Riddle Me This, Republicans

swing_voter said:

Yes, the Ukrainian government is corrupt, but that doesn't mean any evidence of wrongdoing they uncovered is automatically discarded. It would have to bare extra scrutiny is all.

Presidents ask other governments for help all the time with all kinds of things.

Trump made a mistake by asking the Ukrainians for help, but was it a crime? Nope.

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A crime is not needed for impeachment.

Question:

Do you understand the implications of allowing, explicitly, the president to investigate people or companies tied to people that are US citizens for any reason, and, to invite foreign governments to do so while not involving our own apparatus for investigation?

Donald Trump Jr.
✔
@DonaldJTrumpJr
“The Ukrainian President stood in front of a world press and repeatedly, consistently, over and over again, interview after interview, said he had no knowledge of military aid being withheld, meaning no quid pro quo."@RepRatcliffe destroys dem arguments.

KLATTU said:

Donald Trump Jr.
✔
@DonaldJTrumpJr
“The Ukrainian President stood in front of a world press and repeatedly, consistently, over and over again, interview after interview, said he had no knowledge of military aid being withheld, meaning no quid pro quo."@RepRatcliffe destroys dem arguments.

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And the Ukrainian president saying this is completely irrelevant.

And so is Ratcliffe.

Answer the question or move along.

Obscurity said:

If Trump cared so much about Corruption, and sees Ukraine as corrupt:

1. Why did he not use our own government and our own LE which Trump has BROAD authority over to investigate Biden?

2. Why rely on a universally "corrupt" government, like Ukraine, to investigate US citizens?

Why is it acceptable that Trump's hypocrisy on this issue is normalized? You don't get to say we're not giving you aid because we're concerned you're corrupt, but, we want you to investigate a US Citizen.

This doesn't square. The defense makes no sense.

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You mean you think the President should order the USA to invade Ukraine militarily and seize all their government records and then interrogate and waterboard relevant Ukrainians for information, right? That is the only way to investigate events in Ukraine by Ukrainians. That is the only way We all know that the Democratic Party is the party of War, Death and Destruction.

Are you also pissed off the Trump stopped Obama giving ALL of Ukraine to Russia and Putin?

Obscurity said:

If Trump cared so much about Corruption, and sees Ukraine as corrupt:

1. Why did he not use our own government and our own LE which Trump has BROAD authority over to investigate Biden?

2. Why rely on a universally "corrupt" government, like Ukraine, to investigate US citizens?

Why is it acceptable that Trump's hypocrisy on this issue is normalized? You don't get to say we're not giving you aid because we're concerned you're corrupt, but, we want you to investigate a US Citizen.

This doesn't square. The defense makes no sense.

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Of course it makes no sense to Leftist consumers of Goebbels Media pap.

He used Giuliani as FDR used Harry Hopkins in the UK.

He dealt with a new leader, a non-politician like Trump who sought to turn around the country.

As with Reagan and Gorby... the time was right.

Obscurity said:

A crime is not needed for impeachment.
n?

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Nor any wrongdoing Apparently.

All you need is party desperate to unseat a President because they know their candidates are a joke!
LAFFRIOT

Carleen said:

So why are the people who were in on the call told not to testify? If there was nothing wrong with the call, the proof is not being allowed. This makes no sense.

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I've been watching the cable news this morning and, based on what I'm seeing, the most compelling thing the Democrats came up with is testimony from a guy who was told by another guy that he overheard a phone conversation between Trump and Sondland wherein Trump mentioned Biden.

What we saw yesterday was two career diplomats who seemed to be upset that their opinions with regard to foreign policy weren't given priority over the president's opinions regarding foreign policy. If crap like that is what was going on and if testimony is going to be based primarily on policy disagreement then the WH is right to make it as hard as possible for Democrats to get their narrative out. It's a political game at that point, not a criminal one.

swing_voter said:

Yes, the Ukrainian government is corrupt, but that doesn't mean any evidence of wrongdoing they uncovered is automatically discarded. It would have to bare extra scrutiny is all.

Presidents ask other governments for help all the time with all kinds of things.

Trump made a mistake by asking the Ukrainians for help, but was it a crime? Nope.

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Making that help request conditional on in turn helping the Trump campaign is an abuse of power.

Republicans absolutely refuse to answer one question: "Is it okay for a president to ask a foreign government to investigate a political opponent?"

And lest anybody forget: it’s against the law for a political campaign to solicit anything of value from a foreign government. That is why these hearings are necessary.

Lutherf said:

Probably because he wasn't asking anyone to investigate Biden. As was testified to yesterday by witnesses hand picked by the Democrats, Trump was asking that corruption related to the 2016 campaign be investigated. The Biden stuff was more about investigating a potentially problematic relationship between Burisma (with Hunter Biden on the board) and Joe Biden who was the point man for Ukraine policy. The hand picked witnesses ALSO acknowledged the potentially problematic nature of that setup.

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He publicly asked Ukraine and China to investigate the Bidens- why again didn't he go through the proper channels?

Lutherf said:

I've been watching the cable news this morning and, based on what I'm seeing, the most compelling thing the Democrats came up with is testimony from a guy who was told by another guy that he overheard a phone conversation between Trump and Sondland wherein Trump mentioned Biden.

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Then they turned it into a song, but eliminated the 3rd and 4th hand commentary... didn’t fit the beat:

What we saw yesterday was two career diplomats who seemed to be upset that their opinions with regard to foreign policy weren't given priority over the president's opinions regarding foreign policy. If crap like that is what was going on and if testimony is going to be based primarily on policy disagreement then the WH is right to make it as hard as possible for Democrats to get their narrative out. It's a political game at that point, not a criminal one.

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These professionals” didn’t like Reagan’s foreign policy much either. Seems he changed the world for the better. Left to usual thinking, the USSR still might be enslaving hundreds of millions.

Rogue Valley said:

Making that help request conditional on in turn helping the Trump campaign is an abuse of power.

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Please show where that happened.

It didn’t.

Stealers Wheel said:

I just don't know what the fuss is all about. Trump was making friends with the new Ukrainian president. One way make friends is to ask them to do you a 'favor.' Then, they feel you owe them a favor in return. The next thing you know, you're making deals and throwing parties and you're lifelong chums.

So I ask, what's a little favor between friends?:lol:

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First off, the day the Trump administration released the transcript of the call with the president of Ukraine, the DOJ released a statement--
From DOJ Spokesperson Kerri Kopek-
"A Department of Justice team led by U.S. Attorney John Durham is separately exploring the extent to which a number of countries, including Ukraine, played a role in the counterintelligence investigation directed at the Trump campaign during the 2016 election. While the Attorney General has yet to contact Ukraine in connection with this investigation, certain Ukrainians who are not members of the government have volunteered information to Mr. Durham, which he is evaluating,"

The Ukrainian Embassy in Washington has already gone on record as stating a Democratic National Committee (DNC) insider, Alexandra Chalupa during the 2016 election solicited dirt on Donald Trump’s campaign chairman and even tried to enlist the country's president, Petro Poroshenko to help. At the time of the contacts in 2016, the embassy knew Chalupa as a Ukrainian American activist and learned only later of her ties to the DNC. He said the embassy considered her requests an inappropriate solicitation of interference in the U.S. election.

In a FOIA early this year it uncovered emails from Burisma to Obama/Kerry State Department where Hunter Biden's name was being used as leverage to get meetings with top persons in the Obama administration. The emails were printed in the WSJ.

Yesterday George Kent testified that he found Hunter Biden's position at Burisma to be unethical and reported it to the Obama WH.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven and I for one am glad to know that Durham is investigating it.

3leftsdoo said:

If it doesn't fit, you MUST acquit!

:thumbs:

What the Democrats have = Nothing

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Interesting comparison.

Most people now believe that the glove was a distraction. OJ was guilty despite the glove.

Trump is in the same boat now. Depending on his jury to nullify the facts.

Obscurity said:

If Trump cared so much about Corruption, and sees Ukraine as corrupt:

1. Why did he not use our own government and our own LE which Trump has BROAD authority over to investigate Biden?

2. Why rely on a universally "corrupt" government, like Ukraine, to investigate US citizens?

Why is it acceptable that Trump's hypocrisy on this issue is normalized? You don't get to say we're not giving you aid because we're concerned you're corrupt, but, we want you to investigate a US Citizen.

This doesn't square. The defense makes no sense.

Click to expand...

We need information from Ukraine in any investigation into Biden's corrupt actions. That's what Trump was asking Zelenskiy for.

zimmer said:

Then they turned it into a song, but eliminated the 3rd and 4th hand commentary... didn’t fit the beat:





These professionals” didn’t like Reagan’s foreign policy much either. Seems he changed the world for the better. Left to usual thinking, the USSR still might be enslaving hundreds of millions.

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Guess who said that if you feel like something is suspicious or questionable you should report it, even if you don't know what really is going on and will probably be wrong but you've got to do it?

Trump said late Tuesday that everyday Americans should monitor their neighbors for questionable behavior.

“The real greatest resource is all of you, because you have all those eyes and you see what’s happening,” he told listeners in Myrtle Beach, S.C.

“People move into a house a block down the road, you know who’s going in,” Trump continued. "You can see and you report them to the local police.

“You’re pretty smart, right?” he asked his audience. "We know if there’s something going on, report them. Most likely you’ll be wrong, but that’s OK.

“That’s the best way. Everybody’s their own cop in a way. You’ve got to do it. You’ve got to do it.”

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Trump: Report your neighbors for suspicious activities | TheHill

Rogue Valley said:

Republicans absolutely refuse to answer one question: "Is it okay for a president to ask a foreign government to investigate a political opponent?"

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IF there is evidence of actual possible wrongdoing by that opponent, absolutely. which there is.

and that is not all he was asking for.

Rogue Valley said:

Republicans absolutely refuse to answer one question: "Is it okay for a president to ask a foreign government to investigate a political opponent?"

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If there is suitable evidence there has been corruption, criminality... then of course it is acceptable.

Countries have agreements to fight such things.

Having or seeking a political office does not absolve any individual from being held accountable for crimes or corruption... unless you are a Democrat it seems.

americanwoman said:

He publicly asked Ukraine and China to investigate the Bidens- why again didn't he go through the proper channels?

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None of the ~12 diplomats/administration people that have testified before the House stated that Joe Biden did anything wrong in seeking the dismissal of Ukraine Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.

That dismissal was a US government policy demand, a Ukrainian society demand, a EU policy demand, and a IMF loan demand. Shokin was not just corrupt, but blatantly-in-your-face corrupt.

As far as Hunter Biden, the last I checked there is no US law against a US citizen accepting foreign employment with the best salary remuneration he could negotiate.

Granted, it's not good optics, but hardly criminal. Americans all over the world do the exact same thing.

Rogue Valley said:

None of the ~12 diplomats/administration people that have testified before the House stated that Joe Biden did anything wrong in seeking the dismissal of Ukraine Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.

That dismissal was a US government policy demand, a Ukrainian society demand, a EU policy demand, and a IMF loan demand. Shokin was not just corrupt, but blatantly-in-your-face corrupt.

As far as Hunter Biden, the last I checked there is no US law against a US citizen accepting foreign employment with the best salary remuneration he could negotiate.

Granted, it's not good optics, but hardly criminal. Americans all over the world do the exact same thing.

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no one cares what the schift vetted testifiers failed to mention, there is enough evidence on the face of it that it deserves investigating.

americanwoman said:

He publicly asked Ukraine and China to investigate the Bidens- why again didn't he go through the proper channels?

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That video...he was TOTALLY trolling the media but, as with most of his trolling, he's got a point. Hunter Biden sure did seem to have a habit of making out like a bandit everywhere daddy was involved politically.

Mycroft said:

We need information from Ukraine in any investigation into Biden's corrupt actions. That's what Trump was asking Zelenskiy for.

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Answer, enumerated, please.

Not one of you have done so.

I wonder why.

Lutherf said:

That video...he was TOTALLY trolling the media but, as with most of his trolling, he's got a point. Hunter Biden sure did seem to have a habit of making out like a bandit everywhere daddy was involved politically.

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sure seems like he was laundering money for political favors for dear old dad, doesn't it?

americanwoman said:

Guess who said that if you feel like something is suspicious or questionable you should report it, even if you don't know what really is going on and will probably be wrong but you've got to do it?






Trump: Report your neighbors for suspicious activities | TheHill

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Well, we have the transcript... and there is nothing suspicious.

Taylor, Kent and Vindmann have all been asked to identify the corruption in the call... Taylor and Kent didn’t say a peep yesterday when asked... and Vindmann, who was given ample time in... could not find it either (and he was “in” the call).

But, Con Pop Biden and his son **** Hunter seem to have had quite the profitable operation where **** Hunter followed up on Con Pop’s visits... making quite the haul.

In the case of Ukraine, they called in their chip, the Biden name... at our State Dept.