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The evil empire

Simpletruther said:
Well I agree that is likely, but is not always the case. Sometimes moral pressure effects decisions. And in a big picture sense, it could influence some young man that becomes a great reformer in one of those places years from now.
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You can't give moral pressure on people who have no morals.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The best way to do so would be to simply stop patronizing those "greed ridden corporations". Expressing your outrage while buying their made in China products is as lame as it gets.
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i do my very best to do just that, but in many cases it is unavoidable. Our corporations have to take some responsibility and change themselves , as well, to make it work.
 
KevinKohler said:
So you support the trade war with China, but feel it doesn't go far enough?


Same here.


Want us to buy your stuff? Treat your workers humanely.
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absolutely.

especially knowing that they indirectly oppose us and will continue to use us to grow their power base until they can directly oppose or destroy us.
 
Hypothetical said:
i do my very best to do just that, but in many cases it is unavoidable. Our corporations have to take some responsibility and change themselves , as well, to make it work.
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In what case is something only made in China or available from a "greed ridden corporation"?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
In what case is something only made in China or available from a "greed ridden corporation"?
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you know of any tennis shoe brands that are not, or do not have PARTS made in china?
 
Hypothetical said:
you know of any tennis shoe brands that are not, or do not have PARTS made in china?
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Nope, although the New Balance brand seems to come closest. It is also hard to find any complex product (especially motor vehicles) that does not contain at least some imported (but not necessarily Chinese) content. The question then becomes is this imported content used out of "greed" or simply due to the lack of any domestic supplier?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, although the New Balance brand seems to come closest. It is also hard to find any complex product (especially motor vehicles) that does not contain at least some imported (but not necessarily Chinese) content. The question then becomes is this imported content used out of "greed" or simply due to the lack of any domestic supplier?
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well here's the thing... it doesn't matter: domestic supplier's can't be found most likely because they can't match the price reduction of a dictatorial nation willing to promote slave labor within their own populace.
 
Hypothetical said:
well here's the thing... it doesn't matter: domestic supplier's can't be found most likely because they can't match the price reduction of a dictatorial nation willing to promote slave labor within their own populace.
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That is certainly part of the problem, but there is a vast gap between cost of living and government overhead (i.e. the cost of regulatory compliance and taxation) among nations as well. There is also the matter of economy of scale which is why the same widget can be found at a lower price from a big box or online retailer than from a mom & pop store. If a huge Japanese company is making high quality vehicle brake parts for 20 different international brands of motor vehicles (including motorcycles) then it is going to be very hard (if not impossible) to create a start-up company anywhere else to produce those parts at a competitive price.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is certainly part of the problem, but there is a vast gap between cost of living and government overhead (i.e. the cost of regulatory compliance and taxation) among nations as well. There is also the matter of economy of scale which is why the same widget can be found at a lower price from a big box or online retailer than from a mom & pop store. If a huge Japanese company is making high quality vehicle brake parts for 20 different international brands of motor vehicles (including motorcycles) then it is going to be very hard (if not impossible) to create a start-up company anywhere else to produce those parts at a competitive price.
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part of the problem? if we AND OUR CORPORATIONS stop using china so much, other markets will appear, guaranteed. they may cost a bit more or whatever, but AT LEAST we are not financing slave labor and our own eventual downfall.

not sure how you can reconcile that versus Japan. I know it's just an example but Japan is not an authoritarian slave running country who wants nothing more than to be the most powerful world superpower for their own gain... therefore, sure economic solutions alone are ok when dealing with them, and you know what, if they win and make some money? so what? good job japan!!! being you are our ally and all.

China is our enemy. they are not our outright enemy yet, but make no mistake, they certainly are.

imho there are ethical reasons, even self preservation reasons we cannot cross, even in business. and when businesses DO so, they must be severely penalized or change for our own national security.
 
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Hypothetical said:
part of the problem? if we AND OUR CORPORATIONS stop using china so much, other markets will appear, guaranteed. they may cost a bit more or whatever, but AT LEAST we are not financing slave labor and our own eventual downfall.

not sure how you can reconcile that versus Japan. I know it's just an example but Japan is not an authoritarian slave running country who wants nothing more than to be the most powerful world superpower for their own gain... therefore, sure economic solutions alone are ok when dealing with them, and you know what, if they win and make some money? so what? good job japan!!! being you are our ally and all.

China is our enemy. they are not our outright enemy yet, but make no mistake, they certainly are.

imho there are ethical reasons, even self preservation reasons we cannot cross, even in business. and when businesses DO so, they must be severely penalized or change for our own national security.
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I agree. I persoanlly don’t have a problem buying from countries with “sweatshop” type conditions if there is a free market and true democratic capitalism going on. COuntires hsve to start siemwhere in the climb to prosperity. It actually helps them to buy their products made with sweatshop labor.

But yea I agree, the Chinese are authoritarian and suppress their labor force and people. We do what we can to move away and diversifying our supply chain.

Though I do not like trump, and I think his reasons for the trade war are wrong, the end result If he stuck with it might be good for our diversification.
 
Simpletruther said:
While we fret over Russia with its tiny economy, China is busy building concentration camps for millions of deplorables, and in a bizarre twist, is using artificial intelligence to flag those needing "reeducation" torture and death.

Voters In Hong Kong Turnout In Historic Numbers, Deliver Devastating Results | The Daily Wire

This may not end well for Hong Kong but we should support them. A murderous crackdown may be coming soon.
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The only way to help them is to go to war with China.

I don't think we would do very well at all in a war with China.

We can't even contain a bunch bat **** crazy radical Muslims running around in sandals that keep popping up like whac-a-moles.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The only way to help them is to go to war with China.

I don't think we would do very well at all in a war with China.

We can't even contain a bunch bat **** crazy radical Muslims running around in sandals that keep popping up like whac-a-moles.
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I think it’s possible that China values us as customers enough to make at least some mild reforms. But we have to show we are hitching up to our carts and leaving otherwise.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The only way to help them is to go to war with China.

I don't think we would do very well at all in a war with China.

We can't even contain a bunch bat **** crazy radical Muslims running around in sandals that keep popping up like whac-a-moles.
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oh i think we have a lot of financial leverage with china, even enough to get them to make changes. we just have to be strong enough to use it.

it will hurt some, no doubt. but so does any war, even trade wars and/or financial wars. it will never be this easy to break from them again, though. especially if we continue the same pattern of the past: looking past their crimes and continue making them most favored trade partner, etc while they undermine our finances and dealings.

Trump has inadvertently made quite the stir with them... and shown it is FEASIBLE to crack down on Communist China.
 
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