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Thread: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

  1. #541
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    Re: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    sorry...maybe that was directed at a lot of people but quoted to you specifically

    and no, you dont come off that way...

    apologize if you took it that way....
    Nah, I didn't take it that way. I just wanted to clarify your intention because assumptions can create friction, especially in a forum like this.

    For what it's worth, if one can filter the unavoidable garbage being posted, this is a good thread with a good premise and good reasons for consideration.

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    Re: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    Thanks for divulging the Anti-Trump cult oath of allegiance.
    You are a great example of someone not interested in a spirited debate - you just tingle every time someone expresses concern about the trump administration's behavior.

    Here, Nalu expressed his concern in a well thought-out and intelligent way regarding how trump and his spokespeople constantly lie to the American people and your response was to taunt the poster.

    Your latest post helped me to reach a decision regarding how to save valuable time while browsing this forum.

    Thanks for that.
    "Trump does not give a <expletive> about Ukraine the president’s concern with the country stems only from political self-interest." - Gordon Sondland

  3. #543
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    Re: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalu View Post
    I don't have a frame of reference for this because I'm new to DP. You said that the atmosphere here has become worse. When did that start?

    I wonder because I'm more likely to think that people just act trashy on the internet (one of its downfalls since the very first public message boards decades ago). If you're saying, though, that people used to behave better and now behave worse, then something else has changed.
    imo in the five years i have been here, the site has gotten angrier....some posters fly off the handle at the slightest things

    maybe it is just my impression...that is very possible....hell i have been wrong about a **** load of things in my life...this could definitely be one of them

    we have lost a few of the really rational sane minds that i loved in the last couple of years....and i miss them dearly

    and it does seem our participants are getting younger....not saying that is a bad thing....we need new blood and a new perspective on things once in a while....

    again...just my perspective of things
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #544
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    Re: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by Luckyone View Post
    I have one question to this post.

    The president vowed when he took office to protect the Constitution and our laws. Shouldn't he be the first one trying to find the truth? Why is he blocking the truth from coming out?
    A person who has no relationship with the truth and with honesty can't really, in my opinion, make a vow in the first place. Wedding vows, oath of office vows, handshakes can only mean something when the people entering into them mean them. We have a president who can't do that, which really makes the system inoperable, which leads us to where we are now.

  5. #545
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    Re: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalu View Post
    I know it's already been said a million times, but the evidence for impeachment/removal from office will be presented to the public during the Senate trial. In fact, the House is already making some of it public and will begin shifting more of the process into the public view. I realize we all want instant gratification, but we're going through the normal course of things.

    If we didn't have a relentless barrage of media, fewer people would be hyperventilating for a third of their waking hours. If the 6:00 news anchor, during her 30-minute, once daily broadcast, said, "In Washington news today, the House of Representatives continued its inquiry into actions of the Trump administration as it weighs whether or not to draft potential articles of impeachment. Now we go to Christy Correspondent who's sampling funnel cakes at this year's state fair," then this wouldn't seem like such a nuclear meltdown site to so many people.
    because i cant remember this EVER being done this way

    the house usually has a report from someone else (ie Mueller) who did the investigation, and then they finalize it
    they arent the investigating body....

    now again....there may have been times this has been done before...but i dont remember them, and especially for something as major as an impeachment case
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    imo in the five years i have been here, the site has gotten angrier....some posters fly off the handle at the slightest things

    maybe it is just my impression...that is very possible....hell i have been wrong about a **** load of things in my life...this could definitely be one of them

    we have lost a few of the really rational sane minds that i loved in the last couple of years....and i miss them dearly

    and it does seem our participants are getting younger....not saying that is a bad thing....we need new blood and a new perspective on things once in a while....

    again...just my perspective of things

    I have slowed down on posting here simply because of the problems you have expressed, do I think exist. I mostly lurk now. I think a lot of people just don't want to go round and round repeating themselves. It gets old. That and the multi same subject thread spam. Some of these guys are looking to be the next SirSpamsAlot. It gets annoying looking at 5 threads for the same subject, not mention confusing.
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  7. #547
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    Re: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    imo in the five years i have been here, the site has gotten angrier....some posters fly off the handle at the slightest things

    maybe it is just my impression...that is very possible....hell i have been wrong about a **** load of things in my life...this could definitely be one of them

    we have lost a few of the really rational sane minds that i loved in the last couple of years....and i miss them dearly

    and it does seem our participants are getting younger....not saying that is a bad thing....we need new blood and a new perspective on things once in a while....

    again...just my perspective of things
    I can't speak to DP, but I sense what you're describing in the larger society. I seem to be younger than most DP members, but most of my political disagreements don't seem to be generational in nature. (Except for civil rights. My disagreements over civil rights are almost always generational.)

    What strikes me the most about the past several years is not what the average person thinks but what people I've known my entire life think. More accurately, how the behavior of people I've known my entire life has changed. For example, some of my uncles came to my college graduation almost 15 years ago. It was a liberal university in a city internationally known as liberal. More of my friends than not were liberal. My uncles were conservative. We all spent a week together celebrating, getting drunk, playing cards, sharing meals, hiking, river rafting, talking, and listening. I can't remember a single moment of political discomfort. I'm less liberal now than I was then (in measurable ways), but they're about as conservative as I think they always have been. So we've moved closer together on the political spectrum, but we agree less. That is obviously a counterintuitive proposition.

    Of course, this is a personal anecdote, so it's far from objective, but I don't quite recognize my uncles anymore. I find them saying the exact same things as the others sometimes (and as brothers, they have never all agreed on anything ever). I find them less reasoned and less persuasive than they used to be. I find them to be more dismissive of my ideas than they used to be, even when I was less moderate than I am now. To be fair, it could be me. I think I'm pretty realistic in my self perception, but aren't we all? My point in all of this is that I think our differences, on DP and in the real world, have been weaponized against us. I think they've been sharpened, encouraged, and exaggerated. I think we've been carefully and intentionally manipulated to get along less, to see disagreements in more dire terms than the exact same disagreements 15 or 20 years ago. Why I think that's happened is for another post, but that might speak to the degradation of the atmosphere that you're describing.

  8. #548
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    Re: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalu View Post
    Nah, I didn't take it that way. I just wanted to clarify your intention because assumptions can create friction, especially in a forum like this.

    For what it's worth, if one can filter the unavoidable garbage being posted, this is a good thread with a good premise and good reasons for consideration.
    I think so too, but I'm usually every bit as reluctant to participate around the "unavoidable garbage"...which rather begs the question of why it's unavoidable, sigh.

  9. #549
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    Re: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I think so too, but I'm usually every bit as reluctant to participate around the "unavoidable garbage"...which rather begs the question of why it's unavoidable, sigh.
    The correct answer to that question would be worth its weight in gold. I've been discussing this with a lot of people this week. On the eighth day, when god created the internet, she created internet trolls too. I think we can all agree that at least that much garbage is unavoidable. What elicits the sigh from me are the people who aren't trolls. People who by any other measure except politics would be considered reasonable, thoughtful, and kind. Why are they going banana sauce on the internet and vandalizing campaign signs in their neighbor's yard? I have a lot of ideas about all of it and have posted some of them here and there. Despite my best efforts to understand the problem, I'm disappointed to admit that I don't know the solution.

  10. #550
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    Re: We are not all cultists or Trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalu View Post
    I can't speak to DP, but I sense what you're describing in the larger society. I seem to be younger than most DP members, but most of my political disagreements don't seem to be generational in nature. (Except for civil rights. My disagreements over civil rights are almost always generational.)

    What strikes me the most about the past several years is not what the average person thinks but what people I've known my entire life think. More accurately, how the behavior of people I've known my entire life has changed. For example, some of my uncles came to my college graduation almost 15 years ago. It was a liberal university in a city internationally known as liberal. More of my friends than not were liberal. My uncles were conservative. We all spent a week together celebrating, getting drunk, playing cards, sharing meals, hiking, river rafting, talking, and listening. I can't remember a single moment of political discomfort. I'm less liberal now than I was then (in measurable ways), but they're about as conservative as I think they always have been. So we've moved closer together on the political spectrum, but we agree less. That is obviously a counterintuitive proposition.

    Of course, this is a personal anecdote, so it's far from objective, but I don't quite recognize my uncles anymore. I find them saying the exact same things as the others sometimes (and as brothers, they have never all agreed on anything ever). I find them less reasoned and less persuasive than they used to be. I find them to be more dismissive of my ideas than they used to be, even when I was less moderate than I am now. To be fair, it could be me. I think I'm pretty realistic in my self perception, but aren't we all? My point in all of this is that I think our differences, on DP and in the real world, have been weaponized against us. I think they've been sharpened, encouraged, and exaggerated. I think we've been carefully and intentionally manipulated to get along less, to see disagreements in more dire terms than the exact same disagreements 15 or 20 years ago. Why I think that's happened is for another post, but that might speak to the degradation of the atmosphere that you're describing.
    15-20, maybe, 25 years ago, I was the Right Winger at the table. Not that I was exactly Far Right but, by being young, healthy, white, male and straight the world lay in front of me. So, my Libertarian-like beliefs were basically untempered by any of the bitter tastes of actual reality. Looking back now, I see how foolish I was: cocky, self-congratulatory and assured in the premise, "yeah, I built that."

    Seeing the world for what it is: society as more like an ocean than an aquarium, I still hold many of those same thoughts. Primary among them: if you don't do it yourself, no one else will do it for you unless you buy the service. But, along with that came a few ugly truths, chief among them: the Hippocratic oath in the US is not to help the sickest among us first, but to serve the richest and do your best to ignore those who cannot afford healthcare.

    Anyway, I'm not the Right Wing guy anymore. But, that could just be because I never watched Fox News and hate talk radio.
    If you want something bad enough, just take it.

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