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Independents souring on impeachment

Grim17 said:
Here's an example of Fox News reporting the truth, and at exactly the same time, CBS misleading it's viewers with a phony headline:

View attachment 67268857
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Sondland CONFIRMED THE QUID PRO QUO.

The only "issue" is he "Believed" the AID was tied to the investigations.

He CLEARLY stated the meeting was predicated on a quid pro quo, and he clearly stated he believed, now after evidence has come forward, that the aid was tied to this quid pro quo.

Holy **** we're seeing an example of the propaganda condition right here folks.





"The answer is yes."

"The answer is yes."

Fox is angle shooting - since Sondland "believed" the aid was tied to a quid pro quo over the meeting, Fox is saying there is no quid pro quo.

Mulveney admits it.

You guys are completely out of it.
 
Obscurity said:
Sondland CONFIRMED THE QUID PRO QUO.

The only "issue" is he "Believed" the AID was tied to the investigations.

He CLEARLY stated the meeting was predicated on a quid pro quo, and he clearly stated he believed, now after evidence has come forward, that the aid was tied to this quid pro quo.

Holy **** we're seeing an example of the propaganda condition right here folks.





"The answer is yes."

"The answer is yes."

Fox is angle shooting - since Sondland "believed" the aid was tied to a quid pro quo over the meeting, Fox is saying there is no quid pro quo.

Mulveney admits it.

You guys are completely out of it.
Click to expand...


I'm not playing this game with you. You know damned well that he said it was his "presumption" there was a quid pro quo and when he asked the president, Trump told him he wanted no quid pro quo.

Luckily, the American people aren't so consumed with hatred that they embrace lies the way you do.
 
Most of the country is souring on the impeachment.

Just do the work we pay you to do, you know, running the country.
 
Grim17 said:
I'm not playing this game with you. You know damned well that he said it was his "presumption" there was a quid pro quo and when he asked the president, Trump told him he wanted no quid pro quo.

Luckily, the American people aren't so consumed with hatred that they embrace lies the way you do.
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NO. That's -not true- at all. He EXPLICITLY stated the aid was his presumption, but that the meeting was predicated on a quid pro quo.

Mulveney ADMITTED IT.

Wow. You flat out DENY reality. Insane. Wow.
 
swing_voter said:
Most of the country is souring on the impeachment.

Just do the work we pay you to do, you know, running the country.
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No. You have to do it ethically.

We elected the house to hold Trump accountable, so they are doing their job, AND passing hundreds of bills for the american people. 400+ bills passed, all stalled by partisan hack McConnell.

You don't like it?

Take it up with the republicans, who refuse to legislate, or, apparently, act with ethics.
 
Obscurity said:
Then you will be one of those "independents" (Libertarian gives it away that you lean right, so please, don't even claim you're Independent) who will enable future presidents to endlessly precondition aid on political errands.

And you will rue the day you support this with your snide, high nosed "Independent" proclamations.
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What a shock that your incredibly narrow thinking discards anyone who disagrees(period) Easier to assume you understand what a libertarian is than actually ask about leanings or read some posting history(period) Can't imagine why your having trouble grasping the point made
 
Obscurity said:
If Trump is thrown out of office I have ZERO faith the Trumpers will not begin a civil war.

That, in and of itself, is dangerous enough to mean the senate must remove him.

Can you imagine if Obama did a rambling interview for an hour like Obama did on F&F yesterday? The Repubs would have demanded the 25h be invoked.
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They would have impeached him on day one for taking bribes through his lawyer and secretly paying off porn star affairs.
 
Keridan said:
What a shock that your incredibly narrow thinking discards anyone who disagrees(period) Easier to assume you understand what a libertarian is than actually ask about leanings or read some posting history(period) Can't imagine why your having trouble grasping the point made
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Oh, I'm not grasping at anything. I am simply pointing out that the reality here, that you refusing to support holding our president accountable for corrupt actions, will have massive implications for decades ahead.

The man is pardoning war criminals while moms who lied about where they lived so their kids could get a better education rot in jail.

Total embarassment. This, allowing what he has done, will create a kleptocratic executive with broad power and centralized power to create out of thin air scandals to befit themselves. Claiming you're a libertarian while "tiring" of our congress doing it's constitutional duty, to hold the executive accountable, is contradictory and confusing.

You either support our constitution, or you don't.
 
Helix said:
They would have impeached him on day one for taking bribes through his lawyer and secretly paying off porn star affairs.
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Absolutely, and there would have been no relenting. He would have been impeached for Collusion, he would have been impeached for emoluments, for campaign finance violations, for this ukrainian scandal.

They would have endlessly done this.
 
Helix said:
They would have impeached him on day one for taking bribes through his lawyer and secretly paying off porn star affairs.
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that isn't illegal.
 
ludin said:
that isn't illegal.
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It's unethical AF and should have no place in the White House.

With Trump it always boils down to this; just because you can does not mean you should.

Pardoning war criminals?

Sickening.

He isn't pro military - He's pro fox news, and pro loyalty - to him, alone.
 
Obscurity said:
Oh, I'm not grasping at anything. I am simply pointing out that the reality here, that you refusing to support holding our president accountable for corrupt actions, will have massive implications for decades ahead.

The man is pardoning war criminals while moms who lied about where they lived so their kids could get a better education rot in jail.

Total embarassment. This, allowing what he has done, will create a kleptocratic executive with broad power and centralized power to create out of thin air scandals to befit themselves. Claiming you're a libertarian while "tiring" of our congress doing it's constitutional duty, to hold the executive accountable, is contradictory and confusing.

You either support our constitution, or you don't.
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I do see your "total embarrassment" and anyone posting what you have would share it, good luck with that!

I know you cannot see it, but turns out we independents don't like Trump much, but we need proof and it has been failed at every point(period) The man does plenty wrong and they have failed to get anything that would actually be qualification for impeachment(period) Talk about doubling down on failure! Then, they go and do the victory dance every time they are embarrassed and we have to sit through the arrogance

Then we get a line of sad, unelectable options for the dem primary and we are told "They aren't Trump, so they can win" despite all logic going against that(period)

How are those of us who want an option supposed to feel? I'm not exactly cheering for either side right now, but I am getting very sick of the dems snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and then dancing on broken legs
 
Obscurity said:
No. You have to do it ethically.

We elected the house to hold Trump accountable, so they are doing their job, AND passing hundreds of bills for the american people. 400+ bills passed, all stalled by partisan hack McConnell.

You don't like it?

Take it up with the republicans, who refuse to legislate, or, apparently, act with ethics.
Click to expand...

pot meet kettle.
 
less right said:
Why did the Trump administration put Cohen in jail then?
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well the trump administration didn't put him in jail.
cohen admitted to campaign violations.

trump didn't commit campaign violations.
even if the campaign did commit a campaign violation it would be a fine against the campaign not him.
 
Obscurity said:
It's unethical AF and should have no place in the White House.

With Trump it always boils down to this; just because you can does not mean you should.

Pardoning war criminals?

Sickening.

He isn't pro military - He's pro fox news, and pro loyalty - to him, alone.
Click to expand...

it isn't illegal nor is it a crime.
all presidents have pardoned plenty of people and some major criminals as well.
 
ludin said:
well the trump administration didn't put him in jail.
cohen admitted to campaign violations.

trump didn't commit campaign violations.
even if the campaign did commit a campaign violation it would be a fine against the campaign not him.
Click to expand...

Cohen is in jail. Your "even if" was proven and Cohen got jail time. What you know turns out to be a bad guess at best.
 
Keridan said:
I do see your "total embarrassment" and anyone posting what you have would share it, good luck with that!

I know you cannot see it, but turns out we independents don't like Trump much, but we need proof and it has been failed at every point(period) The man does plenty wrong and they have failed to get anything that would actually be qualification for impeachment(period) Talk about doubling down on failure! Then, they go and do the victory dance every time they are embarrassed and we have to sit through the arrogance

Then we get a line of sad, unelectable options for the dem primary and we are told "They aren't Trump, so they can win" despite all logic going against that(period)

How are those of us who want an option supposed to feel? I'm not exactly cheering for either side right now, but I am getting very sick of the dems snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and then dancing on broken legs
Click to expand...

I am getting sick of folks like you ignoring facts and reality, and claiming some more high ground about your "independence".
 
ludin said:
it isn't illegal nor is it a crime.
all presidents have pardoned plenty of people and some major criminals as well.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about crimes? I said ETHICS.

Wow you guys don't understand what words even mean.
 
Obscurity said:
I am getting sick of folks like you ignoring facts and reality, and claiming some more high ground about your "independence".
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The irony spewing from your partisanship is well noted(period) Now imagine if you could get past it and learn from experience! Your whole life could be better
 
trixare4kids said:
Independents souring on impeachment underscores risk for Democrats | TheHill

What will Nancy Pelosi decide to do? Allow the Schiff-show to continue moving forward to taking an impeachment vote while Democrats in key races possibly risk losing Independents or call it a day? Seems to me losing millions of independents and more moderate Democrats while pissing off the far leftist side of the base, almost guarantees Trump the win. Does she continue to the impeachment vote or is she smart enough to know the writing is on the wall?
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I cannot imagine the Democrats going along with impeachment. The main witness the Republicans will insist on is Adam Schiff and he will be crucified on the stand. America will get to see just how vile and evil this man is and how he lies. He got away with in public. He won't in an impeachment trial where he could be charged and later removed from office. Chalupa would be the next one. Then Biden. There would be no hearsay evidence admitted. In short, The Democrats would be killed in impeachment hearings that were fair and followed the rules of justice. They would lose bigly in 2020 and they know it and won't risk it. They will censure Trump which is meaningless and that will be the end of this latest attempted coup.
 
Obscurity said:
It's unethical AF and should have no place in the White House.

With Trump it always boils down to this; just because you can does not mean you should.

Pardoning war criminals?

Sickening.

He isn't pro military - He's pro fox news, and pro loyalty - to him, alone.
Click to expand...

ludin lives in a place where it's always opposite day.
 
Obscurity said:
It was withheld on the precondition Ukraine ANNOUNCE investigations into Burisma. Not even try to actually oust corruption, just say it, you know, so Trump could smear biden.

That's what this was about. You don't get to say otherwise. The facts all lead to this conclusion. Sorry, facts don't ****ing care about your "opinion."

Official acts were withheld on precondition which would benefit Trump personally.

That is a fact.

Sorry you dislike it.
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Nothing illegal going on.
 
There is a report this morning that Brenda Lawrence (MI #14) is now favoring censure over impeachment. The original question was whether Pelosi could get a Republican defector. She had two of her own and has not won them back. Now there appears to be a third. With bipartisan opposition to impeachment, will they draft articles or do damage control.
 
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