteilung) was the enforcement arm of Nazi left wing socialism...or so they thought.
And all because, among other things, the brothers Strasser insisted that "National Socialism" make room for left wing values. For Hitler, Otto Strasser's insistent opposition speeches proved to be a bridge too far.
Hitler's boiling hatred of bourgeoisie socialism, Bolshevism and his hatred for the "international cabal of Jewish intellectual socialists" was so overwhelming that in one fell swoop he wiped out the entire Left Wing of the NSDAP in "The Night of the Long Knives", in which Otto Strasser was murdered, and his brother Gregor fled with his life and little else into exile.
And the Sturmabteilung (SA) was replaced with the SS (SchutzStaffel) .

Himmler, well before the Wannsee Conference, and after the "Night of the Long Knives", which eventuated the disposal of any and all left-sympathizing party members, including Ernst Roehm, about 1938, enunciated to a mass meeting of the SchutzStaffel (S.S.):
"We are of the right and of order. We shall sweep away Jews, Bolsheviks, and liberal democracies as one sweeps away flies."

The social democrats' goose was cooked.
 
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Moderate Right said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-trump-election-is-not-legitimate-poll-finds/
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November 13, 2016 at 4:00 a.m. PST

The survey was conducted immediately after Election Day as anti-Trump protests sprang up across major cities, at the end of an acidic campaign in which Trump himself said he may not accept election results if Clinton prevailed.
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It helps if you actually READ the stuff you sling out there.

PS: Are you still convinced that everyone who hates Trump is a secret Hillary supporter?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Are you sure that they "sided with"? Up until 1932 the leftist component believed themselves to be the root of "National Socialism", a belief that was utterly overturned in the 1934 "Night of the Long Knives" massacre, which irrevocably put the Nazi Party firmly in the control of the fascist Right.

Gregor and Otto Strasser were the leading left wing lights of the NSDAP for the first couple of years of its existence. The SA (Sturmabteilung) was the enforcement arm of Nazi left wing socialism...or so they thought.
And all because, among other things, the brothers Strasser insisted that "National Socialism" make room for left wing values. For Hitler, Otto Strasser's insistent opposition speeches proved to be a bridge too far.
Hitler's boiling hatred of bourgeoisie socialism, Bolshevism and his hatred for the "international cabal of Jewish intellectual socialists" was so overwhelming that in one fell swoop he wiped out the entire Left Wing of the NSDAP in "The Night of the Long Knives", in which Otto Strasser was murdered, and his brother Gregor fled with his life and little else into exile.
And the Sturmabteilung (SA) was replaced with the SS (SchutzStaffel) .

Himmler, well before the Wannsee Conference, and after the "Night of the Long Knives", which eventuated the disposal of any and all left-sympathizing party members, including Ernst Roehm, about 1938, enunciated to a mass meeting of the SchutzStaffel (S.S.):
"We are of the right and of order. We shall sweep away Jews, Bolsheviks, and liberal democracies as one sweeps away flies."

The social democrats' goose was cooked.
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Von Pappan’s deal is what brought Hitler into the new government as Chancellor.

By that time, Hitler and Goebells has the support of the industrialists and the press barons. The Nazis finished. third, behind the SDP and the Communists. But there was not majority to form a government, so a coalition had to be formed.
 
Moderate Right said:
I think you've got it bass ackwards. In 2016 our own intelligence determined that Russia wanted to undermine our elections and put doubt in the minds of voters regarding democracy itself and ever since the Democrats have been running around like chickens with their heads cut off claiming that the election wasn't legitimate and trying to impeach Trump. Why does the left refuse to believe our own intelligence community?
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Because that community is saying the Russians wanted Trump elected. Why would they want that?
 
3leftsdoo said:
Democrats = Desperately delusional
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Yes. But you, being very sober, are probably still looking for Obama's secret Kenyan birth certificate and think Trump U was better than Harvard. :roll:
 
ataraxia said:
Because that community is saying the Russians wanted Trump elected. Why would they want that?
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Russia blamed Hillary for massive protests in Russia. They didn't know what to expect with Trump but they knew at the time that they did not want Hillary. Apparently they were wrong though because Trump has been tougher on Russia than Obama was. And, there isn't one shred of evidence that anything Russia did in 2016 actually change the election results. Just as illegals voting is a non issue for the right, so is Russia influencing the 2016 election.
 
Moderate Right said:
Russia blamed Hillary for massive protests in Russia. They didn't know what to expect with Trump but they knew at the time that they did not want Hillary. Apparently they were wrong though because Trump has been tougher on Russia than Obama was. And, there isn't one shred of evidence that anything Russia did in 2016 actually change the election results. Just as illegals voting is a non issue for the right, so is Russia influencing the 2016 election.
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Why Putin was always interested in Trump, not Hillary:

Both Putin and his country are aging, declining—but the insecurities of decline present their own risks to America. The United States intelligence community is unanimous in its assessment not only that Russians interfered in the U.S. election but that, in the words of former FBI Director James Comey, “they will be back.” It is a stunning escalation of hostilities for a troubled country whose elites still have only a tenuous grasp of American politics. And it is classically Putin, and classically Russian: using daring aggression to mask weakness, to avenge deep resentments, and, at all costs, to survive...

Russia’s interference in the U.S. election was just as shortsighted. At first, Donald Trump’s victory seemed to be a great coup for Putin. Kremlin loyalists celebrated Trump’s inauguration in Moscow, including at a live watch party with free-flowing champagne. And it conferred on Russia prestige of a sort. When I asked Victor Minin, the former Russian-government cybersecurity specialist who runs hackathons across Russia, about the effect of American media coverage of Russian hackers, he said, “It’s the brand of the year. It’s a good thing when, aside from oil, we have cutting-edge specialists and the whole world is talking about them.”

But this victory has burned out even faster than the others. The fingerprints that the Russians left behind, once discovered, raised an uproar in Washington. Congress, in a rare near-unanimous vote, stripped Trump of the ability to unilaterally lift American sanctions on Russia. They will very likely remain in place indefinitely, a prospect Medvedev bemoaned in a Facebook post the day Trump reluctantly signed the bill into law. Unable to get back the two diplomatic compounds in the U.S. that had been seized during the last days of the Obama administration, the Russians plunged headfirst into a destructive tit for tat—which resulted in the seizure of three more Russian diplomatic posts.

Meddling in the U.S. election might have destabilized the American political system, but it is unclear how carefully Putin considered the potential consequences for his country. His goal is to stay in power another day, another year, and to deal with complications when—and if—they arise...

As Americans are left trying to puzzle out what exactly happened in 2016, and how they fell prey to what Hayden has called “one of the most successful covert-influence campaigns in history,” the campaign continues. Putin, ever the gambler, will continue to seize opportunities as they arise, and bend them to his immediate advantage. Given what’s already been revealed—and the extent to which Congress has tied Trump’s hands on sanctions—he knows that he’ll see no immediate benefit from playing nice. Without meaningful new deterrence, he will continue lashing out as both he and his country age and decline.

Some Americans, including the current president, believe that if only we could identify where our interests align, Russia could be a good partner. But those who have dealt with Putin for decades understand that this is, at best, a fantasy. “Putin defines Russia’s interests in opposition to—and with the objective of thwarting—Western policy,” Ash Carter, Obama’s last defense secretary, told me recently. “It’s very hard to build a bridge to that motivation. It makes it ipso facto impossible” to “work cooperatively with Russia.”...

Putin set out to show that there is nothing special about America, that it is just another country. Whether he is right depends in no small part on whether enough Americans—especially powerful or politically connected Americans—still believe their system is worth defending."
What Putin Really Wants - The Atlantic
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ataraxia said:
Why Putin was always interested in Trump, not Hillary:
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The passage cited doesn't show that Putin wanted Trump.
It argues that Putin interfered in the election.
It argued that anyone who thought Putin was someone the USA work with (ahem.. Obama ahem... Clinton and yes, Mr. Trump) was a fool.

But those who think Russia wanted Trump to win have fallen for Russian disinformation. Indeed, impeachment is a corollary of Russian interference.
 
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