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I do not understand Trumpsters?

Grandpappy said:
Face it, dude. Obama sucked, he was incompetent. The progressive dogma sucks, it's unworkable. As for FDR, he won the war. His administration was a far cry from modern progressive BS. New Deal and all.
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You messed up. You were doing well, saying false things, and then when you got to 'FDR lost the war', you switched and got it right. At least you got back on track to false things for the rest of your post. Go look up "FDR economic bill of rights" and tell me how that differs from progressives.
 
aociswundumho said:
Sorry, that's not even close to true. Do you deny the existence of the entire abolitionist movement?
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Do you understand the difference between opposing slavery, and thinking the white race was superior? Clearly not.

Yes, but not because he cared about black people being enslaved. Note that his Emancipation Proclamation conveniently didn’t apply to slave states that were loyal to the union, which tells you right there about how much he cared about blacks being enslaved. Lincoln's dream was to ship them all back to Africa.
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He cared about ending slavery, but you're right about his lifelong idea being to return black people to Africa. See the 'white supremacy' again.

No, he wouldn't, because he never supported equal rights for blacks, which is what MLK fought for:
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Lincoln would clearly have adopted the changes our society made. You're trying to compare apples and oranges, as you were already told.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Stick with "orange man bad", it's more your speed.
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He has a pretty good idea. You are mixed.
 
Kerry Won Ohio said:
We're just supposed to take your word for it that "Obama sucked"? Obama inherited a disastrous economy from Bush and got us out of the worst recession/depression since the 1930s. He ordered the raid that got Osama bin Laden, the biggest terrorist of all time. In addition, Obamacare has saved thousands of lives, no matter what deranged Republicans think about it.
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I'd put people like Nixon ahead of bin Laden (Nixon killed a million Vietnamese, terrorizing a nation with bombs, napalm, agent orange, white phosphorous, torture and more, while bin Laden killed three thousand mostly on one day).

Obama, quite the contrary, was an outstanding President. The best President that we've had since JFK.
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I'm less a fan of Obama, he was a corporatist plutocrat-light, but hugely better than any Republican since Lincoln. I'd say best since Carter.
 
Kerry Won Ohio said:
Wow. Lincoln was an abolitionist. That's why he was a member of the Republican Party -- because they wanted to end slavery, genius. However, he also believed white people were superior. This was true for the vast majority of abolitionists/Republicans during that time, which shows how little you know.
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Ok, enlighten me, perhaps I'm mistaken. Here's the claim you made:

Lincoln believed white people were superior, because 99% of white men felt that way 150 years ago.
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I say it's false. Let's see some evidence to support it.


Lincoln was afraid of the border states joining the Confederacy. That's why the Emancipation Proclamation did not apply to those 4 states.
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Right. He was fine with slavery, as long it helped him with his political goals. This goes on my side of the argument, not yours.
 
aociswundumho said:
Based on what evidence? Certainly not his words, so what else is there?
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Yes, his words, which you do not understand at all. They show a man with a deep interest in principle, justice, and other things you have no interest in - he was not some rabid racist for his time.
 
ludin said:
Yes real Christians do believe in helping the poor by giving their own money. Which is why Republican Christian's give more of their own money than leftist do. Funny. When it comes to giving leftist only do it if it is someone else's money not their own.

No we believe in lower taxes for everyone.
The bible calls us to fight when needed.

Stupid wars like Vietnam is a better example for you to use.
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I would like to see a real link that says that says that GOP Christians donate more to the poor than leftists? If not, then you are making up facts to suit your message. And if you believe in lower taxes for everyone, why did 83% of your tax cut go to the top 2%?
 
aociswundumho said:
Ok, enlighten me, perhaps I'm mistaken. Here's the claim you made:



I say it's false. Let's see some evidence to support it.




Right. He was fine with slavery, as long it helped him with his political goals. This goes on my side of the argument, not yours.
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You just quoted Lincoln yourself, dude. There is your evidence. I promise you that 99% of white Republicans from that era felt the same way -- slavery was wrong, but white people are superior. Why do you have such a difficult time comprehending that? If you ask any college history professor, they will tell you that I'm correct.

It didn't make these Republicans racists or white supremacists, which is what you shallowly seem to think. Views on race were just much different back then. Again, you make a big mistake if you try to impose moral views on race from 2019 onto views on race from the Civil War era. Any historian will tell you that.

Regarding your comment about the Emancipation Proclamation -- Lincoln was trying to win a war, for crying out loud. It's very easy for you to judge 150 years later from the comfort of your keyboard, but Lincoln was trying to keep a nation together. Lincoln had every intention of ending slavery in the border states after the war was over. Ever heard of the 13th Amendment? Lincoln helped get it through Congress in Jan 1865, a few months before he was killed.

In fact, Lincoln was assassinated because he ended slavery, do you not understand that?

The movie Lincoln is about Lincoln's efforts to get the 13th Amendment passed by Congress. It's a great movie, one of Spielberg's best, you should watch it and learn something.
 
independentusa said:
I saw that there was a poll that showed 53% of GOPers think Trumpis a greater president than Lincoln. That literally blows my mind. Trump greater than Lincoln. I can hardly believe that 5% would believe such and unbelievable thing as much as 53%. How can anyone think that is what I keep thinking to myself. Lincoln is considered one greatest president's ever and Trump is not in his league. Does anyone out there actually believe that Trump is a greater president than Lincoln?
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Perhaps you should break this job into smaller tasks. Begin with trying to figure out why anyone wouldn't support the DNC.
 
Both sides should be ashamed of yourselves! Anyone on the "other side" that can't admit that the other side has some valid points is just plain wrong.

Generally, the dems and repubs are each 50% right. For any of you to say "I'm a ______ and we're right!" is just stupid.
 
Kerry Won Ohio said:
You just quoted Lincoln yourself, dude. There is your evidence.
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No, that's evidence that Lincoln was a white supremacist. You claimed "99% of all white men" were white supremacists. That's the claim you need to support.

I promise you that 99% of white Republicans from that era felt the same way -- slavery was wrong, but white people are superior. Why do you have such a difficult time comprehending that?
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Because your "promise" isn't good enough. smh

Regarding your comment about the Emancipation Proclamation -- Lincoln was trying to win a war, for crying out loud.
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Oh, I knew this was coming sooner or later. "It was war, hence everything he did was fine". Sorry, no.

The movie Lincoln is about Lincoln's efforts to get the 13th Amendment passed by Congress. It's a great movie, one of Spielberg's best, you should watch it and learn something.
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Well there's your problem: you're getting your information from exciting Hollywood movies.
 
independentusa said:
I would like to see a real link that says that says that GOP Christians donate more to the poor than leftists? If not, then you are making up facts to suit your message. And if you believe in lower taxes for everyone, why did 83% of your tax cut go to the top 2%?
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Private charity cannot begin to meet the needs - government is needed. But right-wingers tend to be more happy to make some 'charitable contributions' (and get the deduction) while opposing any government, which does not work well. Democrats tend to be happier to pay some taxes instead of donating to charities that just aren't enough.
 
gino said:
Both sides should be ashamed of yourselves! Anyone on the "other side" that can't admit that the other side has some valid points is just plain wrong.

Generally, the dems and repubs are each 50% right. For any of you to say "I'm a ______ and we're right!" is just stupid.
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What a classic example of the misguided and wrong false equivalency thinking. You should recognize the other side has some valid points or all or none, based on whether they do, all of which are possible - in particular, it's possible they have none, which you deny.

And the Dems and Repubs are NOT 'generally each 50% right'. That's just the uninformed view some people assume because they don't know. The nugget of truth in your statement is that people can think 'their side is right' for the wrong reasons - but they can also be correct.
 
Drawdown said:
Perhaps you should break this job into smaller tasks. Begin with trying to figure out why anyone wouldn't support the DNC.
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Changing the topic isn't a smaller task. The topic is Lincoln and trump, not the DNC.
 
aociswundumho said:
No, that's evidence that Lincoln was a white supremacist. You claimed "99% of all white men" were white supremacists. That's the claim you need to support.



Because your "promise" isn't good enough. smh



Oh, I knew this was coming sooner or later. "It was war, hence everything he did was fine". Sorry, no.



Well there's your problem: you're getting your information from exciting Hollywood movies.
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I have a Bachelor's degree in History. I've forgotten more about history than you will EVER know. I've read multiple books about Lincoln and the Civil War.

There was no such thing as a "white supremacist" 150 years ago. You are truly ignorant. Every white person felt that blacks were inferior, with very few exceptions. The vast majority of white abolitionists and Republicans also believed black people were inferior, and that included Lincoln. You know not what you speak.

Yes, Lincoln was trying to win the war and save the country and that justifies his motivations regarding the Emancipation Proclamation. For you to suggest that is not a legitimate rationale for not abolishing slavery in the border states is ridiculous.

Lincoln is easily our greatest President. Everyone else is a distant second. The country was very fortunate that he was President during this crisis, the war easily could have turned out differently under a lesser President.
 
gino said:
Both sides should be ashamed of yourselves! Anyone on the "other side" that can't admit that the other side has some valid points is just plain wrong.

Generally, the dems and repubs are each 50% right. For any of you to say "I'm a ______ and we're right!" is just stupid.
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It's equally stupid to just assume both sides are 50% right. That's intellectual laziness. And, unfortunately, most independents are intellectually lazy.
 
History provides all manner of information which we can apply to understand what drives those who consider President of the United States of America Donald Trump to be a great president. To this end we can explore those democratic governments which collapsed and became single party states led by charismatic strong men. There are many, including some presently in the process.

Season's best to all.
 
independentusa said:
I saw that there was a poll that showed 53% of GOPers think Trumpis a greater president than Lincoln. That literally blows my mind. Trump greater than Lincoln. I can hardly believe that 5% would believe such and unbelievable thing as much as 53%. How can anyone think that is what I keep thinking to myself. Lincoln is considered one greatest president's ever and Trump is not in his league. Does anyone out there actually believe that Trump is a greater president than Lincoln?
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Trump has effected their daily lies; they heard about Lincoln in school.
 
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