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A post-Conservative America could be scary...

Dans La Lune

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I believe conservatism is dead or dying. Few can define it, and the right-leaning population actually doesn't seem to care. I think conservatism will be replaced with right-wing nationalist populism, if it hasn't been already, combined with far-left economic populism.

The modern conservative movement, having burned through traditional conservatism, neo-conservatism, neo-liberalism, and right-leaning libertarianism... will merge religious, ethnic, and social conservatism with left-leaning economic populism. It will be a farce; a con job; but I fear it will bleed or blur over into the progressive agenda in the way that secular atheism has been adopted by the Alt Right and Alt Light. The new modus operandi of the right isn't a battle of ideas, it's a subversive gateway infiltration into more successful populist ideologies.

The general population of any nation is more populist than anything. There is good populism, which appeals to the common interests and well-being of the people, and a bad populism, which appeals to common fears and bigotries of the people.

Donald Trump is just a taste of this; a preview of things to come. He's a fake populist with a corporate agenda. I fear that the real threat is from a merging of the far right with the populist left.
 
One thing is for certain, nobody knows what a conservative stands for these days. All of the things they say they stand for they crap all over. I think a conservative is a combination of hating anything liberal and religion, period. Conservatism is the dream of how the fifties used to be. One in three people had union jobs, the standard of living was rising and all was good in america and god was alive and well..and now that's long gone but yet the dream still persists.
 
One thing is for certain, nobody knows what a conservative stands for these days. All of the things they say they stand for they crap all over. I think a conservative is a combination of hating anything liberal and religion, period. Conservatism is the dream of how the fifties used to be. One in three people had union jobs, the standard of living was rising and all was good in america and god was alive and well..and now that's long gone but yet the dream still persists.

A good example of how quickly the right-wing can shift ideological focus: the turn on the Iraq Invasion. How many people who worshiped and supported the Bush/Cheney agenda are now singing its praise? Almost none. Rather, the exact same people who supported Bush/Cheney are now the most outspoken non-interventionists.

I can almost predict to the person those who hate so-called socialism will be singing its praise when a far-right anti-immigrant, anti-diversity candidate adopts similar policies.
 
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Conservative - Small government.

Liberal - Big government.

Easy peasy.
 
One thing is for certain, nobody knows what a conservative stands for these days. All of the things they say they stand for they crap all over. I think a conservative is a combination of hating anything liberal and religion, period. Conservatism is the dream of how the fifties used to be. One in three people had union jobs, the standard of living was rising and all was good in america and god was alive and well..and now that's long gone but yet the dream still persists.
All was good in America in the 50s if you happened to be a white male. Black or some other minority not so much.
 
A good example of how quickly the right-wing can shift ideological focus: the turn on the Iraq Invasion. How many people who worshiped and supported the Bush/Cheney agenda are now singing its praise? Almost none. Rather, the exact same people who supported Bush/Cheney are now the most outspoken non-interventionists.

I can almost predict to the person those who hate so-called socialism will be singing its praise when a far-right anti-immigrant, anti-diversity candidate adopts similar policies.

Yes people can to a degree resemble a heard of sheep, and be turned this way and that.
 
Conservatism now is hate liberals and Democrats and push for Republican view on social issues(hate gays, immigrants, etc.).. That's, it..

There are no longer fiscal conservatives. They no longer are 'law and order'. They use to respect and honor the military. Just look how they treated McCain and we can see that's out the window now.. They use to say they'd die to protect the Constitution. Now the only amendment they care about is the 2nd amendment. Now they cheer as Trump and his yes-men wipe their asses with the Constitution.

Today's conservatives have bastardize the conservative movement.
 
Conservative - Small government.

Liberal - Big government.

Easy peasy.



Conservative/Republican admins in modern history have expanded government in terms of spending more than have liberal/Dem. All you do is ignorantly perpetuate the big lie or know the fact of the matter and lie yourself. Trump has done the same. Even with employment. Sleazy-peazy.
 
All was good in America in the 50s if you happened to be a white male. Black or some other minority not so much.

Exactly. Father knew best the kids didn't talk back and mom served dinner in a dress with a smile. The right doesn't seem to do well with change.
 
Exactly. Father knew best the kids didn't talk back and mom served dinner in a dress with a smile. The right doesn't seem to do well with change.

the change I see on the streets of LA San Fran Seattle Portland San Diego leftists do well with
 
The fact of the matter is that left-wing economically populist movements are vulnerable to ideological subversion from the Right because they are, on a deeply fundamental level, bourgeois.

With feeling: economic redistribution is not incompatible with the capitalist mode of production. Indeed, capitalism is predicated on an initial act of redistribution - the enclosures in feudal Europe, affected with the force of the State - to set itself in motion. There is no capitalism historically without mercantilism, without Hamilton's American System of State-funded internal improvements, &etc. The State's redistributive mechanisms and the market have always been inexorably intertwined.

What our 'progressives' want is generalized commodity production with the edges sanded off in the guise of welfare. But this is perfectly amenable to the bourgeoisie, who see in it mechanisms useful for the maintenance of social order in the face of rising class antagonisms. This can be reduced to, very simply, "riot and we'll pull your Medicare 4 All". Neither is this anything new: Strasserism has existed since before the Strasser brothers were born.

Marxism alone is immune to this - and this only when properly understood - because it rejects fiscal redistribution in favor of appropriation of the means of production by the working-class as its object. And it understands this object as the culmination of the capitalist mode of production, what capitalism has been developing towards for its entire existence, rather than as something to be realized voluntaryistically, through bourgeois political action.

Bourgeois ideology increasingly perfects itself, increasingly ceases to be distinguishable in its Left and Right incarnations, increasingly becomes more overheated as the essential differences cease to be identifiable, increasingly becomds a matter of style over substance. Thus Trump can win on pledges to "protect Medicare" while Obama can commit to austerity. They are two parts of a bourgeois whole.
 
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An interesting thread. My first stop was Merriam-Webster on line dictionary to refresh my memory of the meaning of the word conservatism. There's a tension here. It's in the definition's of conserve and conservatism. Today's conservative is not committed to conserving what is. Rather, there's a desire to roll back the calendar to an earlier time. That's closer to a reactionary or ultra-conservative philosophy of government.

Then there's another tension. It comes to light when conservatives are actually in control of a government, be it city, state or nation. The principles of textbook conservatism [Ed.: as listed in the dictionary] are not necessarily put into practice. Conservatives in power can be swayed by very human motives and stray from the rigid path of ideology. Serpents with apples labeled 'personal gain' lurk in the halls of legislatures and administrations.

I'll not get into the attitudes of conservatives toward liberals, nor that of liberals toward conservatives. That's a separate matter entirely, as is the impact of religion.
 
One thing is for certain, nobody knows what a conservative stands for these days. All of the things they say they stand for they crap all over. I think a conservative is a combination of hating anything liberal and religion, period. Conservatism is the dream of how the fifties used to be. One in three people had union jobs, the standard of living was rising and all was good in america and god was alive and well..and now that's long gone but yet the dream still persists.

The one redeeming fact is that the old, white religious right is dying-off gradually, and their backward Bronze Age faith and far-right ideology is dying with them. We can but hope anyway.
 
So the OP was right, conservatism is dyin...er, dead.

Hi! Conservatism isn't dead, but its popularity may be waning. If you're looking for how it can be used by a would-be dictator, see Madeleine Albright's book, Fascism.

Regards.
 
Liberal... Submissive to the UN.

Conservative... Lead by example.

Nonsense.

Conservative=Never criticize religion, Trump, or whites; No abortions, no sex unless it's the way, manner, and with whom we approve.

Conservatives today are entirely too concerned with everyone else's personal business, and criminalizing behavior. It's pathetic.
 
Good, I'm delighted you agree it's just as progressive as christianity.

Christianity is not progressive - that's why leftists despise it.

Progressives luv Islam because both groups share many core values. Like progressivism, Islam is anti-Christian, anti-capitalism, anti-free speech, and pro big government. As a nice bonus, Islam's hatred of the West dovetails nicely with the white guilt and self-loathing of the typical leftist.
 
Christianity is not progressive - that's why leftists despise it.

Progressives luv Islam because both groups share many core values. Like progressivism, Islam is anti-Christian, anti-capitalism, anti-free speech, and pro big government. As a nice bonus, Islam's hatred of the West dovetails nicely with the white guilt and self-loathing of the typical leftist.

Do you think centuries of invasions and exploitation of resources through colonisation might have something to do with this "hatred"? I would rather be forward-looking and progressive than stuck in some backward religious regressive state. If you despise progress so much I suggest you give away your computer, your car, your refrigerator, your stove and everything else that progress is benefiting you with. Go and wear a sack in a cave and pray for a moose to wander past to club over the head for dinner.
 
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