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We are not all cultists or Trumpets

To those conservatives who insist they aren't "cultists" or "Trumpists: maybe you should start criticizing Trump and Trumpists more often?

If all you do is generally keep your head down and only occasionally picking side-fights with people on the left, and you do this for years, you are complicit by omission. If you never speak against it, you show you don't actually have a problem with it. If you don't actually have a problem with it - if you voted Trump and will vote Trump again in 2020 - then what exactly are you trying to defend yourself with by claiming not to be a "Trumpist" or "cultist"?

Supporting Trump's policies and voting for Trump but demanding credit for not worshiping him is wanting to have your cake and eat it to.

Even if you really are going to vote for him despite claiming to dislike him, the very least you could do is join in arguing against the policies of his that suck. If all you're going to do is tangentially defend the Trumpists/cultist's in the thread by picking side-fights with the left-lean posters arguing with then, then you are a de facto Trumpist/cultist. Think about it. What exact difference is it supposed to make to someone opposed to Trump that you claim not to love Trump, if you're still going to do all the same things those who claim to love Trump are doing; indeed, are doing it with them?


What practical difference does your alleged lack of love for Trump make?
 
Mr Person said:
To those conservatives who insist they aren't "cultists" or "Trumpists: maybe you should start criticizing Trump and Trumpists more often?

If all you do is generally keep your head down and only occasionally picking side-fights with people on the left, and you do this for years, you are complicit by omission. If you never speak against it, you show you don't actually have a problem with it. If you don't actually have a problem with it - if you voted Trump and will vote Trump again in 2020 - then what exactly are you trying to defend yourself with by claiming not to be a "Trumpist" or "cultist"?

Supporting Trump's policies and voting for Trump but demanding credit for not worshiping him is wanting to have your cake and eat it to.

Even if you really are going to vote for him despite claiming to dislike him, the very least you could do is join in arguing against the policies of his that suck. If all you're going to do is tangentially defend the Trumpists/cultist's in the thread by picking side-fights with the left-lean posters arguing with then, then you are a de facto Trumpist/cultist. Think about it. What exact difference is it supposed to make to someone opposed to Trump that you claim not to love Trump, if you're still going to do all the same things those who claim to love Trump are doing; indeed, are doing it with them?


What practical difference does your alleged lack of love for Trump make?
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This is exactly the same attitude that the anti-Muslim racists use: "why don't the good Muslims speak out against their terrorist brothers? Because theyre all the same!"
 
gdgyva said:
It is becoming impossible to discuss anything on this site anymore.

If you disagree with anything that a progressive/liberal/democrat writes or thinks you are usually labelled a cultist or a Trumpet....they dont argue the value of your thought or idea....they attack you because you are ONE OF THEM

And yes, i am sure some times you are being attacked just as well....

I think it is a microcosm of America....

And something needs to happen to break the mold....the animosity and anger displayed is frightening

And i know we are more enlightened and better informed than the majority of other people.

I think we all care what happens to our country....and yes, we have differing views on how we should do things

I just see this coming to a really bad ending....and even though i love discussing politics, this is no longer fun...no longer educational...

We should be able to discuss differences as adults....but maybe that is just too much to ask now
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If I page through the thread, will I see that you called out rhetoric like this:

BlueElk said:
Because the "Left" Socialist/Communist/Democrats (Propose Unilateral Gun Confiscation) has been exposed, there is no longer reason to pretend.

For those in tune to he tactics of the "Left", nothing has changed. It is nice that to see another enlightened. There was never actual resolution based discussion with the "Left" as chaos and disruption is the goal. While the "Right" seeks resolution to an issue (like Los Angeles homeless), the "Left" views this as a success story, with the add bonus of see the "Right" upset. Miserable, is who they are, and want the "Right" to join them.



The Original Post has "triggered" the "Left". Look at response #2, all three sentences are either counterproductive, circular reasoning or nonsense.

#2 - "How do you discuss differences when the folks on the right use kellyanne's alternative facts? If I thought trump was innocent I would say so and take the crap from the left for saying so. I'm out for truth not party." ​
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How about this?

apdst said:
We're given the same set of facts, but the Liberals misinterpret the living **** out of them, even lie about what's being said. While that's nothing new, you all have kicked it into overdrive since Trump got elected.
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This?

Acadia said:
I think the Trump haters imagined things to be very different right about now. Trump would be found to have colluded with Russia and/or their Democrat 2020 race would be promising, and they could look forward to their "long, national nightmare" being over soon, if it wasn't over already. I think reality is getting very frustrating, and they take it out on others.
Agree it's getting unbearable.
Click to expand...





No?

Well, then maybe you really should take a good long look in the mirror. If you're OK with all the hateful and dishonest rhetoric coming from the people who are Trumpists, which deny being, and you never appear in threads criticizing anything Trump has said or done, what is the practical difference between you and a Trumpist?

All the people who consider themselves the site's "reasonable conservatives" spend their days here keeping their heads down and picking side-fights with left-lean posters. Never once do they of their own accord (that is without this kind of prodding) voice an objection to something Trump has said or done. Never once do they attack Trumpist posters the way they might left-lean posters. But they don't want to be considered Trumpists.

A phrase about wanting to have your cake and eat it too comes to mind.
 
Mr Person said:
To those conservatives who insist they aren't "cultists" or "Trumpists: maybe you should start criticizing Trump and Trumpists more often?

If all you do is generally keep your head down and only occasionally picking side-fights with people on the left, and you do this for years, you are complicit by omission. If you never speak against it, you show you don't actually have a problem with it. If you don't actually have a problem with it - if you voted Trump and will vote Trump again in 2020 - then what exactly are you trying to defend yourself with by claiming not to be a "Trumpist" or "cultist"?

Supporting Trump's policies and voting for Trump but demanding credit for not worshiping him is wanting to have your cake and eat it to.

Even if you really are going to vote for him despite claiming to dislike him, the very least you could do is join in arguing against the policies of his that suck. If all you're going to do is tangentially defend the Trumpists/cultist's in the thread by picking side-fights with the left-lean posters arguing with then, then you are a de facto Trumpist/cultist. Think about it. What exact difference is it supposed to make to someone opposed to Trump that you claim not to love Trump, if you're still going to do all the same things those who claim to love Trump are doing; indeed, are doing it with them?


What practical difference does your alleged lack of love for Trump make?
Click to expand...

We wind up having to spend all of our time defending Trump from the leftist nonsense. And, I have criticized Trump a few times and the left just jumps on it and believes I am a candidate for conversion therapy. Surely if I agree with them on one thing I must agree with them on everything.
 
gdgyva said:
I will side with the American people...

If they through a mandate decide that Trump must go, that is good enough for me

But until you ghave a REAL mandate...at least 60% of americans clamoring for his head...then you havent won your case

They made a good decision regarding Clinton (lets see if they can do the same with Trump)
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Clinton HAD the mandate, Trump does not. He won an arcane out of date electoral college system, but he did not win the popular vote.
 
Moderate Right said:
We wind up having to spend all of our time defending Trump from the leftist nonsense. And, I have criticized Trump a few times and the left just jumps on it and believes I am a candidate for conversion therapy. Surely if I agree with them on one thing I must agree with them on everything.
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Correction: We wind up having to spend all of our time defending Trump from his self-inflicted nonsense.
 
lurchadams said:
You are a great example of someone not interested in a spirited debate - you just tingle every time someone expresses concern about the trump administration's behavior.

Here, Nalu expressed his concern in a well thought-out and intelligent way regarding how trump and his spokespeople constantly lie to the American people and your response was to taunt the poster.

Your latest post helped me to reach a decision regarding how to save valuable time while browsing this forum.

Thanks for that.
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LOL, when I see "well thought out and intelligent" responses I reply in kind. I'd suggest your empathy of Nalu has more to do with your ideology than your desire for "well thought out and intelligent" dialog. A "spirited debate" requires logic and solid points on both sides. Mostly you guys response to any attempt at discussion is "Trump lied", "Trump is scum", or "impeach Trump", or the ultimate "Trump inherited that from Obama". I made the points that 1) all politicians lie, and; 2) Trump's lies are mostly trivial BS or minutia. I'd also suggest if certain past Presidents had a cottage industry as dedicated counting lies as Trump does, they'd have so humongous numbers as well.
 
Bullseye said:
LOL, when I see "well thought out and intelligent" responses I reply in kind. I'd suggest your empathy of Nalu has more to do with your ideology than your desire for "well thought out and intelligent" dialog. A "spirited debate" requires logic and solid points on both sides. Mostly you guys response to any attempt at discussion is "Trump lied", "Trump is scum", or "impeach Trump", or the ultimate "Trump inherited that from Obama". I made the points that 1) all politicians lie, and; 2) Trump's lies are mostly trivial BS or minutia. I'd also suggest if certain past Presidents had a cottage industry as dedicated counting lies as Trump does, they'd have so humongous numbers as well.
Click to expand...
Show some then.
 
Mr Person said:
To those conservatives who insist they aren't "cultists" or "Trumpists: maybe you should start criticizing Trump and Trumpists more often?

If all you do is generally keep your head down and only occasionally picking side-fights with people on the left, and you do this for years, you are complicit by omission. If you never speak against it, you show you don't actually have a problem with it. If you don't actually have a problem with it - if you voted Trump and will vote Trump again in 2020 - then what exactly are you trying to defend yourself with by claiming not to be a "Trumpist" or "cultist"?

Supporting Trump's policies and voting for Trump but demanding credit for not worshiping him is wanting to have your cake and eat it to.

Even if you really are going to vote for him despite claiming to dislike him, the very least you could do is join in arguing against the policies of his that suck. If all you're going to do is tangentially defend the Trumpists/cultist's in the thread by picking side-fights with the left-lean posters arguing with then, then you are a de facto Trumpist/cultist. Think about it. What exact difference is it supposed to make to someone opposed to Trump that you claim not to love Trump, if you're still going to do all the same things those who claim to love Trump are doing; indeed, are doing it with them?


What practical difference does your alleged lack of love for Trump make?
Click to expand...

My favorite are the ones who insist that they do not like Trump but defend him at every turn.
 
Nalu said:
I never insulted you. Hell, I never even insulted Trump. Stop crying and look up words so you can learn how to use them.
Click to expand...
Are you ****ting me? You can't possibly be that clueless. Take a look at this post. "Stop crying and look up the words so you can learn how to use them"? Insulting my intelligence? Not the only post you've pulled that **** in.
 
gdgyva said:
Are you not able to tune out those you disagree with?

We have ignore buttons on this site for a reason

I suggest people start using them much more frequently.....

It may make life much more palatable
Click to expand...

Did you see me respond to that partisan hateful rhetoric? No, I did not respond.
But only use that hateful response to answer your question in the OP.
 
Bullseye said:
Deplorables are subject to different rules. :roll:
Click to expand...

I doubt they ever see themselves the way they really are... I've never seen a group that projects their own issues onto others as today's "liberals".
 
trixare4kids said:
I doubt they ever see themselves the way they really are... I've never seen a group that projects their own issues onto others as today's "liberals".
Click to expand...

That perfectly describes the snowflake Right. I hope Trump found his safe space yesterday.
 
Bullseye said:
Are you ****ting me? You can't possibly be that clueless. Take a look at this post. "Stop crying and look up the words so you can learn how to use them"? Insulting my intelligence? Not the only post you've pulled that **** in.
Click to expand...

I tried to have a reasoned conversation with you. Other posters warned me that that is impossible. You're using words in ways that don't correlate to their definitions. If that's an insult to your intelligence, perhaps you have a guilty conscience. I think it's more likely that you're using language inaccuracy as a rhetorical device to exaggerate your points and mischaracterize my posts, but if it's a matter of intelligence instead, have it your way.
 
Nalu said:
I tried to have a reasoned conversation with you. Other posters warned me that that is impossible. You're using words in ways that don't correlate to their definitions. If that's an insult to your intelligence, perhaps you have a guilty conscience. I think it's more likely that you're using language inaccuracy as a rhetorical device to exaggerate your points and mischaracterize my posts, but if it's a matter of intelligence instead, have it your way.
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Sorry, from early on I got the impression that your definition of "reasoned conversation meant "agree with me, or else".
 
Nalu said:
I tried to have a reasoned conversation with you. Other posters warned me that that is impossible. You're using words in ways that don't correlate to their definitions. If that's an insult to your intelligence, perhaps you have a guilty conscience. I think it's more likely that you're using language inaccuracy as a rhetorical device to exaggerate your points and mischaracterize my posts, but if it's a matter of intelligence instead, have it your way.
Click to expand...

Since you are new here, I'll give you some friendly advice. You might want to question the motivations of the poster who warned you about this particular poster earlier in this thread.

That said, what's your definition of a reasoned conversation?
 
Moderate Right said:
We wind up having to spend all of our time defending Trump from the leftist nonsense. And, I have criticized Trump a few times and the left just jumps on it and believes I am a candidate for conversion therapy. Surely if I agree with them on one thing I must agree with them on everything.
Click to expand...

We've all criticized Trump. I know in fact, I've authored at least a dozen posts where I said he acts juvenile. I've said many times that he has a big mouth and it will be to his own detriment instead of conduct befitting a president. Many who can't stand Trump simply won't acknowledge the times we've said we wish he had better character. They're liars.
Unless you denounce him and say you won't vote for him again, what we've said about him doesn't count. It's as simple as that. His haters will never acknowledge facts.
 
trixare4kids said:
Since you are new here, I'll give you some friendly advice. You might want to question the motivations of the poster who warned you about this particular poster earlier in this thread.

That said, what's your definition of a reasoned conversation?
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Their motivation was likely being charitable in advising him not to waste his time.
 
Nalu said:
I agree with the sentiment. I have a lot of foreign friends and colleagues. They are appalled by the way we talk to each other. Some of our non-American friends on this site have expressed the same thing. I sometimes mess up in the heat of the moment, but speaking for no one but myself, it isn't hate. It's not even anger (usually). It's passion. I love this country as much as anyone else does, but I cannot tolerate Trump. I can't tolerate people supporting him. I realize how terrible that sounds, but this is where we are. Trump is exploiting the worst parts of us, our society, our culture, our history, our fears.

I think it's important to acknowledge and to remember that the extremes of both ends of the political spectrum (and some in between) do what you described. Not because that makes anything better. In fact, it's worse. But because we can't consider each other enemies. We're at war with each other. People are already getting hurt. This is a goddamn nightmare that just won't end.
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The fact that you "can't tolerate people supporting him" is not the problem of those who do support this president.
Have you ever asked yourself as to why they might support his policies? I sure don't support his bedside manner, but I do support the direction he has taken the country. Trump, though not a likable person, is not exploiting the worst parts of us... The divisive, resisting Democrats are though. Look at the fear you have spread with this post. How does the leader of the best economy in the last fifty years exploit our society, our culture, our history, our fears? The man is simply trying to do what he promised his base, fulfill his campaign promises to those who elected him. Oh the horrors! The "God damn nightmare."

You probably need to take off the partisan blinders. I'm not at war with you. You're at war with yourself because you can't admit or accept that 69 million people elected a president that they like and you detest. How dare their votes count for someone you won't accept. Boo hoo for you...I have no sympathy for you.

Tell your GD party to get off their ass and find someone who can beat him at the polls. Stop the whining.
 
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trixare4kids said:
The fact that you "can't tolerate people supporting him" is not the problem of those who do support this president.
Have you ever asked yourself as to why they might support his policies? I sure don't support his bedside manner, but I do support the direction he has taken the country. Trump, though not a likable person, is not exploiting the worst parts of us... The divisive, resisting Democrats are though. Look at the fear you have spread with this post. How does the leader of the best economy in the last fifty years exploit our society, our culture, our history, our fears? The man is simply trying to do what he promised his base, fulfill his campaign promises to those who elected him. Oh the horrors! The "God damn nightmare."

You probably need to take off the partisan blinders. I'm not at war with you. You're at war with yourself because you can't admit or accept that 69 million people elected a president that they like and you detest. How dare their votes count for someone you won't accept. Boo hoo for you...I have no sympathy for you.

Tell your GD party to get off their ass and find someone who can beat him at the polls. Stop the whining.
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Supporting Trump...hmmm, isn't that what the OP is trying to say people are not doing?

So, we are correct to call them cultists and trumpers. Thx.
 
GDViking said:
His office will be square with bars, and I doubt he will be out by 2025.

Of course with his health, it is probable it will be much sooner...
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Bush II will finally face consequences for his war crimes?

Excellent.

:)
 
lurchadams said:
You are a great example of someone not interested in a spirited debate - you just tingle every time someone expresses concern about the trump administration's behavior.

Here, Nalu expressed his concern in a well thought-out and intelligent way regarding how trump and his spokespeople constantly lie to the American people and your response was to taunt the poster.

Your latest post helped me to reach a decision regarding how to save valuable time while browsing this forum.

Thanks for that.
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Spirited debate = Endlessly indulging conspiracy theorists

Echo chambers = The only way to go
 
gdgyva said:
imo in the five years i have been here, the site has gotten angrier....some posters fly off the handle at the slightest things

maybe it is just my impression...that is very possible....hell i have been wrong about a **** load of things in my life...this could definitely be one of them

we have lost a few of the really rational sane minds that i loved in the last couple of years....and i miss them dearly

and it does seem our participants are getting younger....not saying that is a bad thing....we need new blood and a new perspective on things once in a while....

again...just my perspective of things
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3 years of Democrat Party pitchfork fever have driven many away I'm sure.

"Really rational sane minds" are nearly always part of a tiny minority, however.
 
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