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Lindsey Graham by Michael Tomasky

While his position might be wrong, it's not unconstitutional.

The Senate is empowered to make the call. That's why the quality of the evidence doesn't matter much.

The only evidence that matters is that which will convince GOP senators getting rid of Trump is in their (theoretically our) best interest.

Everything I've seen so far has plenty of wiggle room to use to rationalize a decision either way.
 
What, does the spineless and soulless git actually think someone is going to be fooled into thinking he was ever open to the possibility of taking action against Trump and thus conclude that his claim to not see anything here means something? Does he post on DP? We've got a lot of those here....
 
Another legacy ruined by blind loyalty to the shouting carrot. I wonder if it's blackmail, but I tend to doubt it.
 
Lindsey Graham, legacy?

:lamo
 
One thing that I heard mentioned today from an attorney on MSNBC that I hadn't considered before regarding the extortion of Ukraine to do Trump's bidding.

Let's say that he gets away with this, but does it again (or has already) with another foreign government, one that's not sympathetic to the US political ideology of supporting and promoting democracies worldwide? Those other foreign governments, like Saudi Arabia for example, have other priorities such as getting the best price for their oil possible.

What would prevent any country such as Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, or even China -- (since Trump also invited them to join the Biden witch hunt) ---- to hold that over Trump's head in the future and use it as a bargaining chip to blackmail him into returning the favor for them? Would Trump be willing to do something totally against US policy or US security again just to keep his secret from the American people?
 
HumblePi said:
One thing that I heard mentioned today from an attorney on MSNBC that I hadn't considered before regarding the extortion of Ukraine to do Trump's bidding.

Let's say that he gets away with this, but does it again (or has already) with another foreign government, one that's not sympathetic to the US political ideology of supporting and promoting democracies worldwide? Those other foreign governments, like Saudi Arabia for example, have other priorities such as getting the best price for their oil possible.

What would prevent any country such as Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, or even China -- (since Trump also invited them to join the Biden witch hunt) ---- to hold that over Trump's head in the future and use it as a bargaining chip to blackmail him into returning the favor for them? Would Trump be willing to do something totally against US policy or US security again just to keep his secret from the American people?
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of course he would. Trump is no different than a Mafia Don. he just doesn't have people killed.
 
Democrats...

Brought down by reality again.

:2mad:
 
WillyPete said:
While his position might be wrong, it's not unconstitutional.

The Senate is empowered to make the call. That's why the quality of the evidence doesn't matter much.

The only evidence that matters is that which will convince GOP senators getting rid of Trump is in their (theoretically our) best interest.

Everything I've seen so far has plenty of wiggle room to use to rationalize a decision either way.
Click to expand...

Looking the other way against all the evidence and NOT convicting Trump is NOT a rational decision. It is pure partisan save our presidents ass and 2020 nominee.
 
HumblePi said:
One thing that I heard mentioned today from an attorney on MSNBC that I hadn't considered before regarding the extortion of Ukraine to do Trump's bidding.

Let's say that he gets away with this, but does it again (or has already) with another foreign government, one that's not sympathetic to the US political ideology of supporting and promoting democracies worldwide? Those other foreign governments, like Saudi Arabia for example, have other priorities such as getting the best price for their oil possible.

What would prevent any country such as Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, or even China -- (since Trump also invited them to join the Biden witch hunt) ---- to hold that over Trump's head in the future and use it as a bargaining chip to blackmail him into returning the favor for them? Would Trump be willing to do something totally against US policy or US security again just to keep his secret from the American people?
Click to expand...

Good speculative scenarios but you do NOT have to speculate about the future. What is it Putin is holding over the head of Trump today?
 
HumblePi said:
One thing that I heard mentioned today from an attorney on MSNBC that I hadn't considered before regarding the extortion of Ukraine to do Trump's bidding.

Let's say that he gets away with this, but does it again (or has already) with another foreign government, one that's not sympathetic to the US political ideology of supporting and promoting democracies worldwide? Those other foreign governments, like Saudi Arabia for example, have other priorities such as getting the best price for their oil possible.

What would prevent any country such as Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, or even China -- (since Trump also invited them to join the Biden witch hunt) ---- to hold that over Trump's head in the future and use it as a bargaining chip to blackmail him into returning the favor for them? Would Trump be willing to do something totally against US policy or US security again just to keep his secret from the American people?
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It's likely already happened, and the reason we pulled out of Syria.
 
HumblePi said:
What would prevent any country such as Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, or even China -- (since Trump also invited them to join the Biden witch hunt) ---- to hold that over Trump's head in the future and use it as a bargaining chip to blackmail him into returning the favor for them? Would Trump be willing to do something totally against US policy or US security again just to keep his secret from the American people?
Click to expand...

We just witnessed this with Trumps betrayal of US allies the Syrian Kurds for the exclusive benefit of Turkish president Erdogan (and ISIS). Trump did this despite being warned not to do so by White House advisers, the National Security Council, the US military, and US allies all over the globe. And no US troops have come home from Syria. The numbers are virtually the same. They are now guarding an oil field in central Syria while Erdogan's Islamist proxies are committing war crimes against the Kurds.

And Trump will be welcoming the murderous lout Erdogan to DC on Wednesday (11/13).
 
haymarket said:
Looking the other way against all the evidence and NOT convicting Trump is NOT a rational decision. It is pure partisan save our presidents ass and 2020 nominee.
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Tell that to the Senate. I'm sure that will resolve the whole situation.

You don't need to convince me Trump's a scumbag. You need to convince GOP voters/donors to tell their senator that supporting Trump is bad for their party and career.

Until there's some reliable way to drive home that message, I believe we're wasting energy better spent on finding a more appealing candidate to run in 2020.
 
haymarket said:
Good speculative scenarios but you do NOT have to speculate about the future. What is it Putin is holding over the head of Trump today?
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lots n lots
 
haymarket said:
Looking the other way against all the evidence and NOT convicting Trump is NOT a rational decision. It is pure partisan save our presidents ass and 2020 nominee.
Click to expand...

Since nearly every Republican Congressman has stated that it was a mistake but not enough to impeach, they should be asked the question one by one. "You wouldn't have done what Trump did, but why not?" I'd be very interested to hear the reasons why they wouldn't have dared to do such a thing and in the end the answer always leads to 'it's illegal'. If what he did was illegal, and if it's a crime he should be impeached for it.
 
HumblePi said:
One thing that I heard mentioned today from an attorney on MSNBC that I hadn't considered before regarding the extortion of Ukraine to do Trump's bidding.

Let's say that he gets away with this, but does it again (or has already) with another foreign government, one that's not sympathetic to the US political ideology of supporting and promoting democracies worldwide? Those other foreign governments, like Saudi Arabia for example, have other priorities such as getting the best price for their oil possible.

What would prevent any country such as Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, or even China -- (since Trump also invited them to join the Biden witch hunt) ---- to hold that over Trump's head in the future and use it as a bargaining chip to blackmail him into returning the favor for them? Would Trump be willing to do something totally against US policy or US security again just to keep his secret from the American people?
Click to expand...


Do you mean like what he has done with Russia since day one?

Everyone knows that there conspiracy and coordination with Russia, the only reason Mueller could not prove it to a legal standard is Russia covered it's tracks.

If trump steps out of line e all Putin has to do is release the information he has hidden, and that would be the end of trump.

And trump knows it...
 
WillyPete said:
Tell that to the Senate. I'm sure that will resolve the whole situation.

You don't need to convince me Trump's a scumbag. You need to convince GOP voters/donors to tell their senator that supporting Trump is bad for their party and career.

Until there's some reliable way to drive home that message, I believe we're wasting energy better spent on finding a more appealing candidate to run in 2020.
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You are asking me to convince the local Napoleon in the institution that he is not the rightful Emperor of France.
 
haymarket said:
You are asking me to convince the local Napoleon in the institution that he is not the rightful Emperor of France.
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Bravo. I couldn't have described the impeachment effort much better than that. Lots of wasted political capital for little purpose.

Meanwhile we're celebrating a pack of Diet Che Guevaras like they're aren't just promising the moon to anyone who will listen, and fighting over who's the real revolutionary.

We need to find an adult who will consider the job, if there's any left.
 
GDViking said:
Epstein???
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Oh yeah Epstein. I'm convinced that Barr did Trump's bidding with Jeffrey Epstein and made certain he'd never testify. I think they had him murdered.
 
JackA said:
When Graham says he's made up his mind and "nothing is there", he means there's nothing Trump did he cares about. For his Republican Party, it is all about holding power. The Constitution is a memory.

The Secret Reason Republicans Won’t Impeach Trump
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He could have at least waited until the evidence was presented so that it would appear he made and informed and thoughtful decision, even though everyone knows his prejudice makes him incapable of either.
 
WillyPete said:
Bravo. I couldn't have described the impeachment effort much better than that. Lots of wasted political capital for little purpose.

Meanwhile we're celebrating a pack of Diet Che Guevaras like they're aren't just promising the moon to anyone who will listen, and fighting over who's the real revolutionary.

We need to find an adult who will consider the job, if there's any left.
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Did you even understand my post that you duplicated?
 
haymarket said:
Did you even understand my post that you duplicated?
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I believe so. I took it to mean you don't think that you're going to have much luck convincing GOP senators to break ranks for the impeachment.

Feel free to clarify.
 
CaughtInThe said:
of course he would. Trump is no different than a Mafia Don. he just doesn't have people killed.
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Our Kurdish allies in Syria, our Ukrainian allies fighting Russia. Plenty of blood on his hands.
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