We are not all cultists or Trumpets

Glitch said:

You were saying?



New Orleans used hurricane Katrina to illegally confiscate firearms from law-abiding citizens, however, the practice of illegal confiscation by Democrats in New Orleans existed long before hurricane Katrina. New Orleans Police would illegally confiscate firearms at traffic stops, telling the victim they could get their property back when they appear in court with proof of ownership.

You don’t lose gun rights in traffic stop

Nor is New Orleans by any means an isolated incident. You have similar illegal confiscations occurring throughout California that has been going on for decades.

While it may not be a nationwide effort by the anti-American left to confiscate all privately owned firearms (their publicly stated objective). It is yet another example of the fascist left seeking to impose their will, and reinforcing the need for even more privately owned firearms.

Are you seriously trying to imply that there are no existing laws that govern firearms and their use? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There will never be mutual respect because fascist leftists respect no one that doesn't agree with them in absolute lockstep. Why do you think ANTIFA (Anti-First Amendment) movement is so popular among the fascist left? Why do you think anti-American leftist universities ban all speech with which they don't agree?

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1. What happened in New Orleans during Katrina was not a “successful scenario” of gun confiscation. It was a limited action brought about by extraordinary circumstances.

2. Your fictitious explanation of Antifa (short for anti-fascists) is hilariously wrong.

Nalu said:

Why the Russian part? I totally agree with the troll part.

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Well, I seriously doubt that russian troll farms stick solely with FB and Twitterthe Russians are known to

Well, for at least some of them, English doesn't appear to be their native language.

A lot of people here seem to think this DP is too small for the Russians to bother with, but this is an ideal forum for such activity, and I seriously doubt they stick solely with FB and Twitter.

beancounter said:

Well, I seriously doubt that russian troll farms stick solely with FB and Twitterthe Russians are known to

Well, for at least some of them, English doesn't appear to be their native language.

A lot of people here seem to think this DP is too small for the Russians to bother with, but this is an ideal forum for such activity, and I seriously doubt they stick solely with FB and Twitter.

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How many DP members are there? If I send enough Ancestry kits to the staff, can they distribute them to the membership for me? I don't trust birth certificates. I want blood. Or spit. Or however it's done.

dairyair said:

The post contains a lie, unilateral gun confiscation, and terms of hate, Socialist/Communist/Democrats.
All in the 1st sentence.
Spare the fake Allegiance. Except to party over country.

Those are not words about fellow Americans, but words to an enemy.

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- - - - - LAST TIME - SAME WORDS - - - - -


Originally Posted by dairyair
I suspect the reason is per the post from the likes of blue elk. They don't view people with different ideas as part of the country, but as enemies.
Propagated by the likes of 24/7 reality tv calling themselves news stations.
And some are into thinking those hate tv stations tell real news.
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BlueElk -

We agree - Support of the POTUS and my Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America - makes us enemies. You certainly made your point.

-----

The current Oath of Allegiance of the United States is as follows:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

-

BlueElk -

Patriotic Americans live by this Oath and do not "suspect" enemies.


-----

Blue Elk -

Last word is yours.

BlueElk said:

- - - - - LAST TIME - SAME WORDS - - - - -


Originally Posted by dairyair
I suspect the reason is per the post from the likes of blue elk. They don't view people with different ideas as part of the country, but as enemies.
Propagated by the likes of 24/7 reality tv calling themselves news stations.
And some are into thinking those hate tv stations tell real news.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




BlueElk -

We agree - Support of the POTUS and my Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America - makes us enemies. You certainly made your point.

-----

The current Oath of Allegiance of the United States is as follows:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

-

BlueElk -

Patriotic Americans live by this Oath and do not "suspect" enemies.


-----

Blue Elk -

Last word is yours.

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I will take it.
Your oath is to the party of R's, not to the USA. The D's and I's of this country are your fellow citizens. Not your enemy. The D's are not systematically coming to take all guns. D's are not communists. Only those RW who hate fellow Americans and see them as an enemy say such things.

BlueElk said:

- - - - - LAST TIME - SAME WORDS - - - - -


Originally Posted by dairyair
I suspect the reason is per the post from the likes of blue elk. They don't view people with different ideas as part of the country, but as enemies.
Propagated by the likes of 24/7 reality tv calling themselves news stations.
And some are into thinking those hate tv stations tell real news.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




BlueElk -

We agree - Support of the POTUS and my Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America - makes us enemies. You certainly made your point.

-----

The current Oath of Allegiance of the United States is as follows:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

-

BlueElk -

Patriotic Americans live by this Oath and do not "suspect" enemies.


-----

Blue Elk -

Last word is yours.

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Sorry, I do not support lying to the American people, Congress, the courts and every wife the POS was ever married to.

And, those who do are probably my enemies.

Nalu said:

How many DP members are there? If I send enough Ancestry kits to the staff, can they distribute them to the membership for me? I don't trust birth certificates. I want blood. Or spit. Or however it's done.

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Sure, relatively few DP members, but think of all of the potential lurkers, as well as people Googling political topics. This place get's plenty of exposure.

calamity said:

Sorry, I do not support lying to the American people, Congress, the courts and every wife the POS was ever married to.

And, those who do are probably my enemies.

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Of course you do. You are an avid Clinton supporter. That makes you an ardent supporter of being lied to, lying to the American people habitually, lying to Congress "congenitally," and lying to every victim of that POS "Slick Willy." So don't try to pretend otherwise, we know better.

gdgyva said:

I support the duly elected President...who by the way i didnt vote for

Same way i supported Obama, who i also did vote for....and each and every President before that since i was 18 and raised my right hand to serve this country....i may not agree with them, but the PEOPLE elected them, and until they are removed from office, they are the Presidents

I have read the Mueller papers....and no Trump wasnt exonerated, but he also wasnt impeached....so there wasnt enough evidence to convince the American people....that is still the standard we go by, right? Or have i missed something, and we no longer have the same standards of guilt in this country.

Now we have the "inquiry"....which most of it has been done in committee rooms in secrecy. it is just now starting to come out into the light....and since the administration is holding their witnesses and documents, it is kind of hard to render any verdicts on it....dontcha think?

So what exactly are you asking....me to declare Trump's guilt? Sure as soon as it is proven, i will be first in line. Right now, you arent even close.....

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You've read Mueller's report. So you know about the eight different ways that Trump tried to obstruct the investigation. With plenty of evidence. Can we agree at the very least that he obstructed the investigation, and that this is a crime?

Nalu said:

My question was specific to your comment. I don't need you to tell me anything about election interference by Russia. You said that there are "a lot" of trolls on DP and that you suspect that "quite a few" of them are Russian. So I asked you why you think that in case you've picked up on linguistic patterns or noticed time zone irregularities or have some inside scoop on why Russian trolls would target DP. But now I see that we're down to "maybe three" paid Russian trolls "tops". I guess I took your comment too literally.

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As to why any Russian troll would target DP, answer is, same as they target all the other social media sites on their radar.
For these people, this is a scripted job, done assembly line style, three shifts round the clock.
I know what regular hardcore Trumpers sound like, and I know how easily a lot of them are influenced by propaganda originating from Russia.
For example, the entire "Ukraine was the REAL culprit in 2016 election interference" (aka "Crowdstrike")story originated with the Russian GRU, their military intelligence arm.

Crowdstrike enters the picture because it’s the security firm the DNC hired to investigate the breach back in 2016, and the first of many to identify Russia’s military intelligence agency, the GRU, as the perpetrator. A publicly-traded company headquartered in California, Crowdstrike has nothing to do with Ukraine, except in conspiracyland, which pretends that Crowdstrike co-founder Dmitri Alperovitch is Ukrainian, and that he framed Russia for election interference both on the DNC’s orders and to punish Putin for invading his homeland.

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Thus it sometimes becomes difficult to distinguish between willing fools and tools, and the pros, at least for a few moments.
But based on DP's ranking, maybe it's a maximum of three, maybe a dozen at peak periods, maybe it's never been more than one or two all along.
But just consider, for a moment, the number of "drive-by" posters that we've seen over the last couple of years, people who join up, stir the pot for a while, then disappear or get banned.

Some are Stormfront, but in reality maybe they are from Stormfront, or maybe they too might be paid trolls who are trained to interact as if they're from Stormfront. Hey, some chefs specialize in creme brulee and other flaming desserts, some specialize in lobster, some specialize in sauces.

Digger said:

You've read Mueller's report. So you know about the eight different ways that Trump tried to obstruct the investigation. With plenty of evidence. Can we agree at the very least that he obstructed the investigation, and that this is a crime?

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Is obstruction a crime worthy of impeachment? That is the question...

That is the question that the American people will need to answer if it is ever posed to them....

Just as was perjury worthy of impeachment for President Clinton? the people said no, so the senators said no

Are you okay with their verdict either way it comes? I am....

Put all the evidence on the table....let the AMerican people tell their congressmen and senators whether or not they want Trump still in office....if you dont hit 60% to impeach, the evidence isnt there

Kamala Harris Cackles at Joe Biden about ignoring the U.S. Constitution to enact UNILATERAL (Communist Act) gun laws.



NEVER give a Socialist/Communist Democrat your gun.

gdgyva said:

Is obstruction a crime worthy of impeachment? That is the question...

That is the question that the American people will need to answer if it is ever posed to them....

Just as was perjury worthy of impeachment for President Clinton? the people said no, so the senators said no

Are you okay with their verdict either way it comes? I am....

Put all the evidence on the table....let the AMerican people tell their congressmen and senators whether or not they want Trump still in office....if you dont hit 60% to impeach, the evidence isnt there

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That is such circular reasoning. You'll continue to support the President as long as the GOP Senators do, which they will do as long as the GOP base does. Which means that you're not first in line to condemn him as soon as you have proof, like you said. You've already got the proof, and you're still just following the bandwagon. It must be very copacetic, being OK with whatever happens on principle.

Most of the GOP base, they aren't so good at double think. Their heads aren't wrapped around the idea that Trump obstructed the Mueller investigation, but it's OK because the GOP Senators say it's OK because the GOP base says it's OK. They think what they're told. They believe Trump's lies that it's all a deep state witch hunt. They believe Barr's lies that the Mueller report exonerates Trump. That's what makes them act so culty, is that they're inundated in a media environment that feeds them a false narrative and tells them not to trust the normies. The same media that's been calling us "libtards" and telling them that we're out to destroy America because we hate it for some reason for the past 30 years. And you complain that we have trouble distinguishing between Trump supporters who have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, and Trump supporters like yourself who simply support him because, well I dunno, you'll support any President right up until the point until he's removed from office. How principled of you!

I see a crowd of people standing behind Trump, wearing matching shirts that say "read the transcript" when they obviously haven't read the memo that says it's not a transcript on the first page, and I think wow, what a bunch of group thinking numb skulls. They're acting like they're in a cult of personality. They'll believe and say and do whatever their dear leader tells them to.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

As to why any Russian troll would target DP, answer is, same as they target all the other social media sites on their radar.
For these people, this is a scripted job, done assembly line style, three shifts round the clock.
I know what regular hardcore Trumpers sound like, and I know how easily a lot of them are influenced by propaganda originating from Russia.
For example, the entire "Ukraine was the REAL culprit in 2016 election interference" (aka "Crowdstrike")story originated with the Russian GRU, their military intelligence arm.



Thus it sometimes becomes difficult to distinguish between willing fools and tools, and the pros, at least for a few moments.
But based on DP's ranking, maybe it's a maximum of three, maybe a dozen at peak periods, maybe it's never been more than one or two all along.
But just consider, for a moment, the number of "drive-by" posters that we've seen over the last couple of years, people who join up, stir the pot for a while, then disappear or get banned.

Some are Stormfront, but in reality maybe they are from Stormfront, or maybe they too might be paid trolls who are trained to interact as if they're from Stormfront. Hey, some chefs specialize in creme brulee and other flaming desserts, some specialize in lobster, some specialize in sauces.

Click to expand...

Ok, I see now. It is rather telling to me that they so angrily protest Russian involvement at all. There is no doubt in the world that Russia interfered and interferes with our electoral processes. I would think that an innocent bystander would acknowledge that and steer clear of it rather than proclaiming that what happened never happened. It could very well be a guilty conscience.

Digger said:

That is such circular reasoning. You'll continue to support the President as long as the GOP Senators do, which they will do as long as the GOP base does. Which means that you're not first in line to condemn him as soon as you have proof, like you said. You've already got the proof, and you're still just following the bandwagon. It must be very copacetic, being OK with whatever happens on principle.

Most of the GOP base, they aren't so good at double think. Their heads aren't wrapped around the idea that Trump obstructed the Mueller investigation, but it's OK because the GOP Senators say it's OK because the GOP base says it's OK. They think what they're told. They believe Trump's lies that it's all a deep state witch hunt. They believe Barr's lies that the Mueller report exonerates Trump. That's what makes them act so culty, is that they're inundated in a media environment that feeds them a false narrative and tells them not to trust the normies. The same media that's been calling us "libtards" and telling them that we're out to destroy America because we hate it for some reason for the past 30 years. And you complain that we have trouble distinguishing between Trump supporters who have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, and Trump supporters like yourself who simply support him because, well I dunno, you'll support any President right up until the point until he's removed from office. How principled of you!

I see a crowd of people standing behind Trump, wearing matching shirts that say "read the transcript" when they obviously haven't read the memo that says it's not a transcript on the first page, and I think wow, what a bunch of group thinking numb skulls. They're acting like they're in a cult of personality. They'll believe and say and do whatever their dear leader tells them to.

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you have a major issue with reading comprehension i see

i said "the american people" not the GOP base, or even Trumps fans

if the american people want Trump impeached, he will be impeached

if not, he will be like Clinton...and either found not guilty, or maybe Nancy doesnt even start the actual impeachment hearings

The GOP senators have NOTHING to do with what i said....maybe you need to go back and reread

They will do what the american people want them to do....what we voted them into office to do....which is exactly what they are supposed to do....

gdgyva said:

you have a major issue with reading comprehension i see

i said "the american people" not the GOP base, or even Trumps fans

if the american people want Trump impeached, he will be impeached

if not, he will be like Clinton...and either found not guilty, or maybe Nancy doesnt even start the actual impeachment hearings

The GOP senators have NOTHING to do with what i said....maybe you need to go back and reread

They will do what the american people want them to do....what we voted them into office to do....which is exactly what they are supposed to do....

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The "American people" are not the ones voting on impeachment. Senators vote on it. And, yes, a majority of them are GOP :doh

gdgyva said:

you have a major issue with reading comprehension i see

i said "the american people" not the GOP base, or even Trumps fans

if the american people want Trump impeached, he will be impeached

if not, he will be like Clinton...and either found not guilty, or maybe Nancy doesnt even start the actual impeachment hearings

The GOP senators have NOTHING to do with what i said....maybe you need to go back and reread

They will do what the american people want them to do....what we voted them into office to do....which is exactly what they are supposed to do....

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I'm sorry. I mentally edited what you said so that it actually made some sort of sense. My mistake. If "the American people" don't throw Trump out of office, you'll continue to support him. So, when do you look at the evidence and make your own decision about what sort of actions you support with your own mind? Y'know, like someone who wasn't in a cult would do.

calamity said:

The "American people" are not the ones voting on impeachment. Senators vote on it. And, yes, a majority of them are GOP :doh

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and public pressure will sway their votes....or dont you believe in the american people anymore?

if the people want Trump out of office, he will be gone

If not, he wont be

It is as simple as that.....

Digger said:

I'm sorry. I mentally edited what you said so that it actually made some sort of sense. My mistake. If "the American people" don't throw Trump out of office, you'll continue to support him. So, when do you look at the evidence and make your own decision about what sort of actions you support with your own mind? Y'know, like someone who wasn't in a cult would do.

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asked and answered

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...-all-cultists-trumpets-80.html#post1070907560

I support the duly elected President...who by the way i didnt vote for

Same way i supported Obama, who i also did vote for....and each and every President before that since i was 18 and raised my right hand to serve this country....i may not agree with them, but the PEOPLE elected them, and until they are removed from office, they are the Presidents

I have read the Mueller papers....and no Trump wasnt exonerated, but he also wasnt impeached....so there wasnt enough evidence to convince the American people....that is still the standard we go by, right? Or have i missed something, and we no longer have the same standards of guilt in this country.

Now we have the "inquiry"....which most of it has been done in committee rooms in secrecy. it is just now starting to come out into the light....and since the administration is holding their witnesses and documents, it is kind of hard to render any verdicts on it....dontcha think?

So what exactly are you asking....me to declare Trump's guilt? Sure as soon as it is proven, i will be first in line. Right now, you arent even close.....

Nalu said:

Ok, I see now. It is rather telling to me that they so angrily protest Russian involvement at all. There is no doubt in the world that Russia interfered and interferes with our electoral processes. I would think that an innocent bystander would acknowledge that and steer clear of it rather than proclaiming that what happened never happened. It could very well be a guilty conscience.

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Well, it kinda has to be because why else would they deflect so much?
My favorite is how they kept focusing on the hacking and how hacks could not have possibly changed the outcome of the votes in sufficient numbers.
Pfffftttt!!! As if we're saying that a bunch of Boris Badenovs ran around hacking into individual voting machines or something...



No, what the Russians mostly did was act as interlopers in our national dialogue, spewing the equivalent of well over a billion dollars in eyeball traffic to influence people's VIEWS on ISSUES. The Russians learned how to leverage big data from streams like those provided by Cambridge Analytica. (See this Google Search!)


They fine tuned their tsunami of BS stories and conspiracy theories to strike directly at the most low information sectors of the social media using public and they managed to skew their perceptions of almost anything and everything related to the election, and they figured out how to sow distrust and hatred, even distrust and hatred of our most basic and essential institutions, and they managed to figure out how to sow hatred between the two parties.

And to top it all off, they were helped by a presidential candidate WHO ACTUALLY USES all those conspiracy theories as if they were REALITY. The Russian GRU says Ukraine was the real villain in 2016 election interference, Trump peddles it as gospel truth, ergo Trump peddles Russian propaganda.

Does it really matter if Donald Trump actually believes that Russian crap he peddles or if he just uses it because it helps him?
Nope, not one bit, not as far as the results go anyway.
Whether or not he actually believes the stuff or not just shows if he's "dumb or dumber", that's all.

Basically, the Russians figured out that there was (surprise surprise) some friction between the two camps and they figured out how to act as a force multiplier, an amplifier, of that friction. They figured out how to "turbocharge" it till it has now reached tornado status.

The Russians have figured out how to diddle our political weather systems.
The actual IT aspects of their misadventures is a minor event in all of this....huge in its implications but short lived, efficient and small in footprint...they got in, got what they needed, and then left and went to work.

But the bulk of their work was that of infecting people's minds, not voting machines.

gdgyva said:

asked and answered

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...-all-cultists-trumpets-80.html#post1070907560

I support the duly elected President...who by the way i didnt vote for

Same way i supported Obama, who i also did vote for....and each and every President before that since i was 18 and raised my right hand to serve this country....i may not agree with them, but the PEOPLE elected them, and until they are removed from office, they are the Presidents

I have read the Mueller papers....and no Trump wasnt exonerated, but he also wasnt impeached....so there wasnt enough evidence to convince the American people....that is still the standard we go by, right? Or have i missed something, and we no longer have the same standards of guilt in this country.

Now we have the "inquiry"....which most of it has been done in committee rooms in secrecy. it is just now starting to come out into the light....and since the administration is holding their witnesses and documents, it is kind of hard to render any verdicts on it....dontcha think?

So what exactly are you asking....me to declare Trump's guilt? Sure as soon as it is proven, i will be first in line. Right now, you arent even close.....

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OK. So you have looked at the evidence and you have declared Trump guilty of obstruction of the Mueller investigation. Now, do you support Trump? If so, why?

Digger said:

OK. So you have looked at the evidence and you have declared Trump guilty of obstruction of the Mueller investigation. Now, do you support Trump? If so, why?

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holy sheep****, batman

i think you are more dense than a black hole

and you have declared Trump guilty of obstruction of the Mueller investigation

please tell me where in gods earth did i say that?

next time will be you last time

gdgyva said:

holy sheep****, batman

i think you are more dense than a black hole

and you have declared Trump guilty of obstruction of the Mueller investigation

please tell me where in gods earth did i say that?

next time will be you last time

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Um, hold on, let me find it. OK, post 811. Wow. What am I doing with my life?

"Is obstruction a crime worthy of impeachment? That is the question..."

Applying a little bit of logic to that, I surmised that this question would only be "the question" if Trump were guilty of obstruction. Otherwise it would be an irrelevant question.

For some reason we're having a lot of trouble communicating here. Let me be very clear, one step at a time.

You read the Mueller report, which detailed eight different times that Trump tried to obstruct the investigation. So, do you believe that Trump obstructed the Mueller investigation? This time please answer the question directly instead of telling me a different question to ask. I don't seem to be able to draw the correct inferences when you are not direct.

Digger said:

Um, hold on, let me find it. OK, post 811. Wow. What am I doing with my life?

"Is obstruction a crime worthy of impeachment? That is the question..."

Applying a little bit of logic to that, I surmised that this question would only be "the question" if Trump were guilty of obstruction. Otherwise it would be an irrelevant question.

For some reason we're having a lot of trouble communicating here. Let me be very clear, one step at a time.

You read the Mueller report, which detailed eight different times that Trump tried to obstruct the investigation. So, do you believe that Trump obstructed the Mueller investigation? This time please answer the question directly instead of telling me a different question to ask. I don't seem to be able to draw the correct inferences when you are not direct.

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I said THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...i have said that many many times....throughout this thread and many others

I will abide with what the American people as a whole want....will you?

if they declare him to be guilty, then he will be impeached, because they will force the senate to impeach

if they think the evidence is lacking, then there wont be the calls forcing those votes....

that is what the democrats are facing....period

gdgyva said:

I said THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...i have said that many many times....throughout this thread and many others

I will abide with what the American people as a whole want....will you?

if they declare him to be guilty, then he will be impeached, because they will force the senate to impeach

if they think the evidence is lacking, then there wont be the calls forcing those votes....

that is what the democrats are facing....period

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I'm having a lot of trouble getting a straight answer out of you. Could you, a thinking person who has looked at the evidence, tell me what your opinion is? Regardless of what other people think. Regardless of what "THE AMERICAN PEOPLE" think. What do you, a person who is supposedly trying to convince me that you're not in a cult, think, independently of what other people think?