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More Trump "alternative facts"

Trump Dismisses Support For Impeachment: 'I Have The Real Polls' | HuffPost
I guess Trump is willing to give us the "real" polls. Of course they are probably the alternative been told about by one of Trump's talking dolls.

In regards to the Fox poll, Trump is correct. Fox has been running bogus polls for some time...and this latest one is no different.

Dems - 49% !!!
Reps - 41% !!!
Inds - 11% !!!

Freaking HALF!!! of the people Fox sampled were Democrats or leaned Democrat. Only people with anti-Trump motives and useful idiots could possibly think this poll is anything other than bogus.

Now...I don't know what poll information Trump has. I suspect it is internal polling that his campaign has done and I won't try to judge it's credibility until I see the numbers. But it is clear that mainstream media polling is useless.
 
In regards to the Fox poll, Trump is correct. Fox has been running bogus polls for some time...and this latest one is no different.

Dems - 49% !!!
Reps - 41% !!!
Inds - 11% !!!


Freaking HALF!!! of the people Fox sampled were Democrats or leaned Democrat. Only people with anti-Trump motives and useful idiots could possibly think this poll is anything other than bogus.

Now...I don't know what poll information Trump has. I suspect it is internal polling that his campaign has done and I won't try to judge it's credibility until I see the numbers. But it is clear that mainstream media polling is useless.
Why do you promote & propagate this fallacy, rather than avail yourself to understanding proper polling methodology? Including weighting, sampling, and over-sampling?
 
In regards to the Fox poll, Trump is correct. Fox has been running bogus polls for some time...and this latest one is no different.

Dems - 49% !!!
Reps - 41% !!!
Inds - 11% !!!

Freaking HALF!!! of the people Fox sampled were Democrats or leaned Democrat. Only people with anti-Trump motives and useful idiots could possibly think this poll is anything other than bogus.

Now...I don't know what poll information Trump has. I suspect it is internal polling that his campaign has done and I won't try to judge it's credibility until I see the numbers. But it is clear that mainstream media polling is useless.

Damn, Trumpsters still believe alternative facts. Can not believe that they still do. The world Trumpsters live in should be called lala land.
 
Why do you promote & propagate this fallacy, rather than avail yourself to understanding proper polling methodology? Including weighting, sampling, and over-sampling?

I understand sampling error perfectly...even when it's done deliberately.
 
Damn, Trumpsters still believe alternative facts. Can not believe that they still do. The world Trumpsters live in should be called lala land.

Do you believe it's a fact that 49% of the US population are Democrats? Do you believe 41% of them are Republicans? And do you really believe that only 11% are Independents?

If you do...you believe in something that is NOT a fact. In my mind, that's worse than even believing in "alternative" fact. That is the epitome of "lala land".
 
In regards to the Fox poll, Trump is correct. Fox has been running bogus polls for some time...and this latest one is no different.

Dems - 49% !!!
Reps - 41% !!!
Inds - 11% !!!

Freaking HALF!!! of the people Fox sampled were Democrats or leaned Democrat. Only people with anti-Trump motives and useful idiots could possibly think this poll is anything other than bogus.

Now...I don't know what poll information Trump has. I suspect it is internal polling that his campaign has done and I won't try to judge it's credibility until I see the numbers. But it is clear that mainstream media polling is useless.

Lefties operate on "Biden-truths" not facts. :roll:
 
Why do you promote & propagate this fallacy, rather than avail yourself to understanding proper polling methodology? Including weighting, sampling, and over-sampling?

But it's not a fallacy - it's the exact sample weighting for the infamous Fox "everyone wants to impeach Trump" poll. The sample was also "registered voters" rather than the usually more accurate "likely voters".
 
Do you believe it's a fact that 49% of the US population are Democrats? Do you believe 41% of them are Republicans? And do you really believe that only 11% are Independents?

If you do...you believe in something that is NOT a fact. In my mind, that's worse than even believing in "alternative" fact. That is the epitome of "lala land".

Wow, you might be correct.

According to this report: Democratic, Republican Identification Near Historical Lows

PRINCETON, N.J. -- In 2015, for the fifth consecutive year, at least four in 10 U.S. adults identified as political independents.

In 2015 26% of voting age Americans identified as Republican, 29% as Democrat, and 42% Independent.

Of course, that's a Gallup Poll. As noted in the past polling can be skewed by all sorts of methods, including as you point out...over-sampling. ;)

93 million people did not even vote in 2016. That's 40% of eligible voters.

So shouldn't polling reflect THAT type of representation?
 
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In regards to the Fox poll, Trump is correct. Fox has been running bogus polls for some time...and this latest one is no different.

Dems - 49% !!!
Reps - 41% !!!
Inds - 11% !!!

Freaking HALF!!! of the people Fox sampled were Democrats or leaned Democrat. Only people with anti-Trump motives and useful idiots could possibly think this poll is anything other than bogus.

Now...I don't know what poll information Trump has. I suspect it is internal polling that his campaign has done and I won't try to judge it's credibility until I see the numbers. But it is clear that mainstream media polling is useless.

Ok so now Fox News is anti-Trump? Oh wait factual news reporting doesn’t always agree with him. Hannity and the club are full steam ahead.

This has to get old.
 
Wow, you might be correct.

According to this report: Democratic, Republican Identification Near Historical Lows



In 2015 26% of voting age Americans identified as Republican, 29% as Democrat, and 42% Independent.

Of course, that's a Gallup Poll. As noted in the past polling can be skewed by all sorts of methods, including as you point out...over-sampling. ;)

93 million people did not even vote in 2016. That's 40% of eligible voters.

So shouldn't polling reflect THAT type of representation?

Gallup's current numbers...

Opera Snapshot_2019-11-03_154154_news.gallup.com.jpg

Party Affiliation | Gallup Historical Trends
 
I understand sampling error perfectly...even when it's done deliberately.
Then your argument is that the polling organizations are intentionally skewing their polls? Is that your claim?
 
Ok so now Fox News is anti-Trump? Oh wait factual news reporting doesn’t always agree with him. Hannity and the club are full steam ahead.

This has to get old.

When it comes to their polling, Fox has cooked their numbers for a long time...even going back to before the 2016 election.
 
But it's not a fallacy - it's the exact sample weighting for the infamous Fox "everyone wants to impeach Trump" poll.
Despite the Trump supporter messaging, there was nothing wrong with that earlier poll, as there's nothing wrong with this poll. That's as long as they apply the correct weighting. And you realize I'm speaking of "post sample selection" weighting? Right?

The sample was also "registered voters" rather than the usually more accurate "likely voters".
As long as the pollster is accurately characterizing the group polled, what is the problem here? There's nothing wrong about finding-out the thoughts of different groups, including the thoughts of Americans in general.
 
Then your argument is that the polling organizations are intentionally skewing their polls? Is that your claim?

I don't believe those polling organizations do NOT know how to conduct valid polls. Since the bulk of polls are bogus, then yes...I do believe they are deliberately skewing their polls.

Tell me...do you seriously think Fox or the polling companies they hire do NOT know the political party numbers for the US?
 
When it comes to their polling, Fox has cooked their numbers for a long time...even going back to before the 2016 election.

To be fair, FOX appears to be using the same skewed numbers most of the other polling organizations are. They over-sample Democrats, and over-sample to a lesser extent Republicans and under-sample Independents.
 
Despite the Trump supporter messaging, there was nothing wrong with that earlier poll, as there's nothing wrong with this poll. That's as long as they apply the correct weighting. And you realize I'm speaking of "post sample selection" weighting? Right?

As long as the pollster is accurately characterizing the group polled, what is the problem here? There's nothing wrong about finding-out the thoughts of different groups, including the thoughts of Americans in general.
Seriously? The poll is misleading because it's presented WITHOUT any explanation of the sample weighing or who was actually polled. I saw masses of reports leveraging the fact that it was a "Fox poll" showing majority in favor of impeachment and removal. Not a single mention, however, that this poll did not accurately model the country's population.
 
To be fair, FOX appears to be using the same skewed numbers most of the other polling organizations are. They over-sample Democrats, and over-sample to a lesser extent Republicans and under-sample Independents.

Not only that, but they are GROSSLY undersampling Independents. It's as if they don't know that the biggest political demographic in the US doesn't even exist.

That can only be done deliberately and that is why I ALWAYS reject Fox polls.
 
I don't believe those polling organizations do NOT know how to conduct valid polls. Since the bulk of polls are bogus, then yes...I do believe they are deliberately skewing their polls.

Tell me...do you seriously think Fox or the polling companies they hire do NOT know the political party numbers for the US?
Of course they know the demographics. That's why the apply weighting after they get their data. To adjust it to reflect for the differences in the sample demographics gathered.

If your claims were true, then why were the 2016 & 2018 polling results so good? Trump won the Electoral College, but the actual vote totals were pretty damn close to the aggregate polling results prior to the election. How do you explain that?
 
In regards to the Fox poll, Trump is correct. Fox has been running bogus polls for some time...and this latest one is no different.

Dems - 49% !!!
Reps - 41% !!!
Inds - 11% !!!

Freaking HALF!!! of the people Fox sampled were Democrats or leaned Democrat. Only people with anti-Trump motives and useful idiots could possibly think this poll is anything other than bogus.

Now...I don't know what poll information Trump has. I suspect it is internal polling that his campaign has done and I won't try to judge it's credibility until I see the numbers. But it is clear that mainstream media polling is useless.

Exactly. And now that you can't trust FOX, because they're clearly a bunch of leftists out to get Trump, that leaves Stormfront and Alex Jones.
 
To be fair, FOX appears to be using the same skewed numbers most of the other polling organizations are. They over-sample Democrats, and over-sample to a lesser extent Republicans and under-sample Independents.

An interesting analysis published in March, 2019, looks at that large group that does not claim party membership (so called Independents) The vast majority of them lean either Republican or Democratic and have very negative views of the opposing party. The small group (like 7%) that does not lean, is relatively apolitical and not a voting bloc at all.

There seems to be a belief that there is this huge segment of population that swings from election to election....probably not the case.

True Independent Voters Are Few in Number, Often Apolitical
 
In regards to the Fox poll, Trump is correct. Fox has been running bogus polls for some time...and this latest one is no different.

Dems - 49% !!!
Reps - 41% !!!
Inds - 11% !!!

Freaking HALF!!! of the people Fox sampled were Democrats or leaned Democrat. Only people with anti-Trump motives and useful idiots could possibly think this poll is anything other than bogus.

Now...I don't know what poll information Trump has. I suspect it is internal polling that his campaign has done and I won't try to judge it's credibility until I see the numbers. But it is clear that mainstream media polling is useless.

Oh yes, here we go again. Judges are "activist" when they don't find the way tou want them to find, and polls are flawed when they don't show what you want them to show. Of course the judges and the pollsters have to be wrong because you are smarter and way more experienced, right? Really!!!
 
Not only that, but they are GROSSLY undersampling Independents. It's as if they don't know that the biggest political demographic in the US doesn't even exist.

That can only be done deliberately and that is why I ALWAYS reject Fox polls.

Well I reject polling in general, as you probably already know. As I've stated in the past, Statistics was my "math" requirement when I was an undergraduate.

I learned just how "reliable" polling can be, and how less and less reliable based on sample size, sampling methodology, question creation, and confirmation bias to name just a few issues.
 
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