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High Crimes And Misdemeanors

Outlook said:
Trump broke the law of being Trump. He broke the law of having a different opinion and different demeanor than the other cookie cutter politicians.
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I mean also the obstruction of justice, campaign finance violations, bank fraud..
 
Deuce said:
I mean also the obstruction of justice, campaign finance violations, bank fraud..
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LOL, tell me about it when there has been an arrest and conviction. I forgot the left doesn’t care about the rule of law, just accusations that sways public opinion. Destroy with the help of the media strategy.
 
Moderate Right said:
From my understanding a crime means you have broken the law. I would say that a high crime means you have broken a very serious law. If you commit a misdemeanor it also means you have broken the law. What laws has Trump actually broken? What crime has he been convicted of?
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I'm not sure that the guy who apparently thinks being a Democrat is more of a crime than raping children is arguing in good faith about criminal activity folks.
 
Moderate Right said:
From my understanding a crime means you have broken the law. I would say that a high crime means you have broken a very serious law. If you commit a misdemeanor it also means you have broken the law. What laws has Trump actually broken? What crime has he been convicted of?
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A high crime isn't a crime that requires a violation of statutory law ...but rather it's a violation of the public trust and/or abuse of office. By that measure Trump should've been impeached two years ago.
 
trixare4kids said:
Not enough sufficient evidence that the president committed a HIGH crime worthy of an impeachment conviction.

We Shouldn't Impeach Trump On the Basis of Flawed Legal Theory


About the author:
Robert Ray is a partner at Thompson & Knight LLP and, as independent counsel from 1999 to 2002, issued the final report in the Whitewater investigation.
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So now being an accessory to murder is not a crime? Ukrainians died waiting for the weapons that Trump held up and he is partially responsible for those deaths. This is why the power of the Presidency must be so carefully monitored. This was not just another Trump failure like "Trump Steaks". People die when a President is only looking out for himself. Those deaths are on all our hands but more so with Trumpists like you who are directly enabling his behavior. Does having blood on your hands bother you? I know it doesn't bother Trump a bit. I just wonder if you all are like that.

Trump froze military aid — as Ukrainian soldiers perished in battle - Los Angeles Times
 
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iguanaman said:
So now being an accessory to murder is not a crime? Ukrainians died waiting for the weapons that Trump held up and he is partially responsible for those deaths. This is why the power of the Presidency must be so carefully monitored. This was not just another Trump failure like "Trump Steaks". People die when a President is only looking out for himself. Those deaths are on all our hands but more so with Trumpists like you who are directly enabling his behavior. Does having blood on your hands bother you? I know it doesn't bother Trump a bit.

Trump froze military aid — as Ukrainian soldiers perished in battle - Los Angeles Times
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You're muddying the waters. Let's stick to impeachable HIGH crimes.
My source says it's mostly all bun, no meat and not enough evidence that would constitute an impeachable HIGH crime, and not to be redundant but allow me to quote what Alexander Hamilton said constitutes a HIGH crime. Hamilton provided the answer in the Federalist papers: only those offenses within Congress’s appropriate jurisdiction that constitute “the abuse or violation of some public trust.”
 
trixare4kids said:
Clinton wasn't impeached for a blowjob. :lol:

I think the author's legal opinion is highly credible. ymmv
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I wasn't impressed. The distinction between what is a quid pro quo but not explicit, versus Trump: THIS IS A QUID PRO QUO!, isn't meaningful. It's a form over substance argument. If the words from POTUS imply a qpq, and the actions of his people on the ground make that qpq explicit, and Ukraine tells us they understood the qpq, that's what it is. No need for Trump to do the equivalent of talk into a mic and specifically admit to a crime.

Beyond that the article goes off the rails right at the jump.

What constitutes a “high” crime? Alexander Hamilton provided the answer in the Federalist papers: only those offenses within Congress’s appropriate jurisdiction that constitute “the abuse or violation of some public trust.”
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then:

To ignore the requirement of proving that a crime was committed is to sidestep the constitutional design as well as the lessons of history. A well-founded article of impeachment therefore must allege both that a crime has been committed and that such crime constitutes an abuse of the President’s office.
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But neither Hamilton or the historical context of that term requires a "crime" as we understand and use the term. It isn't even good sleight of hand, to quote a founder, then directly contradict him. If Hamilton meant, "a CRIMINAL abuse or violation of some public trust" we can assume someone as articulate as Hamilton would have said so, directly, and he pointedly did not.

And then based on this false premise, he determines the qpq isn't "criminal" THEREFORE no impeachment... Q.E.D.

I did get a laugh out of it though:

An investigation into the origins of the probe into Russia’s 2016 election meddling, including any Ukrainian matters relating to it, is under way. It is being handled through appropriate channels and with built-in independence by a career prosecutor, John Durham, the U.S. Attorney in Connecticut, and presumably outside of political interference at Main Justice in Washington.
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:2rofll:
 
GDViking said:
That is not what high crimes and misdemeanors means.

It can mean something as slight as actions unbecoming a president.

Please try and say with a straight face that trump hasn't crossed that line.
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Indeed, 'high' here doesn't mean 'worse,' it means 'crimes of high office', something only a politician can do by default.

If he just say used a fraudulent 'charity' to cheat donors out of money and divert it to his personal use, that would just be a regular crime and the state where it happened could convict him of that, lol.

Oh, wait...
 
trixare4kids said:
You're muddying the waters. Let's stick to impeachable HIGH crimes.
My source says it's mostly all bun, no meat and not enough evidence that would constitute an impeachable HIGH crime, and not to be redundant but allow me to quote what Alexander Hamilton said constitutes a HIGH crime. Hamilton provided the answer in the Federalist papers: only those offenses within Congress’s appropriate jurisdiction that constitute “the abuse or violation of some public trust.”
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Hmm I just told you that Trumps delay of the weapons to Ukraine cost human lives and all you can say is "Alexander Hamilton"? Bribery is specifically mentioned as grounds for impeachment in the Constitution. Now tell me how you like having blood on your hands?
 
It’s a political action therefore a political response is appropriate.









Get Over It!
 
Moderate Right said:
From my understanding a crime means you have broken the law. I would say that a high crime means you have broken a very serious law. If you commit a misdemeanor it also means you have broken the law. What laws has Trump actually broken? What crime has he been convicted of?
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Maybe you should listen to your false God's puppet Lindsay Graham.

 
trixare4kids said:
You're muddying the waters. Let's stick to impeachable HIGH crimes.
My source says it's mostly all bun, no meat and not enough evidence that would constitute an impeachable HIGH crime, and not to be redundant but allow me to quote what Alexander Hamilton said constitutes a HIGH crime. Hamilton provided the answer in the Federalist papers: only those offenses within Congress’s appropriate jurisdiction that constitute “the abuse or violation of some public trust.”
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Such as extorting a foreign government to manufacture a phony investigation to attempt to discredit a political opponent???


I that kinda breach of public trust???
 
Moderate Right said:
From my understanding a crime means you have broken the law. I would say that a high crime means you have broken a very serious law. If you commit a misdemeanor it also means you have broken the law. What laws has Trump actually broken? What crime has he been convicted of?
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The phrase has been illuminated by essay 65 of the federalist papers ( Hamilton ).


In a nut shell, they are anything Congress deems they are, including acts which are illegal, but not limited to.

For example, there is no explicit law against "conduct unbecoming", or "abuse of power", "dereliction" "threat to national security" all of which which could be articles of impeachment.

That being said, he's already listed as co-conspirator on a felony, and there are numerous examples of obstruction, and horse trading foreign policy in order to improvre one's reelection chances is an FEC felony, as well.
 
Deuce said:
Out of curiosity I just googled the nine items listed in Nixon's article of impeachment number 1... trump is 9 for 9.

It's cute that you ask what crime "has he been convicted of" when you ****in well know he can't be convicted of a crime while in office. Did you think none of us would figure out that you invented an impossible goalpost?
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What crimes has Trump broken? If you can't answer the question just say you can't answer the question.
 
Superfly said:
Why are you even here? You clearly have no intention of engaging in intelligent discourse with the whole “what crime has he committed” garbage, so why are you even here? Are you being paid to be here? If we top it, will you leave?
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What crimes has Trump broken? If you can't answer the question just say you can't answer the question.
 
Helix said:
i hope that he didn't do something really bad like lie about a blow job.
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Just to be fair, lying under oath is a crime and so is obstruction of justice.
 
HumblePi said:
There's been no convictions of anyone yet. There will be articles of impeachment and each article listed, such as abuse of power. Trump threatened to withhold aid from Ukraine if its Prime Minister did not investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son. Using taxpayer dollars to manipulate an important ally against Russia and attack a political rival is a clear abuse of presidential power. Furthermore, Trump's administration tried to conceal the whistleblower complaint that brought this corruption to light and label the civil servant who filed it as partisan. The White House has also obstructed justice by refusing to cooperate with this investigation and by prohibiting witnesses to appear to testify.
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What crimes has Trump broken? If you can't answer the question just say you can't answer the question. The most I got from your post is obstruction of justice.
 
Moderate Right said:
What crimes has Trump broken? If you can't answer the question just say you can't answer the question. The most I got from your post is obstruction of justice.
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Bribery and extortion
 
GDViking said:
That is not what high crimes and misdemeanors means.

It can mean something as slight as actions unbecoming a president.

Please try and say with a straight face that trump hasn't crossed that line.

Above and beyond that I have listed many of trumps crimes that unless pardoned he will do time for.

In comparison he makes Nixon look like a saint...
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There is a reason why our founding fathers set a very high bar for impeaching a president so that a partisan party couldn't use a kangaroo court to remove a president from office.
 
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