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We are not all cultists or Trumpets

Thoreau72 said:
Not sure I understand all your points, but I will answer your specific question and pass on the rhetorical ones.
Here are examples of how government is broken and how it assaults the founding document:

The USA Patriot Act contradicts and nullifies the Fourth Amendment. Our duly elected representatives gave that to us.
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That's false though. They used the Constitutional process to define what is, and is not "unreasonable search and seizure". Also, that's a matter of interpretation.
But in any case, they used their Constitutional authority to enact laws that are legally NOT unreasonable search and seizure. If you want to contest that, we have a process.
If you claim they "nullified it", that's false both as a legal matter, and as a matter of the fact that in every other non-patriot-act related action, you still enjoy the 4th.

See, your issue is not government bad...it's that you don't understand what the issue is, so you can't mobilize support to change anything...you don't know what you'd be changing or why, apparently. No shame in that, politics is boring and can be complex, you can change that by correcting yourself.

The persecution and torture of the journalist Julian Assange is an affront to civilized society and the rule of law, yet not one person in the US government can find enough conscience to object.
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Assange has been legally charged with crimes, you oppose that... OK.

That you reject the rule of law makes you look like you don't value the United States or what it stands for. That's unfortunate. Yes, I agree, since you oppose laws, you should not vote, it would be pointless. Just be lawless and enjoy yourself. Maybe move to some lawless region and go buck wild?
 
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Mach said:
That's false though. They used the Constitutional process to define what is, and is not "unreasonable search and seizure". Also, that's a matter of interpretation.
But in any case, they used their Constitutional authority to enact laws that are legally NOT unreasonable search and seizure. If you want to contest that, we have a process.
If you claim they "nullified it", that's false both as a legal matter, and as a matter of the fact that in every other non-patriot-act related action, you still enjoy the 4th.

See, your issue is not government bad...it's that you don't understand what the issue is, so you can't mobilize support to change anything...you don't know what you'd be changing or why, apparently. No shame in that, politics is boring and can be complex, you can


Assange has been legally charged with crimes, you oppose that... OK.

That you reject the rule of law makes you look like you don't value the United States or what it stands for. That's unfortunate. Yes, I agree, since you oppose laws, you should not vote, it would be pointless. Just be lawless and enjoy yourself. Maybe move to some lawless region and go buck wild?
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Semantics is all you have sir, and rationalization.

Allowing the government to violate the Fourth Amendment as it pleases is an assault on the Fourth Amendment any way you cut it, any way you choose to rationalize it.

Allowing indefinite detention is a violation of the spirit and letter of Habeas.

All you have shown here is your ability to rationalize assaults on the Constitution, playing semantics in the process.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Semantics is all you have sir, and rationalization.
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Laws and Constitutional process, are not semantics and "rationalization".
That you get them confused does shed some light on why you post CT all the time.
Allowing the government to violate the Fourth Amendment as it pleases is an assault on the Fourth Amendment any way you cut it, any way you choose to rationalize it.
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It legally doesn't violate it. And if you think it does, take it to court. You know, the legal way.

A nation of laws, not fools. Right?
 
Mach said:
Laws and Constitutional process, are not semantics and "rationalization".
That you get them confused does shed some light on why you post CT all the time.

It legally doesn't violate it. And if you think it does, take it to court. You know, the legal way.

A nation of laws, not fools. Right?
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Whatever you need sir, whatever you need to believe. Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation and rationalization in the pursuit of liberty is no virtue.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Whatever you need sir, whatever you need to believe. Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation and rationalization in the pursuit of liberty is no virtue.
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You don't know what liberty is.
 
Oborosen said:
Yay, someone remembered me... sorry trix.
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I see that. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, btw.
Tell us what The Proud Boys are about and why you are a member.
 
Mr Person said:
If I page through the thread, will I see that you called out rhetoric like this:





How about this?



This?







No?

Well, then maybe you really should take a good long look in the mirror. If you're OK with all the hateful and dishonest rhetoric coming from the people who are Trumpists, which deny being, and you never appear in threads criticizing anything Trump has said or done, what is the practical difference between you and a Trumpist?

All the people who consider themselves the site's "reasonable conservatives" spend their days here keeping their heads down and picking side-fights with left-lean posters. Never once do they of their own accord (that is without this kind of prodding) voice an objection to something Trump has said or done. Never once do they attack Trumpist posters the way they might left-lean posters. But they don't want to be considered Trumpists.

A phrase about wanting to have your cake and eat it too comes to mind.
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Mr Person (of Massachusetts):

A dishonest tactic of the "Left" is to use a word like "rhetoric" to describe the "truth", nothing has changed.

Appears to have paged to the 12th post, got feelings hurt by the truth and lashed out.

The Center for Immigration Studies has determined Massachusetts to be a Sanctuary State operating outside US Federal Laws, and is portrayed by "The Squad" member, Representative Ayanna Pressley, Senator Elizabeth Warren and other Socialist/Communist Democrats.

When Socialists like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are accepted by the Democratic National Convention as Democrats, Democrats become Socialists.

It is the "illegal is illegal" thing.

From Post # 553
 
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3leftsdoo said:
Excellent points.
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3leftsdoo -

Thank you for the sarcasm, I think.

I understand three lefts make a right, and your donkey icon thingy.

Yang/Tulsi scares me cause that could be their best ticket, and you could give them the idea.

Thanks for the laughs.
 
Hey, supposed non-Trumper Republicans, remember back in 1998, when a president lying under oath in a deposition was all the rage?
JUST IN: President Donald Trump likely lied to special counsel Robert Mueller about conversations he had in 2016 regarding WikiLeaks’ plans to release information stolen from Democrats by Russian hackers.
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Now what? Impeach, right?


https://mobile.twitter.com/MotherJones/status/1194322995550064640
 
TurtleDude said:
The clintons and the Uranium, foreign contributions to the Money laundering Clinton Foundation, Clinton's involvement with Marc Rich, Chinese influence over the Clinton Campaign, it goes on and on and on
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Your lies go on and on. As do those from the rest of the Trump cultists.
 
TurtleDude said:
The clintons and the Uranium, foreign contributions to the Money laundering Clinton Foundation, Clinton's involvement with Marc Rich, Chinese influence over the Clinton Campaign, it goes on and on and on
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Do you mean the foundation that was not shut down like law enforcement did to the Trump Foundation run by the Trump Crime Family? You know the foundation which stole money from veterans. I am sure you heard of it. :roll:
 
Mach said:
You don't know what liberty is.
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Of course not. It is you and you alone who knows what liberty is.

You are experiencing rhetorical 'mach tuck' if you know what that is.

You would have me believe that the men of 1787 fully intended for their new government to be able to make all sorts of exceptions to the Bill Of Rights and the USC based upon political winds.

Mach Tuck, and out of control
 
BlueElk said:
vegas giants -

Properly framed, George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair), could be the subject used to initiate several interesting posts.

Until your post, neither George Orwell's political or personal life, nor placing any value on a Socialist, ever crossed my mind.

Yes, Democratic Socialist George Orwell is my favorite Socialist.

The reasoning gets real complicated, real quick, and belongs in a separate (framed) "Orwell" Post.
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A "like" for knowing who Eric Blair was.

Just out of curiosity, your opinion of Shaw and the Fabians?
 
nota bene said:
A "like" for knowing who Eric Blair was.

Just out of curiosity, your opinion of Shaw and the Fabians?
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I would like to keep the "like".

However as stated, I did not know/remember any of his personal information and looked him up prior to my reply.

Never heard of Shaw and the Fabians before.

I found Shaw was credited with many quotes.

For example -

"Dickens, without the slightest understanding of Socialism etc., would have seen at a glance that there is something wrong with a regime that needs a pyramid of corpses every few years."

Live and Learn.
 
dairyair said:
I suspect the reason is per the post from the likes of blue elk. They don't view people with different ideas as part of the country, but as enemies.
Propagated by the likes of 24/7 reality tv calling themselves news stations.
And some are into thinking those hate tv stations tell real news.
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The current Oath of Allegiance of the United States is as follows:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

-
Patriotic Americans live by this Oath and do not "suspect" enemies.
-

All (24/7 reality tv) facts are provided from the other end, the horses mouth:



At the 2019 (Socialist/Communist) DNC Presidential Debate - U. S. Senator Kamala Harris Cackles after declaring: "Yes We Can" ignore the United States Constitution and Unilaterally use Executive Orders to impose Gun Regulations (Communist Action)



U. S. Congresswoman, Maxine Waters "pushes" for violence and draws the attention of the "Oathkeepers" who, legally, defend the First and Second United States Constitutional Amendments from the likes of her.



Socialist/Communist Democratic National Convention Presidential candidates like, Gillibrand, Harris, Warren, Sanders and others, propose to neutralize the United States of America, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), allowing illegal immigrants, MS-13, and others to flourish in Los Angeles, California.

-

The reply to the Original Post (OP) reflects the typical tactics of the Socialist/Communist Democrats of the "Left", nothing has changed. (Tactic - Deflection)

The disasterous reality of the "Left" policies that result in the "Los Angeles homeless" was deflected into "different ideas". Americans are suffering, under Socialist Rule and the guise of "different ideas". A success story for the "Left".

The "suspect" reply; lacks substance, implies motive, makes no reference to the issue or resolution, and amounts to around the pasture flatulence.

Consider the source.

The OP is a statement of fact, an observation, requiring no explanation to the informed and otherwise easily explained to the non afflicted.

Note: The reply offered no resolution as, previously explained, Los Angeles percieved a success story of the "Left".

LA is a Sanctuary City in a Sanctuary State represented by the likes of Senator Kamala Harris, Representatives Maxine Waters and Adam Schiff (Today, stated he was incorrect his 40 recent claims to have met, or know, the Whistleblower). These Socialist/Communist Democrats have sworn an Oath of Allegiance to the United States Constitution.



U.S. Congressman Adam Schiff's last line - denies meeting, or knowing, the "Whistleblower".
 
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BlueElk said:
The current Oath of Allegiance of the United States is as follows:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

-
Patriotic Americans live by this Oath and do not "suspect" enemies.
-

All (24/7 reality tv) facts are provided from the other end, the horses mouth:



At the 2019 (Socialist/Communist) DNC Presidential Debate - U. S. Senator Kamala Harris Cackles after declaring: "Yes We Can" ignore the United States Constitution and Unilaterally use Executive Orders to impose Gun Regulations (Communist Action)



U. S. Congresswoman, Maxine Waters "pushes" for violence and draws the attention of the "Oathkeepers" who, legally, defend the First and Second United States Constitutional Amendments from the likes of her.



Socialist/Communist Democratic National Convention Presidential candidates like, Gillibrand, Harris, Warren, Sanders and others, propose to neutralize the United States of America, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), allowing illegal immigrants, MS-13, and others to flourish in Los Angeles, California.

-

The reply to the Original Post (OP) reflects the typical tactics of the Socialist/Communist Democrats of the "Left", nothing has changed. (Tactic - Deflection)

The disasterous reality of the "Left" policies that result in the "Los Angeles homeless" was deflected into "different ideas". Americans are suffering, under Socialist Rule and the guise of "different ideas". A success story for the "Left".

The "suspect" reply; lacks substance, implies motive, makes no reference to the issue or resolution, and amounts to around the pasture flatulence.

Consider the source.

The OP is a statement of fact, an observation, requiring no explanation to the informed and otherwise easily explained to the non afflicted.

Note: The reply offered no resolution as, previously explained, Los Angeles percieved a success story of the "Left".

LA is a Sanctuary City in a Sanctuary State represented by the likes of Senator Kamala Harris, Representatives Maxine Waters and Adam Schiff (Today, stated he was incorrect his 40 recent claims to have met, or know, the Whistleblower). These Socialist/Communist Democrats have sworn an Oath of Allegiance to the United States Constitution.



U.S. Congressman Adam Schiff's last line - denies meeting, or knowing, the "Whistleblower".
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Wow, talk about a cult-like post. If it were only coherent, we'd have us a winner, folks.
 
gdgyva said:
It is becoming impossible to discuss anything on this site anymore.

If you disagree with anything that a progressive/liberal/democrat writes or thinks you are usually labelled a cultist or a Trumpet....they dont argue the value of your thought or idea....they attack you because you are ONE OF THEM

And yes, i am sure some times you are being attacked just as well....

I think it is a microcosm of America....

And something needs to happen to break the mold....the animosity and anger displayed is frightening

And i know we are more enlightened and better informed than the majority of other people.

I think we all care what happens to our country....and yes, we have differing views on how we should do things

I just see this coming to a really bad ending....and even though i love discussing politics, this is no longer fun...no longer educational...

We should be able to discuss differences as adults....but maybe that is just too much to ask now
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I'm sorry, but when some folks on this site espouse the same views their published pundits promote; that liberals are evil, baby killing, godless heathens, that democrats are destroyers of liberty, that leftists hate the country and want to destroy it and install authoritarian communism, it's pretty hard to be "civil."

The right has universally been fed propaganda by pundits that I mention above. Anyone can hear it plain as day on Hannity, Ingraham, Coulter, Owens.

The right has declared the left an enemy to be defeated, as parroted on this very forum by some "very fine posters."

I find it absolutely hysterical that, like baby boomers, you're on here claiming, after literal DECADES of your side throwing haymakers, the -second- the left pushes back, OH NOES! IT'S WAR NOW! I AM A VICTIM!

Puhlease.

You know how we take you seriously?

When you refuse to espouse the opinions your dear leaders above feed you.

When you stop electing officials like Gym Jordan who ignored sexual assault, and then defend him, while saying Katie Hill should resign.

When you cease viewing "dems, libs and leftists" as enemies to be defeated.

Since your pundits threw the first punch, I'll leave it to YOU PERSONALLY RIGHT NOW to shirk the above, and declare those pundits wrong, and to state, in no uncertain terms, that the leftists/liberals/democrats whom your side has so wrongfully convicted in your partisan publishings and radio shows are in fact NOT enemies to be defeated, NOT evil people who want to destroy the country, and APOLOGIZE for the vapid, grotesque nature in which this paranoia is spread.

Until then, there will continuously be a vein of snide derision, and justly so; for how long do I have to be called the above, chased out of churches, communities, boards, by right wingers who say the above ****, vomitting it up from the bowels of Fox News?

It rests with you. You don't like your side being mocked and derided, then it starts with you.
 
Chomsky said:
The biggest problem I see, is we are being given two sets of facts depending on our sources. So of course, people are dug in. You're not going to go against what you believe!
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Fox News is the largest threat, next to politicized Christians, in this country, bar none.
 
gdgyva said:
It is becoming impossible to discuss anything on this site anymore.

If you disagree with anything that a progressive/liberal/democrat writes or thinks you are usually labelled a cultist or a Trumpet....they dont argue the value of your thought or idea....they attack you because you are ONE OF THEM

And yes, i am sure some times you are being attacked just as well....

I think it is a microcosm of America....

And something needs to happen to break the mold....the animosity and anger displayed is frightening

And i know we are more enlightened and better informed than the majority of other people.

I think we all care what happens to our country....and yes, we have differing views on how we should do things

I just see this coming to a really bad ending....and even though i love discussing politics, this is no longer fun...no longer educational...

We should be able to discuss differences as adults....but maybe that is just too much to ask now
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more.

Some call it karma. Some call it chickens coming home to roost.

After 8 years of Obama hate, FOXNews, Cambridge Analytica, Russian Propaganda (and the people more than willing to distribute it,) it only seems natural to give it like you got it.

They say payback's a bitch. But you're right. It sucks. They say you can't put toothpaste back in the tube. This Pandora Box of mean-spiritedness and division was opened by Newt Gengrich and Kenneth Starr a long time ago and it's only going to get worse. An eye for an eye until we all go blind.
 
Captain America said:
I couldn't agree more.

Some call it karma. Some call it chickens coming home to roost.

After 8 years of Obama hate, FOXNews, Cambridge Analytica, Russian Propaganda (and the people more than willing to distribute it,) it only seems natural to give it like you got it.

They say payback's a bitch. But you're right. It sucks. They say you can't put toothpaste back in the tube. This Pandora Box of mean-spiritedness and division was opened by Newt Gengrich and Kenneth Starr a long time ago and it's only going to get worse. An eye for an eye until we all go blind.
Click to expand...

Yep. They now reap what they sow. And, it's a beautiful thing to behold.
 
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