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Two things have blown the democrats "inquiry" all to hell

Jay59 said:
Incorrect and a bit sophomoric.
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Absolutely wrong and childish.


Jay59 said:
True. They are not even following the rules they laid down.
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The Democratic leadership are following rules "laid down" when the Republicans held the majority.

Jay59 said:
In a sane world you would be joking. Biden boasted about doing what the Democrats accuse Trump of doing, holding up aid for a personal favor.
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Absolutely false, even tRump supporters have agreed that V.P. Biden was promoting defined National AND International security policies, that his actions were NOT personal AND if anything put his son and the company worked for in greater jeopardy than he would have if he had not acted.

Jay59 said:
There is also discussion in the phone call about Ukraine's involvement in the 2016 election,
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Which has been totally debunked by our National Security organizations.

Jay59 said:
Finally, there is Hunter Biden who is a person of interest in corruption cases in both Ukraine and China.
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Which is a red herring, that has nothing to do with the current impeachment charges and if corruption was present should be taken up by a very willing and cooperative Bill Barr.

Jay59 said:
You have to willfully blind to miss the references to corruption.
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NO, you have to be willfully partisan to refuse to acknowledge the evidence of National and International Security organizations.
 
Irwin Corey said:
Absolutely wrong and childish.
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I already said that. You did realize it meant you, right?

The Democratic leadership are following rules "laid down" when the Republicans held the majority.
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Since you want it this way, absolutely wrong and childish. In the House Rules, points of order are always priority.

Absolutely false, even tRump supporters have agreed that V.P. Biden was promoting defined National AND International security policies, that his actions were NOT personal AND if anything put his son and the company worked for in greater jeopardy than he would have if he had not acted.
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Mostly irrelevant. You do acknowledge that there is a legitimate issue wrt Hunter Biden, which is progress. In turn, this acknowledges that there are legitimate reasons to ask for information, something you have been denying.

Which has been totally debunked by our National Security organizations. Which is a red herring, that has nothing to do with the current impeachment charges and if corruption was present should be taken up by a very willing and cooperative Bill Barr. NO, you have to be willfully partisan to refuse to acknowledge the evidence of National and International Security organizations.
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Absolutely wrong and more than a little childish. There are points that have been "debunked" but not the whole and there is a larger pattern that the Bidens a embedded. The intelligence organizations have definitely not finished with that, nor is the Biden issue resolved. You are correct that Barr is the person that head an investigation. You just ahve the parties wrong.
 
Logical1 said:
Today Elise Stefanic got Axex Vindman to admit it is US law to investigate corruption in a country BEFORE aid is given. Second the US signed a treaty with 6 other countries including Ukraine to investigate corruption.

As I see it this totally blows all to hell Schiff's and the democrats "inquiry". President Trump was just following the law.

Time for Pelosi and Schiff to pack up their clown show and move on. Maybe just maybe they could get on with the business they were sent to Washington to do for a change.

Comments?
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Comments? Provide some ****ing links for once because your opinion threads are pure trash. That's my comment.
 
Jay59 said:
I already said that. You did realize it meant you, right?
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"I" was saying that you were wrong in assessing my comment: "Except that Ukraine had already been vetted with regard to corruption before the aid was approved and certainly before Don Vito tRump withheld it." as incorrect and no, wrong again, childish is not the same is as sophomoric; it is several levels down from sophomoric.


Jay59 said:
Since you want it this way, absolutely wrong and childish. In the House Rules, points of order are always priority.
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We, actually YOU, were talking rules not points of order: "They are not even following the rules they laid down." -Jay59.

Jay59 said:
Mostly irrelevant. You do acknowledge that there is a legitimate issue wrt Hunter Biden, which is progress. In turn, this acknowledges that there are legitimate reasons to ask for information, something you have been denying.
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The issue with the Bidens has been debunked, universally, as a non issue as evidenced by the lack of concern or interest by the Attorney General.

Jay59 said:
Absolutely wrong and more than a little childish. There are points that have been "debunked" but not the whole and there is a larger pattern that the Bidens a embedded. The intelligence organizations have definitely not finished with that, nor is the Biden issue resolved. You are correct that Barr is the person that head an investigation. You just ahve the parties wrong.
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No you are trying to conflate the two, unrelated, issues or obfuscate tRumps culpability in Ukraine. Which is moronically disingenuous.
 
Logical1 said:
Today Elise Stefanic got Axex Vindman to admit it is US law to investigate corruption in a country BEFORE aid is given. Second the US signed a treaty with 6 other countries including Ukraine to investigate corruption.

As I see it this totally blows all to hell Schiff's and the democrats "inquiry". President Trump was just following the law.

Time for Pelosi and Schiff to pack up their clown show and move on. Maybe just maybe they could get on with the business they were sent to Washington to do for a change.

Comments?
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Two things?

Two thousand things.

Democrats = Criminally insane arsonists
 
ElChupacabra said:
Well the big problem here is the idea of investigating Biden wasn't based on any good leads; just unsubstantiated "connect the dots".
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That is a problem, why? Sounds like a standard investigation.

Irwin Corey said:
"I" was saying that you were wrong in assessing my comment: "Except that Ukraine had already been vetted with regard to corruption before the aid was approved and certainly before Don Vito tRump withheld it." as incorrect and no, wrong again, childish is not the same is as sophomoric; it is several levels down from sophomoric.
We, actually YOU, were talking rules not points of order: "They are not even following the rules they laid down." -Jay59.
The issue with the Bidens has been debunked, universally, as a non issue as evidenced by the lack of concern or interest by the Attorney General.
No you are trying to conflate the two, unrelated, issues or obfuscate tRumps culpability in Ukraine. Which is moronically disingenuous.
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You keep saying debunked. It doesn't mean what you think it means. Answered to your satisfaction is not sufficient. Answered to the satisfaction of the appropriate authority is sufficient, Thus, Trump/Russia collusion has been debunked. The several issues of the Bidens have not.

Other than that, you conceded a couple of points, for which I thank you. Better luck next time.
 
Jay59 said:
That is a problem, why? Sounds like a standard investigation.
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Because there will typically be a solid lead to start an investigation versus "hey, I think that guy did some thing". I have no issue with Biden being investigated, but it should be because of some type of evidence that warrants it.
 
Jay59 said:
That is a problem, why? Sounds like a standard investigation.


You keep saying debunked. It doesn't mean what you think it means. Answered to your satisfaction is not sufficient. Answered to the satisfaction of the appropriate authority is sufficient, Thus, Trump/Russia collusion has been debunked. The several issues of the Bidens have not.

Other than that, you conceded a couple of points, for which I thank you. Better luck next time.
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You can always tell a looser by their unwarranted self proclaimed victory; like you have just done. Anyone, and everyone, of authority INCLUDING Volker and Morrison agree that President Biden was promoting the United States best intrests and established foreign policy and that by forcing the corrupt prosecutor to resign put the company his son worked for in greater, not less, jeopardy.

Better luck next time.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Because there will typically be a solid lead to start an investigation versus "hey, I think that guy did some thing". I have no issue with Biden being investigated, but it should be because of some type of evidence that warrants it.
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You just described the entire impeachment inquiry. Since you support that, what is the problem?
 
Logical1 said:
Today Elise Stefanic got Axex Vindman to admit it is US law to investigate corruption in a country BEFORE aid is given. Second the US signed a treaty with 6 other countries including Ukraine to investigate corruption.

As I see it this totally blows all to hell Schiff's and the democrats "inquiry". President Trump was just following the law.

Time for Pelosi and Schiff to pack up their clown show and move on. Maybe just maybe they could get on with the business they were sent to Washington to do for a change.

Comments?
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It is INVESTIGATED, particularly where military aid is concerned. The congressional committees responsible must conduct an assessment of the the risks involved in releasing funds and DOD provides an assessment and a sign off to those congressional committees as well. So that base is covered before the funding ever goes to the WH for final sign off.

If Trump was really worried about the risk, then he should have looped back through the Congress and DOD to try to flesh out his concerns, NOT SET LOOSE THE RUDY GANG including nimrod Sondland and not rely on this supposed assessment made during the brief period of Zalinsky's inauguration.

So, lets get this straight DonDon. You avoid all the material that would have been developed in order to approve the military aid package coming out of Congress including the DOD sign off and instead presto-chango, decide that "its all good now" in Ukraine based on the US Inauguration Party "assessment". Ah-huh!

DonDon released the aid to Ukraine because Congress was closing in on him and WB complaint had been released. DonDon lost his nerve. Had he held onto his nerve his plot would have paid off as unbeknown to him Zalinsky was 48 hours away from making the public announcement of investigations Trump had wanted. Zalinsky canceled the interview he had scheduled with CNN as soon as the aid package was released.
 
ElChupacabra said:
So who has filed a complaint about Biden's actions in Ukraine or China?
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None that I know of. The old expression is follow the money, of which there is a lot.
 
Logical1 said:
Today Elise Stefanic got Axex Vindman to admit it is US law to investigate corruption in a country BEFORE aid is given. Second the US signed a treaty with 6 other countries including Ukraine to investigate corruption.

As I see it this totally blows all to hell Schiff's and the democrats "inquiry". President Trump was just following the law.
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Jesus Christ dude. Do you seriously know less than nothing about this entire investigation. What you just quoted proves Biden innocent and Trump guilty. Biden was the one requiring corruption to be investigated within Ukraine before he gave them aid.

Trump wasn't trying to get corruption in Ukraine investigated. He was hoping to force Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden in order ot make him look bad. By the admission of the Ukrainians themselves nothing that Joe or Hunter Biden ever did violated Ukrainian law.

What Trump and Rudi were hoping is that something Joe Biden did violated U.S. Law, but in trying to obtain evidence that Joe Biden broke U.S. Law they ended up breaking the exact same U.S. Law that they accused Biden of breaking. And in the end it turns out Joe Biden did NOT break U.S. Law at all.

So to recap for you....


Joe Biden did the exact thing you're claiming Trump did, which was perfectly legal and a natural part of his job. Trump did the exact thing he claimed Biden did, which is an impeachable crime.
 
Jay59 said:
None that I know of. The old expression is follow the money, of which there is a lot.
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The same applies to the current president and his business interests in various parts of the world. Based on that logic, one wouldn't be wrong to question how much consideration Trump gives to his financial interests in his dealings with nations to which he has business ties.
 
ElChupacabra said:
The same applies to the current president and his business interests in various parts of the world. Based on that logic, one wouldn't be wrong to question how much consideration Trump gives to his financial interests in his dealings with nations to which he has business ties.
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Based on logic. That's funny.

Mr Trump and then President Trump were and are under constant investigation. Remember 1,500,000 documents surrendered. Based on logic Joe Biden should be under intense investigation. So should Hunter Biden.
 
Jay59 said:
Based on logic. That's funny.

Mr Trump and then President Trump were and are under constant investigation. Remember 1,500,000 documents surrendered. Based on logic Joe Biden should be under intense investigation. So should Hunter Biden.
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Well why hasn't the GOP launched that investigation? Why doesn't this administration allow certain officials to testify?
 
j brown's body said:
You are confused, There is no known corruption of Biden, and Trump didn't mention corruption. He mentioned Biden.

Hard to believe you are still confused. This has been pointed out about 200 times.
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The president's defense strategy so far has been trying to convince themselves (and others) that asking for a Biden (or Hunter, or Crowdstrike) investigation is the same as asking to investigate Ukrainian corruption.

They need to fudge the facts for their arguments to make any sense at all.
 
Jay59 said:
Finally, there is Hunter Biden who is a person of interest in corruption cases in both Ukraine and China. You have to willfully blind to miss the references to corruption.
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Why would Trump suggest China open an investigation into Biden if there already was one?

I wouldn't think any negotiation was necessary to get Zelensky to announce an already ongoing investigation.

I think you've been misinformed.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Well why hasn't the GOP launched that investigation? Why doesn't this administration allow certain officials to testify?
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You have been complaining about one.
 
less right said:
Why would Trump suggest China open an investigation into Biden if there already was one? I wouldn't think any negotiation was necessary to get Zelensky to announce an already ongoing investigation. I think you've been misinformed.
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Are you being dense on purpose? We don't run China's law enforcement services.

Who said anything about announcing an investigation? They are usually done in as much secrecy as possible.
 
Jay59 said:
Are you being dense on purpose? We don't run China's law enforcement services.

Who said anything about announcing an investigation? They are usually done in as much secrecy as possible.
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Then show us the investigations. Show us where Hunter is a person of interest.
 
Jay59 said:
You have been complaining about one.
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Except this one was done to target a specific individual and not nationwide Ukranian corruption, includes a personal lawyer running backchannel operations, and potentially involves the POTUS leveraging foreign aid for a political advantage. Again, if this were all some big misunderstanding, then having officials testify to clear it up shouldn't be a problem.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Except this one was done to target a specific individual and not nationwide Ukranian corruption, includes a personal lawyer running backchannel operations, and potentially involves the POTUS leveraging foreign aid for a political advantage. Again, if this were all some big misunderstanding, then having officials testify to clear it up shouldn't be a problem.
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:lamo

As if that explained everything. You have nothing, so you have to make this stuff up out of thin air.
 
Lets check the time line of the clown inquiry. Left wingers here grudgingly admit that the law says before we send aid to a country, they can be checked out for corruption. In fact the US is part of a 6 county pact on corruption. How ever left wingers point out that Ukraine had already been vetted.

But----------------and that is the relevant but, Zelensky was only elected in April of this year. Therefore President Trump had plenty of reason to examine the country for corruption under the new president
before aid was given. What democrats raised a stink about didnt happen till Sept.

Again the bottom line is simply a political coup.
 
rocket88 said:
What is funny is that for every thread from a liberal about hiw " this is the thing that will sink Trump" there's one from a Trumowtte claiming that it's all over.
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The Republicans in the senate have made it clear that no matter how much evidence there is against Trump, they're not going to vote to impeach, so there is literally nothing that will "sink" Trump. But eventually it will be up to the American people, and if Trump sticks to only trying to energize his base:

Trump’s Midterm Closing Argument: Pure Racial Fear

I think he'll have a tough time wining the election.
 
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