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Native Americans

No, a liberal bored them to death with useless questions and inane assumptions.

Worse than any torture imaginable, no doubt. But is there a source — other than the story of Vinland — that recounts the history of these folks and how they disappeared?
 
Recent genetic profiles of indigenous Americans show a close relation to the peoples of the northwestern Russian steppe and lake lands, not those of the Siberian east. It is likely that the Eurasian peoples of Russia's east migrated there long after indigenous Americans migrated to the Americas.

Do you have a source for that? Not doubting you. I just find it interesting.
 
Too late. Long time ago, Mexican friends told me that the three largest cities in their country were its capitol, Guadalajara, and Los Angeles. Out here in California, they have already changed many of our place names to Spanish.

Can you share some examples of places in CA that used to have "other" names that have been changed to Spanish?
 
I would like to call them American Indians. Why? Because that's what we always called them. It was based on the mistaken idea that the New World was India. But calling this continent America was a mistake also. We didn't feel obliged to change it out of political correctness.

Progressives like changing the names of things. Never call an Afro-American a "colored person." Please, be politically correct and call them a "person of color." What the heck is the difference??

So, I should be allowed to call native Americans Indians. I hope you don't mind.

We are often told that the white settlers massacred the American Indians, and that it was an intentional genocide. No, that is just another progressive/liberal myth.

First, no one knows how many Indians were here before the settlers arrived. It could have been one million, or ten million, or more. At the end of the 19th century, there were only 250,000. We really have no idea how many died because of the settlers.

But we do know that MOST of the Indian deaths were caused by the settlers bringing infectious diseases. Diseases such as smallpox, measles, etc., had never existed in America, so the Indians had no immunity.

No, the European settlers did NOT bring these diseases intentionally, because they wanted to kill Indians.

American Indians were defeated by microbes. It was not genocide.

European settlers did start arriving in huge numbers and took the Indians' hunting land, that is true. But indigenous people all over the world have been crowded out by modern society. I think it really is too bad, and I think their way of life was superior to ours in many ways.

But there was NO genocide of the American Indians. First, we don't know how many died because of the settlers. Second, we know that most of those who died were killed by diseases, and were NOT intentionally murdered. Third, the settlers were interested in acquiring agricultural land. They were NOT trying to stamp out the Indians because of their race.


How big of a mass murder counts as genocide? Couldn’t we say we did genocide even though most were killed by non genocide disease?
 
How big of a mass murder counts as genocide? Couldn’t we say we did genocide even though most were killed by non genocide disease?

Mass murder and genocide are different things.
 
Had a dog, wonderful animal. Cats too. But I never could explain that it was unfair to play with a rat or mouse they had disabled. Pets are affectionate, dogs can be good companions and some are great workers. Beavers and wolves seem to work in concert, moose defend the herd. But concepts of justice dont seem to exist in their brains.

They don't use our words, but we have absolutely no reason to assume they have no concept of justice. We just don't understand their language or how they think.
 
They don't use our words, but we have absolutely no reason to assume they have no concept of justice. We just don't understand their language or how they think.

We can pretty safely assume that animals have no concept of justice in the human sense of the word. At least, the majority of them. This is because justice is an abstract concept; it doesn't exist in the physical world, and most nonhuman animals are simply not capable of understanding abstract concepts, because they lack the necessary brain complexity to do so. Namely, the prefrontal cortex is the part of the human brain most associated with planning, decision making, social inhibitions, and abstractions. This part of the brain is significantly larger and has more connections to other parts of the brain in humans than in other animals. This is what makes humans evolutionarily distinct.
 
We can pretty safely assume that animals have no concept of justice in the human sense of the word. At least, the majority of them. This is because justice is an abstract concept; it doesn't exist in the physical world, and most nonhuman animals are simply not capable of understanding abstract concepts, because they lack the necessary brain complexity to do so. Namely, the prefrontal cortex is the part of the human brain most associated with planning, decision making, social inhibitions, and abstractions. This part of the brain is significantly larger and has more connections to other parts of the brain in humans than in other animals. This is what makes humans evolutionarily distinct.

Right, the other animals don't write or read philosophy books, that is true. But I was not talking about the human, abstract, concept of fairness. Animals demonstrate an intuitive understanding of many of our human concepts.

If you ask your dog to define the concept of "love," for example, he will look at you with a doubtful expression. At the same time, you know very well that he understands love as well as, or better than, you understand it.
 
Can you share some examples of places in CA that used to have "other" names that have been changed to Spanish?

Joking, the line was from a skit several years ago in a nearby park by, I believe, the SF Mime Troupe, satirizing the panic about illegals. “Pretty soon they’ll be changing all our place names to Spanish.” We like to market Spanish names. I used to live in Concord, CA, formerly called Todos Santos, as some high school buddies told this boy who had moved from Brooklyn. Now, the formerly somewhat sleazy town square is called Todos Santos Plaza. And how many housing developments are called Marina Vista, or something similar. My fave is Alameda de Las Pulgas, Grove of the Fleas, as apparently the flea-bitten Spaniards dubbed it. There is also Putah Creek (the h added) which may have been called “Whore’s Creek” originally by 49ers, because that is where they met the fallen women.
 
Sorry, back in the depths of my memory is a book that spoke about some of the Crusaders killing Jews on their journey. Read the book a while ago, tho.

Nothing to be sorry about. In their lust for blood, at times they killed everyone in their paths. When the crusaders first took Jerusalem, the killed every single inhabitant, every man, woman and child, with no distinctions.
 
Do you have a source for that? Not doubting you. I just find it interesting.

A blurb I read a few years ago, when reading something else about odd appearances of genetically linked susceptibilities to some maladies. Issues like Taysachs that don't usually appear in the general population, but show in those from northeastern Europe, and those indigenous to parts of South America, and northeastern Canada. Koenigers disease, a lymphatic problem which appears in those from northeastern China, and those from southwestern Iberia.
 
A blurb I read a few years ago, when reading something else about odd appearances of genetically linked susceptibilities to some maladies. Issues like Taysachs that don't usually appear in the general population, but show in those from northeastern Europe, and those indigenous to parts of South America, and northeastern Canada. Koenigers disease, a lymphatic problem which appears in those from northeastern China, and those from southwestern Iberia.

Maybe I should have been more specific. Where can I review your source?
 
Maybe I should have been more specific. Where can I review your source?

I have no idea. I was reading while waiting in a doctor's office.
 
I have no idea. I was reading while waiting in a doctor's office.

That's a shame. I guess you won't mind then if your contribution doesn't influence the thread?
 
That's a shame. I guess you won't mind then if your contribution doesn't influence the thread?

That is not for you to judge for anyone other than yourself. You can place your arrogance back in your pocket.
 
There are credible stories of infected blankets being distributed.
There are credible stories where some people indeed wrote about such tactics and it is entirely possible it may have happened on rare occasions. it is not at all true that it was a widespread tactic or responsible for genocide of the Indian people.

What IS undeniable is that settlers viewed the indigenous people as a lesser, savage people and felt justified in taking from them.

But as I said earlier...if you see that mindset as evil, then you MUST apply the same mindset to the Iroquois...and the Aztecs...and the Sioux...and any of the hundreds of tribes that preyed on the lesser tribes. And what that leaves us with is an understanding of developing human nature through learned experience and growth.
 
There are credible stories where some people indeed wrote about such tactics and it is entirely possible it may have happened on rare occasions. it is not at all true that it was a widespread tactic or responsible for genocide of the Indian people.

What IS undeniable is that settlers viewed the indigenous people as a lesser, savage people and felt justified in taking from them.

But as I said earlier...if you see that mindset as evil, then you MUST apply the same mindset to the Iroquois...and the Aztecs...and the Sioux...and any of the hundreds of tribes that preyed on the lesser tribes. And what that leaves us with is an understanding of developing human nature through learned experience and growth.

People have been looking down at each other since forever. If you want to get outraged about this, you will always have high blood pressure and ulcers.

And political progressives are pretty good at looking down at others. Don't think you are above it all.
 
That is not for you to judge for anyone other than yourself. You can place your arrogance back in your pocket.

You assumed that I was judging for anyone other than myself, so it would seem you're the one demonstrating arrogance. All I asked you for was for a way to substantiate your claim that North America was originally inhabited by people from the northwestern Russian steppes. You don't have a source. Don't take it out on me.
 
You assumed that I was judging for anyone other than myself, so it would seem you're the one demonstrating arrogance. All I asked you for was for a way to substantiate your claim that North America was originally inhabited by people from the northwestern Russian steppes. You don't have a source. Don't take it out on me.

Your words "I guess you won't mind then if your contribution doesn't influence the thread?" You can lie about not speaking for others, but your words betray you.

Stating that there is evidence of genetic link between the peoples of northeastern Russia and indigenous Americans does not mean people of northeastern Russia migrated to the Americas. At best it means there is a common ancestry, and therefore both populations differ from later Siberian and eastern Russian populations. It helps if one thinks.

50% of the human genome is identical to that of a banana. It explains much about our politicians, and the rest of us. We are all connected, by stupidity.
 
Your words "I guess you won't mind then if your contribution doesn't influence the thread?" You can lie about not speaking for others, but your words betray you.

Stating that there is evidence of genetic link between the peoples of northeastern Russia and indigenous Americans does not mean people of northeastern Russia migrated to the Americas. At best it means there is a common ancestry, and therefore both populations differ from later Siberian and eastern Russian populations. It helps if one thinks.

50% of the human genome is identical to that of a banana. It explains much about our politicians, and the rest of us. We are all connected, by stupidity.

So not only do you not have a source, but you didn't have a point either. Gotcha.
 
So not only do you not have a source, but you didn't have a point either. Gotcha.

You don't have diddly squat. This is not a children's game. Said the blind man as he picked up the hammer and saw. Nothing in this world is what it seems. Your lesson for the day.
 
You don't have diddly squat. This is not a children's game. Said the blind man as he picked up the hammer and saw. Nothing in this world is what it seems. Your lesson for the day.

I asked you a question because I was genuinely curious in a post you submitted. That turned out to be a mistake since not only did you not bother to have a source for the post that interested me, but you also got pissed off when I pressed you on it. We weren't meant to be in this thread. It happens. Maybe next time.
 
People have been looking down at each other since forever. If you want to get outraged about this, you will always have high blood pressure and ulcers.

And political progressives are pretty good at looking down at others. Don't think you are above it all.
Quite the opposite. I'm pointing out the ridiculousness of the outrage culture. As in...its stupid to think that people today have some sort of moral high ground to judge people from yesterday.
 
How big of a mass murder counts as genocide? Couldn’t we say we did genocide even though most were killed by non genocide disease?

The old adages "might makes right" and "he with the most money makes the most rules" can be applied with some degree of accuracy to all peoples and nations throughout history. Like Darwin's theory of evolution, the weaker native tribes gave way to stronger forces accompanying European settlers. It is survival of the fittest in action.
 
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