• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W:79] Are Trump's problems due to haters or Trump's own actions?

I

independentusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
14,607
Reaction score
9,305
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I have often on this message board and on the talking head shows saying all of trump's problems are due to the "Trump Haters". I question that and believe that most of his problems are due to trump's own actions. I think revving up his audience by asking the Russian's to find Hillary's emails was not a good start, especially after the Wikileak dump's of her emails. Then having his people meet with those same Russians hundreds of times and then lying about it is what really sparked the Mueller report along with the firing of Comey and then telling the world he had done it to end the Russian interference investigation on TV. His meeting with Russians in the White House and telling them he had ended the probe was also not a good thing. I could go on, but the Muller investigation and report was begun due to trump's own actions, not by Trump haters. Now we have the problem caused by his actions with Ukraine. Why he would do such a stupid thing is beyond me. It screams of being the same thing as Watergate. All it needed was to have the telephone call being taped and it would have been identical. A president who was not universally liked but seemed to be heading to another term does something illegal to aid in his next campaign. And like every other "secret" in Washington, it is outed. And instead of just saying I did something wrong, but did not know it was so, he and the rest started the familiar and never working "cover up". Another stupid action by Trump and his followers. And who do his followers blame for Ukraine and all of the other stupid actions by Trump, not Trump. They blame the infamous "Trump haters". Trump should loo into the mirror if he wants too see who has caused most of his problems.
 
independentusa said:
I have often on this message board and on the talking head shows saying all of trump's problems are due to the "Trump Haters". I question that and believe that most of his problems are due to trump's own actions. I think revving up his audience by asking the Russian's to find Hillary's emails was not a good start, especially after the Wikileak dump's of her emails. Then having his people meet with those same Russians hundreds of times and then lying about it is what really sparked the Mueller report along with the firing of Comey and then telling the world he had done it to end the Russian interference investigation on TV. His meeting with Russians in the White House and telling them he had ended the probe was also not a good thing. I could go on, but the Muller investigation and report was begun due to trump's own actions, not by Trump haters. Now we have the problem caused by his actions with Ukraine. Why he would do such a stupid thing is beyond me. It screams of being the same thing as Watergate. All it needed was to have the telephone call being taped and it would have been identical. A president who was not universally liked but seemed to be heading to another term does something illegal to aid in his next campaign. And like every other "secret" in Washington, it is outed. And instead of just saying I did something wrong, but did not know it was so, he and the rest started the familiar and never working "cover up". Another stupid action by Trump and his followers. And who do his followers blame for Ukraine and all of the other stupid actions by Trump, not Trump. They blame the infamous "Trump haters". Trump should loo into the mirror if he wants too see who has caused most of his problems.
Click to expand...

I didn't read you post but I will respond to your thread title. Trump creates a lot of his own problems but the left is coming out of the woodwork to twist and turn and manufacture anything and everything they can to make Trump look bad. So, the answer to your thread title is both.
 
Trump's problems are due to Trump's words and actions. He is completely responsible for his own sorry public image.
 
Both. Trump makes many stupid mistakes and there is a strong resistance to having the normal swampy ways of DC's "static" (often referred to as the "deep state") power disrupted.
 
independentusa said:
I have often on this message board and on the talking head shows saying all of trump's problems are due to the "Trump Haters". I question that and believe that most of his problems are due to trump's own actions. I think revving up his audience by asking the Russian's to find Hillary's emails was not a good start, especially after the Wikileak dump's of her emails. Then having his people meet with those same Russians hundreds of times and then lying about it is what really sparked the Mueller report along with the firing of Comey and then telling the world he had done it to end the Russian interference investigation on TV. His meeting with Russians in the White House and telling them he had ended the probe was also not a good thing. I could go on, but the Muller investigation and report was begun due to trump's own actions, not by Trump haters. Now we have the problem caused by his actions with Ukraine. Why he would do such a stupid thing is beyond me. It screams of being the same thing as Watergate. All it needed was to have the telephone call being taped and it would have been identical. A president who was not universally liked but seemed to be heading to another term does something illegal to aid in his next campaign. And like every other "secret" in Washington, it is outed. And instead of just saying I did something wrong, but did not know it was so, he and the rest started the familiar and never working "cover up". Another stupid action by Trump and his followers. And who do his followers blame for Ukraine and all of the other stupid actions by Trump, not Trump. They blame the infamous "Trump haters". Trump should loo into the mirror if he wants too see who has caused most of his problems.
Click to expand...

His problems are getting rid of americans problems. Hes doing all right.

"Sure, there’s plenty of collusion. But hubris is the more fitting word. This is a story about what happens when those we trust to be the guardians of our system anoint themselves the masters of our system. For our own good, of course.

As for collusion, that word we’ve heard so incessantly from pundits and leaky government officials, Special Counsel Robert Mueller has rendered his judgment that there was none—at least, not the collusion he was hunting for. There really was a collusion plot, though. And it really did target our election system. It absolutely sought to usurp our capacity for self-determination. It was just not the collusion you’ve been told about. It was not “Donald Trump’s collusion with Russia.”


Here is the real collusion scheme: in 2016, the incumbent Democratic administration of President Barack Obama put the awesome powers of the United States government’s law-enforcement and intelligence apparatus in the service of the Hillary Rodham Clinton presidential campaign, the Democratic party, and the progressive Beltway establishment. This scheme had two parts: Plan A, the objective; and Plan B, a fail-safe strategy in case Plan A imploded—which all the smartest people were supremely confident would never, ever happen … which is why you could bet the ranch that it would.


Plan A was to get Mrs. Clinton elected president of the United States. This required exonerating her, at least ostensibly, from well-founded allegations that were both felonious and politically disqualifying.


Plan B was the insurance policy: An investigation that Donald Trump, in the highly unlikely event he were elected, would be powerless to shut down. An investigation that would simultaneously monitor and taint him. An investigation that internalized Clinton campaign–generated opposition research, limning Trump and his campaign as complicit in Russian espionage. An investigation that would hunt for a crime under the guise of counterintelligence, build an impeachment case under the guise of hunting for a crime, and seek to make Trump un-re-electable under the guise of building an impeachment case."--Ball of Collusion
 
If I rob a bank and people who hate me call the cops on me, it's entirely possible that they wouldn't have called the cops on me if they didn't hate me. But none of that changes the central problem of me having robbed the bank in the first place, and I doubt it would get me a more lenient prison sentence.
 
The problem? Donald Trump flashes his corruption and bigotry right in our faces and dares us to do anything about it.

November 2020 can't come soon enough.
 
Cardinal said:
If I rob a bank and people who hate me call the cops on me, it's entirely possible that they wouldn't have called the cops on me if they didn't hate me. But none of that changes the central problem of me having robbed the bank in the first place, and I doubt it would get me a more lenient prison sentence.
Click to expand...

The robbers(democrats and I bet some establishment republicans) hate the cops(trump) that pulled the robbers(democrats) out of the bank(american taxpayer). The people(americans) patronizing the bank dont care so much that the cops are sweaty. The confederate (deep state) that sent phony alarms(media) to distract the cops receive a kickback. The last group voices great concern the cops are sweaty.
 
akyron said:
The robbers(democrats and I bet some establishment republicans) hate the cops(trump) that pulled the robbers(democrats) out of the bank(american taxpayer). The people(americans) patronizing the bank dont care so much that the cops are sweaty. The confederate (deep state) that sent phony alarms(media) to distract the cops receive a kickback. The last group voices great concern the cops are sweaty.
Click to expand...

Yes, the bank robbers are the cops and the cops are the bank robbers. Also, dieting makes you gain weight, abstinence makes babies, and not putting money in my bank account makes my bank account bigger.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Both. Trump makes many stupid mistakes and there is a strong resistance to having the normal swampy ways of DC's "static" (often referred to as the "deep state") power disrupted.
Click to expand...
DC has been a swamp for a very long time, no doubt, and Trump has done nothing at all to make it any better.

* Only conspiracists use the ridiculous term “deep state”.
 
Cardinal said:
Yes, the bank robbers are the cops and the cops are the bank robbers..
Click to expand...

Heh. Trying to convince the beaten wife that THIS time you will change. Come back and vote for us baby. THIS time it will be great!
 
akyron said:
Heh. Trying to convince the beaten wife that THIS time you will change. Come back and vote for us baby. THIS time it will be great!
Click to expand...

The wife is the husband and the baby is the gorilla.
 
akyron said:
His problems are getting rid of americans problems. Hes doing all right.

"Sure, there’s plenty of collusion. But hubris is the more fitting word. This is a story about what happens when those we trust to be the guardians of our system anoint themselves the masters of our system. For our own good, of course.

As for collusion, that word we’ve heard so incessantly from pundits and leaky government officials, Special Counsel Robert Mueller has rendered his judgment that there was none—at least, not the collusion he was hunting for. There really was a collusion plot, though. And it really did target our election system. It absolutely sought to usurp our capacity for self-determination. It was just not the collusion you’ve been told about. It was not “Donald Trump’s collusion with Russia.”


Here is the real collusion scheme: in 2016, the incumbent Democratic administration of President Barack Obama put the awesome powers of the United States government’s law-enforcement and intelligence apparatus in the service of the Hillary Rodham Clinton presidential campaign, the Democratic party, and the progressive Beltway establishment. This scheme had two parts: Plan A, the objective; and Plan B, a fail-safe strategy in case Plan A imploded—which all the smartest people were supremely confident would never, ever happen … which is why you could bet the ranch that it would.


Plan A was to get Mrs. Clinton elected president of the United States. This required exonerating her, at least ostensibly, from well-founded allegations that were both felonious and politically disqualifying.


Plan B was the insurance policy: An investigation that Donald Trump, in the highly unlikely event he were elected, would be powerless to shut down. An investigation that would simultaneously monitor and taint him. An investigation that internalized Clinton campaign–generated opposition research, limning Trump and his campaign as complicit in Russian espionage. An investigation that would hunt for a crime under the guise of counterintelligence, build an impeachment case under the guise of hunting for a crime, and seek to make Trump un-re-electable under the guise of building an impeachment case."--Ball of Collusion
Click to expand...
Nobody, but Trump and his sycophants/worshippers talk about “collusion”.

Mueller went out of his way in his report to make that abundantly clear, and reiterated during his testimony.

Time to let go of that lie.
 
The problem is conservative America and it's desperate insistence in letting us know how little anything matters to them.

The years of philandering and bragging about it.
The constant lies.
The witness tampering, intimidation, and threats directed towards critics.
The blatant incitement of criminal acts at his rallies.
The propping up of dictators while simultaneously attacking our long term, reliable allies.

They refuse to hold him accountable no matter how abhorrent his behavior, so it is left up to the adults to handle the situation.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Nobody, but Trump and his sycophants/worshippers talk about “collusion”.

Mueller went out of his way in his report to make that abundantly clear, and reiterated during his testimony.

Time to let go of that lie.
Click to expand...

For two years it was ALL democrats talked about during the Mueller investigation, now that he was cleared of that, its time to let go of that lie?

You first.
 
I think it starts with a mindset.

Great presidents see themselves as servants with servants' hearts. They are humbled by the awesome responsibilities they have taken on. They surround themselves with men and women far more knowledgeable and expert that they themselves are. They listen and they learn. They are often overwhelmed by the reality that they simply give an order and men obediently go to their deaths. The great presidents have all visibly aged right before our eyes.

Trump sees himself as the master, not the servant. He expects everyone in the government to do his bidding, regardless of the consequences. He thinks he can call up the director of the FBI or CIA and order them to perform his personal goals. He thinks he can call up the AG and sic him on his political rivals. He thinks anyone who is not 100% loyal to him is an enemy of the state.

As I have written many times before, there has never been anyone less qualified or prepared to be president. Further, he has no desire to grow into the job or even become competent. He refuses to take counsel from anyone who does not echo his pre-conceived notions. He has proved time and again that loyalty to him is paramount, and that loyalty is not a two-way street. If anyone's name is mentioned, Trump will disavow that person in seconds if it serves his needs.

Impeached or not, re-elected or not, Trump will go down in history as the most bizarre man to ever be elected to the office.
 
Everything the Democrats have accused Trump of are things they’ve already done. The deep state is very powerful.
They’ll get another stuffed shirt puppet in the WH or die trying. Are you with them?
There will never, ever be change in Washington if they’re successful.

Their message to Trump is “play the game, or we’ll take you down”.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
For every swamp creature to leave government over the last 3 years, Trump has imported multiples of far swampier toadies.
Click to expand...

We await for your ephemeral and nonspecific argument to materialize.
 
Grandpappy said:
Everything the Democrats have accused Trump of are things they’ve already done. The deep state is very powerful.
They’ll get another stuffed shirt puppet in the WH or die trying. Are you with them?
There will never, ever be change in Washington if they’re successful.

Their message to Trump is “play the game, or we’ll take you down”.
Click to expand...

Trump doesn't have to play their game but he does have to play by the rules laid out in the constitution. He should read it sometime. He would be surprised to find that he can't do whatever he wants, even if it is to reach a desirable goal.
 
When his mommy and his daddy were giving him $Billions$ I wonder if they thought it was everybody else's fault.
 
OpportunityCost said:
For two years it was ALL democrats talked about during the Mueller investigation, now that he was cleared of that, its time to let go of that lie?

You first.
Click to expand...
^^ Pure horse ****. Trump, himself, started the asinine “no collusion” chant.
 
akyron said:
We await for your ephemeral and nonspecific argument to materialize.
Click to expand...
If, after watching the revolving cast of characters of the Trump administration come and go over the last three plus years hasn’t sunk into your cerebrum, there is nothing I, or anyone else can say that will aid in bringing you into reality.
 
OpportunityCost said:
For two years it was ALL democrats talked about during the Mueller investigation, now that he was cleared of that, its time to let go of that lie?

You first.
Click to expand...

He wasnt cleared. Mueller made that perfectly clear.

That he didnt feel he could prove beyond a reasonable doubt he did it is not the same as he didnt do it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom