• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Hearing haven't swayed voters

KLATTU

KLATTU

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
19,259
Reaction score
6,899
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
A Marquette Law school poll, the gold-standard survey in Wisconsin, shows Trump leading Biden 47 percent to 44 percent. In October, Trump trailed Biden by 6 points (44 percent to 50 percent), and in August, Trump trailed Biden by 9 points (42 percent to 51 percent).


November:

Biden 44, Trump 47

Sanders 45, Trump 48

Warren 43, Trump 48

Buttigieg 39, Trump 47



October:

Biden 50, Trump 44

Sanders 48, Trump 46,

Warren 47, Trump 46,

Buttigieg 43, Trump 45

RUH ROj
 
So polls matter now?

LOL.

Rasmussen is a right wing cesspool. Plus, Fox News is a shameful lying syndicate. Running headlines Sondland hints "at quid pro quo."

He didn't hint.

He CONFIRMED IT.

You guys are being manipulated.
 
Tweetyborg will not unplug from their hivemind. News at 11.
 
Obscurity said:
So polls matter now?

LOL.

Rasmussen is a right wing cesspool. Plus, Fox News is a shameful lying syndicate. Running headlines Sondland hints "at quid pro quo."

He didn't hint.

He CONFIRMED IT.

You guys are being manipulated.
Click to expand...
GOP Rep. Mike Turner Grills Sondland: No One On This Planet Told You Aid Was Tied To Investigations? | Video | RealClearPolitics
No he "Presumed"it. Don't be dishonest.

GOP Rep. Mike Turner asked witness Gordon Sondland, the US Ambassador to the EU: "No one on this planet told you that this aid was tied to investigations. Yes or no?"






Gordon Sondland: "Yes."

Turner, who called Sondland's testimony "somewhat circular," questioned the ambassador's assertion that "everyone was in the loop." "If Giuliani didn't give you any expressed statement, then it can't be that you believed this [about the connection between investigations and aid] from Giuliani," Turner said. "Is that your testimony today, Amb. Sondland? That you have evidence that Donald Trump tied the investigations to aid because I don't think you're saying that."

Sondland said he was "presuming" that is what Trump meant.

Try again.
 
Obscurity said:
So polls matter now?

LOL.

Rasmussen is a right wing cesspool. Plus, Fox News is a shameful lying syndicate. Running headlines Sondland hints "at quid pro quo."

He didn't hint.

He CONFIRMED IT.

You guys are being manipulated.
Click to expand...

Watch the hearings and you won't continually embarrass yourself.

From Sondland:

"I asked the President, what do you want from Ukraine? The President responded, nothing. There is no quid pro. The President repeated, no quid pro. No quid pro quo multiple times"

When asked about quid pro quo and if anyone had ever implied or directed him to seek it:

"It was my perception".
 
KLATTU said:
GOP Rep. Mike Turner Grills Sondland: No One On This Planet Told You Aid Was Tied To Investigations? | Video | RealClearPolitics
No he "Presumed"it. Don't be dishonest.

GOP Rep. Mike Turner asked witness Gordon Sondland, the US Ambassador to the EU: "No one on this planet told you that this aid was tied to investigations. Yes or no?"






Gordon Sondland: "Yes."

Turner, who called Sondland's testimony "somewhat circular," questioned the ambassador's assertion that "everyone was in the loop." "If Giuliani didn't give you any expressed statement, then it can't be that you believed this [about the connection between investigations and aid] from Giuliani," Turner said. "Is that your testimony today, Amb. Sondland? That you have evidence that Donald Trump tied the investigations to aid because I don't think you're saying that."

Sondland said he was "presuming" that is what Trump meant.

Try again.
Click to expand...

1. Withholding an official act, in order for personal gain, is bribery. It's also extortion.

2. It -will- come out that Trump ordered this, even though you guys completely lack awareness.

3. Your angle shooting to leap and bound around any obstacle that shows how corrupt this POTUS is is getting hysterical at this point.

Trump WILL be impeached. The Senate WILL see evidence of extortion, bribery, quid pro quo, abuse of power, obstruction of justice.

The obstruction case was laid out yesterday. McConnell and Graham are going to be CEASELESSLY hounded for hypocrisy on these topics.

The Senate has been -very quiet.-

You should be concerned.
 
KLATTU said:
The House impeachment hearings haven’t moved voters so far, with a plurality still expecting President Trump to be reelected next November. The number who thinks the president’s impeachment is likely hasn’t changed, but there’s sizable support for expanding the hearings to include the activities of Joe Biden and his son.

Impeachment Hearings Haven’t Swayed Voters; Many Ask, ‘Where’s Biden?’ - Rasmussen Reports(R)

Dems-->:boohoo:
Click to expand...

So far you're correct. you also have this: "Americans Overwhelmingly Say Impeachment Hearings Won't Change Their Minds."

Impeachment Inquiry: Most Americans Say Hearings Won't Change Their Minds : NPR

And my own way of keeping track of this thing, comparing Trump's approval rating when the hearings began to today along with broken down via party those for impeachment and removal and those opposed. So far and until the next update next week. Here it is.

Impeachment hearings began on 13 Nov 2019 vs. 19 Nov 2019
Trump’s approval 13 Nov 43.9%, 19 Nov 44.1%

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval


13 Nov Democrats for impeachment 82%, removal 81%, 19 Nov Democrats for impeachment 82%, removal 83%.
13 Nov Republicans for impeachment 12%, removal 11%, 19 Nov Republicans for impeachment 9%, for Removal 10%.
13 Nov Independents for impeachment 36% removal 37%, 19 Nov Independents for impeachment 35%, for removal 38%.
13 Nov Democrats against impeachment 6%, removal 8%, 19 Nov Democrats against impeachment 9%, against removal 10%.
13 Nov Republicans against impeachment 80%, removal 82%, 19 Nov Republicans against impeachment 83%, against removal 83%.
13 Nov Independents against impeachment 39%, removal 38%, 19 Nov Independents against impeachment 40%, removal 39%.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/u9tu99dui5/econTabReport.pdf

As we can see, after one week of hearings, there hasn’t been any movement one way or the other. People seem to have their minds made up, set in concrete. We’ll see as time goes by if these hearing actually persuade any of the above to actually change their minds about Trump and impeachment.
 
ocean515 said:
Watch the hearings and you won't continually embarrass yourself.

From Sondland:

"I asked the President, what do you want from Ukraine? The President responded, nothing. There is no quid pro. The President repeated, no quid pro. No quid pro quo multiple times"

When asked about quid pro quo and if anyone had ever implied or directed him to seek it:

"It was my perception".
Click to expand...

He confirmed the initial charge; withholding official acts for personal gain.

This is a case closed.

But no. It's just beginning.

I don't have a moral hill to die on with this president; you, on the other hand, do. Keep it up. Negative partisanship lost you guys the house in 2018, and will lose you more in the future.

You do realize the republican defense of this is now relegated to ensuring we keep seeing this as a partisan hatchet job, and not a legitimate inquiry into presidential abuse of power, right? If you didn't realize that, you've been manipulated. You should stop reading the media you read immediately. Listen strictly to the hearings. And formulate your own opinion.
 
Obscurity said:
So polls matter now?

LOL.

Rasmussen is a right wing cesspool. Plus, Fox News is a shameful lying syndicate. Running headlines Sondland hints "at quid pro quo."

He didn't hint.

He CONFIRMED IT.

You guys are being manipulated.
Click to expand...













Shiff (and all Dems after the 2020 Re-Election) is going to look like Nadler soon.
 
Thread title:Hearing haven't swayed voters

Would hate to be married to one of you guys since you regularly suffer from premature ejaculation.
 
Obscurity said:
He confirmed the initial charge; withholding official acts for personal gain.

This is a case closed.

But no. It's just beginning.

I don't have a moral hill to die on with this president; you, on the other hand, do. Keep it up. Negative partisanship lost you guys the house in 2018, and will lose you more in the future.

You do realize the republican defense of this is now relegated to ensuring we keep seeing this as a partisan hatchet job, and not a legitimate inquiry into presidential abuse of power, right? If you didn't realize that, you've been manipulated. You should stop reading the media you read immediately. Listen strictly to the hearings. And formulate your own opinion.
Click to expand...

The only thing he confirmed was the exchange he had with President Trump, where the President stated, according to Sondland, no quid pro quo.

Sondland testified that the idea of quid pro quo was simply his "perception", and that's a quote, and not a direction from anyone.

You do realize your parties coup effort is blowing up in Schiff's face.

Did you catch Schiff's horrified face as Sondland refused to endorse Schiff's conspiracy when Schiff directly asked him about quid pro quo and the President?



I'm guessing not, since it's clear you didn't watch the hearing.
 
Perotista said:
So far you're correct. you also have this: "Americans Overwhelmingly Say Impeachment Hearings Won't Change Their Minds."

Impeachment Inquiry: Most Americans Say Hearings Won't Change Their Minds : NPR

And my own way of keeping track of this thing, comparing Trump's approval rating when the hearings began to today along with broken down via party those for impeachment and removal and those opposed. So far and until the next update next week. Here it is.

Impeachment hearings began on 13 Nov 2019 vs. 19 Nov 2019
Trump’s approval 13 Nov 43.9%, 19 Nov 44.1%

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval


13 Nov Democrats for impeachment 82%, removal 81%, 19 Nov Democrats for impeachment 82%, removal 83%.
13 Nov Republicans for impeachment 12%, removal 11%, 19 Nov Republicans for impeachment 9%, for Removal 10%.
13 Nov Independents for impeachment 36% removal 37%, 19 Nov Independents for impeachment 35%, for removal 38%.
13 Nov Democrats against impeachment 6%, removal 8%, 19 Nov Democrats against impeachment 9%, against removal 10%.
13 Nov Republicans against impeachment 80%, removal 82%, 19 Nov Republicans against impeachment 83%, against removal 83%.
13 Nov Independents against impeachment 39%, removal 38%, 19 Nov Independents against impeachment 40%, removal 39%.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/u9tu99dui5/econTabReport.pdf

As we can see, after one week of hearings, there hasn’t been any movement one way or the other. People seem to have their minds made up, set in concrete. We’ll see as time goes by if these hearing actually persuade any of the above to actually change their minds about Trump and impeachment.
Click to expand...

I am highly suspicious that fox news is the primary reason that there is no movement on the conservative side. We will see if the Sondland Testimony changes anything. Cooper blasted away yet another GOP defense, that Ukraine didn't know about the hold up, just last night.

The facts are pointing in this direction:

Ukraine knew it wasn't getting aid.
Ukraine knew it had to kow tow to Trump to get their official visit.
Trump directed Giuliani to handle Ukraine Matters.
Trump was the final say in releasing funds and setting and accepting meetings, meaning he is directly tied to the withholding of aid and the meeting.
Trump never asked for an investigation to be opened - and this is key - just that it be ANNOUNCED. Why? To dirty up Joe, that's the -sole reason-, and YET ANOTHER GOP Defense crumbles, that Burisma=/=Biden, and that Trump was worried about Corruption.

This is completely insane. These actions all match a pattern. Withholding federal aid to the state of California, because he is butt-hurt and scorned over their constant disapproval and lawsuits. Now he's doing it to Ukraine, holding hostage official acts because he feels they undermined him in 2016, a debunked conspiracy theory peddled only by far right actors.

This is a president who stole from a veterans charity; who mocked and scorned a deceased american POW and senator; who insults millions of americans daily with his partisan attacks; who abuses power by using his office for personal gain; who soils the respect and dignity of the office, kow towing to brutal dictators like Erdogan and North Korea; who derides our military heroes when convenient; who pardons WAR CRIMINALS as suggested by a media outlet; who constantly blames everyone else for all his ills; and finally, who cooks up schemes to cover extramarital affairs with porn stars.

This is a president who is a walking mockery, and should be scorned from office by all decent, patriotic americans.
 
ocean515 said:
The only thing he confirmed was the exchange he had with President Trump, where the President stated, according to Sondland, no quid pro quo.

Sondland testified that the idea of quid pro quo was simply his "perception", and that's a quote, and not a direction from anyone.

You do realize your parties coup effort is blowing up in Schiff's face.

Did you catch Schiff's horrified face as Sondland refused to endorse Schiff's conspiracy when Schiff directly asked him about quid pro quo and the President?



I'm guessing not, since it's clear you didn't watch the hearing.
Click to expand...


I watched the entire hearing. He explicitly stated it was a quid pro quo, ordered by Giuliani, at the express order of the president.

You don't get to deny it. It's in his opening statement and he said it throughout the hearing.

No, Trump himself didn't "direct" him personally, but I find that part hard to believe.
 
BlueElk said:










Shiff (and all Dems after the 2020 Re-Election) is going to look like Nadler soon.
Click to expand...


This is the typical MO of a Trump supporter. I despise hillary clinton but she was right; taking pleasure in a sitting member of congress having a medical issue is a disgusting display of absolutely childish vanity.

You should be ****ing ashamed of yourself.
 
ocean515 said:
The only thing he confirmed was the exchange he had with President Trump, where the President stated, according to Sondland, no quid pro quo.

Sondland testified that the idea of quid pro quo was simply his "perception", and that's a quote, and not a direction from anyone.

You do realize your parties coup effort is blowing up in Schiff's face.

Did you catch Schiff's horrified face as Sondland refused to endorse Schiff's conspiracy when Schiff directly asked him about quid pro quo and the President?



I'm guessing not, since it's clear you didn't watch the hearing.
Click to expand...





Trump 2020
 
Last edited:
Obscurity said:
I watched the entire hearing. He explicitly stated it was a quid pro quo, ordered by Giuliani, at the express order of the president.

You don't get to deny it. It's in his opening statement and he said it throughout the hearing.

No, Trump himself didn't "direct" him personally, but I find that part hard to believe.
Click to expand...

He said it was his perception. That is a quote directly from his own mouth.

Key witness perceived – wasn't told – it was 'quid pro quo'

Besides the U.S. offer of a coveted shoulder-to-shoulder photo, he said it was his perception that the president was holding up nearly $400 million in military aid – badly needed with an aggressive Russia on Ukraine's border – in exchange for an announcement of the investigations.

Sondland conceded that Trump never told him directly the security assistance was blocked for the probes, a gap in his account that Republicans and the White House seized on as evidence the president did nothing wrong. But Sondland said his dealings with Giuliani, as well as administration officials, left him with the clear understanding of what was at stake.​
 
Obscurity said:
This is the typical MO of a Trump supporter. I despise hillary clinton but she was right; taking pleasure in a sitting member of congress having a medical issue is a disgusting display of absolutely childish vanity.

You should be ****ing ashamed of yourself.
Click to expand...



KARMA - Be Advised
 
Last edited:
BlueElk said:
KARMA - Be Advised
Click to expand...

When you take pleasure in the ailments of others - I think you lose all rational moral ground to tell ME about Karma.

Deplorable, after all, was apt.
 
ocean515 said:
He said it was his perception. That is a quote directly from his own mouth.

Key witness perceived – wasn't told – it was 'quid pro quo'

Besides the U.S. offer of a coveted shoulder-to-shoulder photo, he said it was his perception that the president was holding up nearly $400 million in military aid – badly needed with an aggressive Russia on Ukraine's border – in exchange for an announcement of the investigations.

Sondland conceded that Trump never told him directly the security assistance was blocked for the probes, a gap in his account that Republicans and the White House seized on as evidence the president did nothing wrong. But Sondland said his dealings with Giuliani, as well as administration officials, left him with the clear understanding of what was at stake.​
Click to expand...

He CONFIRMED the "meeting" was a quid pro quo. You're falling for claptrap.

His PRESUMPTION was the Aid was tied to that.

You lose, yet again.
 
Obscurity said:
He CONFIRMED the "meeting" was a quid pro quo. You're falling for claptrap.

His PRESUMPTION was the Aid was tied to that.

You lose, yet again.
Click to expand...

LOL

Hardly.

Clap trap?

Sworn testimony is now clap trap?

Now that's evidence of a poster who has nothing to offer but desperation.

Don't be so visibly desperate.
 
KLATTU said:
The House impeachment hearings haven’t moved voters so far, with a plurality still expecting President Trump to be reelected next November. The number who thinks the president’s impeachment is likely hasn’t changed, but there’s sizable support for expanding the hearings to include the activities of Joe Biden and his son.

Impeachment Hearings Haven’t Swayed Voters; Many Ask, ‘Where’s Biden?’ - Rasmussen Reports(R)

Dems-->:boohoo:
Click to expand...

Nonetheless, the reality is that with these hearings it has been proven without a shadow of a doubt that Trump felt the "need" to find dirt of Biden. He knows he is not good enough on his own "accomplishments" to win a second term. If that wasn't enough, he threatened (by withholding aid from Ukraine for at least 6 weeks) the national security of that country which makes us unreliable to all countries in their quest for Democracy. It plays right into the hands of Putin in establishing the autocratic control he professes.

One more example of Trump being a supporter of our stated enemy (Russia/Putin). Simply stated a traitor. If a traitor gets reelected in 2020, we deserve what will come thereafter...............becoming a 2nd hand nation that no one trusts.

Absolutely, lets get Trump reelected. It will mean "his" personal goals will be accomplished at the cost of our nation losing its greatness.
 
Last edited:
Obscurity said:
When you take pleasure in the ailments of others - I think you lose all rational moral ground to tell ME about Karma.

Deplorable, after all, was apt.
Click to expand...



No - Change "think" to either "deflect" or "attack".

Thoughts are3 mine, last word is yours.
 
BlueElk said:
No - Change "think" to either "deflect" or "attack".

Thoughts are3 mine, last word is yours.
Click to expand...

You celebrate mockery of ailments.

Like I said, you can't even begin to try and lecture me about Karma.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom