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I want a new candidate to enter the race

What if...? said:
The IRS was never weaponized against the tea party.

This is a lie. An entry in The Conservative Recent Historry Book. Read the IRS AG report. He gigged them for not doing their jobs, using search words to determine who got picked for further scrutiny instead of examining each as they were supposed to. This resulted in (paraphrase) those who should have been approved to be held up and some who should have been denied being passed through.

You are repeating a myth, unsupported by the facts of the matter. Spread by your propagandists.

This isn't the only entry in the CRHB. You have recent history distinct from that of the rest of the world.

Occam's razor says you have been lied to.
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I'm sure you're correct. :sarcasticclap

IRS Scandal Ends As It Began With An Apology

IRS Scandal Fast Facts - CNN

IRS Apologizes For Aggressive Scrutiny Of Conservative Groups : NPR
 
GreatNews2night said:
It's even worth as far as losers go, because she is such a loser, that she managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. She was so stupid in her campaign strategist that she neglected the Rust Bell states, after committing the blunder that she'd do away with coal mine jobs.

If you have the victory at your finger tips and you still manage to lose through many unforced errors, you're a proven loser.
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Well, Comey and the Russians helped a bit.
 
nitroexpress said:
I'm sure you're correct. :sarcasticclap

IRS Scandal Ends As It Began With An Apology

IRS Scandal Fast Facts - CNN

IRS Apologizes For Aggressive Scrutiny Of Conservative Groups : NPR
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Did you actually read the IG report?

I just did again.

It says what I said.

And all of your links do not say that that is not the case.

All of the apologies and lawsuits were settled because the use of inappropriate criteria caused harm.

Nowhere does anything say it was a conspiracy to stifle the speech of conservative groups. And y'all have nothing to say about several liberal groups who also fell victim to the same searchword screening.

This was beaurocratic laziness. Not a grand scheme.

And none of it would have happened if hundreds of conservative groups hadn't filed for 501(c)(4) status to obtain donor anonymity instead of 527 status that did not confer donor anonymity.

None of your propaganda has ever had any reason why they didn't just file for 527 status, where they could have spent as much as they liked on electioneering and no scrutiny would have been called for by standing IRS rules that seek to prevent abuse of non profit statuses as electioneering is perfectly legal for 527s.

527 is different from 501(c)(4) in only two areas: 100% of donations can be spent on electioneering activities as opposed to only 49% with 501(c)(4)s. And 527 doesn't have anonymous donors.

That's it.

So maybe you should be asking yourself why they went for 501(c)(4) in the first place instead of focusing on the lazy solution the IRS employees chose to deal with many times more 501(c)(4) applications than had ever been applied for in one year before.

Read the IG report. It's in one of your links.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Look, I'm not just operating on the Trump image generated by the left leaning media. Hell, the right leaning media also depicts him as a saint, and I'm not buying that, either. I'm judging Trump on his actions and his own words, not on any distortion. Trump is outspoken enough to give us a pretty good idea of what he's about. And no, enlisting a foreign government to interfere with our elections to take down a political opponent is not OK. Licking the balls of dictators like Putin and Kim Jong Un is not OK. Trying to get the G7 Summit to prop up the profits of one of his properties is not OK. Fostering white supremacy and hateful divisiveness is not OK.

Believe me, Trump makes no secret of his shortcomings, regardless of the left leaning media. The man is disgusting and utterly unqualified for the job of POTUS. Putting him there was a mistake. We the people need to acknowledge this mistake and get him the hell out of there.
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And yet he's doing a good job. The country is running fine, despite the fact that he is a despicable human being.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Well said, and I agree with almost everything you are bringing up. I'd just add that maybe better than trying to find a way to cover at least the basic health needs of illegal aliens, would be to prevent them from coming in to our country to start with!

I have several ideas to curtail illegal immigration, and none of them starts with a wall.
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I want to make something very clear, especially after mulling it over for a while last night.
On the whole, I think you have stated your case very well and I am going to say that you have helped me find good reasons to modify my POV somewhat.
You sold me. :)

It's not that I suddenly am abandoning my call for healthcare to be provided to illegals, it's more a case of where I put it on the totem pole. And you have helped me realize that, in the bigger picture, it's by far not the most important issue we should worry about.
And truth be told, I would certainly be perfectly happy if it were just possible to allow illegals to PURCHASE HEALTH INSURANCE the same way the rest of us have to. If they cannot even afford to purchase health coverage, then it begs the question as to whether or not they should have even considered coming here in the first place.

To refugees, real actual legitimate refugees who can prove that they are fleeing documented terror in their home countries, I would want to see efforts made at providing at least a minimum standard of care which reflects the need for a PUBLIC HEALTH service effort to manage risks to the rest of US society.
In other words, if they are legit refugees, and they are here, we need to make sure that they do not pose a PUBLIC HEALTH THREAT to the rest of us at the very least.

But for people who simply came here without authorization, or who are still here without further authorization, they still should be able to buy their own coverage, and if they cannot, then perhaps they need to be deported anyway.

There, that should cover the illegals and not pose a burden to the rest of us.
Hopefully you will agree that that is a reasonable position.

You know, a lot of times, people get the impression that this or that issue is always at or near the top just because a liberal or a lefty suggests it. My position is, I think it might be a good idea, that's all.

The issues I truly think are at or near the tippy top are numerous:

Healthcare for Americans and legal residents
Higher education, job training
Environment
Jobs
Technology advancement
Energy ideas
Foreign policy
Women's rights
Gay equality

Healthcare for illegals has always been further down the totem pole for me, but I do think we need better ideas to tackle the problems. But you have made a solid case and I thank you.
 
JMR said:
Didn't they represent Wells Fargo when Warren was in Congress? When did she work for them?
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Michelle Obama worked for S&A, not Lieyawatha (to the best of my recollection)
 
TurtleDude said:
Michelle Obama worked for S&A, not Lieyawatha (to the best of my recollection)
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OK...didn't you start off with Elizabeth Warren having no executive experience and a bad time at a law firm, which you later identified as S&A? What does Michelle Obama have to do with this? What was the name of the law firm that Warren supposedly worked for? It appears to me that she went from law school to the classroom.
 
JMR said:
OK...didn't you start off with Elizabeth Warren having no executive experience and a bad time at a law firm, which you later identified as S&A? What does Michelle Obama have to do with this? What was the name of the law firm that Warren supposedly worked for? It appears to me that she went from law school to the classroom.
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You jumped in on a discussion which started (from my position) with this post


GreatNews2night said:
Maybe the best bet would be a Biden/Buttigieg ticket, provided that they could beat Trump, which is not a given, and will be actually very, very, very difficult to accomplish, despite the naive and optimistic assertions to the contrary by those who think there will be a blue wave like in 2018 (nope! beating an incumbent is not the same as making gains in a mid-term election) and any Dem will crush Trump. No, there are only a few people who can beat Trump. One of them is Michelle Obama (might actually be the only one) but she won't run. Anyway, if Biden wins the nomination and beats Trump (not an easy feat) after picking Buttigieg as his running mates, then hopefully Biden gets too demented after one year in power (meanwhile Buttigieg earns some experience during his sting as veep) and Buttigieg takes over.

I know, convoluted... but one can dream. That would be a great outcome, for America.
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Moderate Right said:
And yet he's doing a good job. The country is running fine, despite the fact that he is a despicable human being.
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Running fine? The only thing that *for now* is running fine is the economy, and this may not last. But hatred and divisiveness are at a peak. I wouldn't call it "running fine."
 
GreatNews2night said:
Running fine? The only thing that *for now* is running fine is the economy, and this may not last. But hatred and divisiveness are at a peak. I wouldn't call it "running fine."
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When four out of every ten working Americans doesn't have enough on hand to cover a four hundred dollar emergency...again DESPITE BEING EMPLOYED, one cannot even say that the economy is running fine.

The economy is running fine for the upper middle class, and the one percent.
For the average working stiff, not so much.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Running fine? The only thing that *for now* is running fine is the economy, and this may not last. But hatred and divisiveness are at a peak. I wouldn't call it "running fine."
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Everything else is running fine too. What isn't running fine? And don't tell me Trump hurt's people's feelings or calls them names.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I want to make something very clear, especially after mulling it over for a while last night.
On the whole, I think you have stated your case very well and I am going to say that you have helped me find good reasons to modify my POV somewhat.
You sold me. :)
But you have made a solid case and I thank you.
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Wow. That's rare, here! Thank you!

Again, I have nothing against allowing illegals to purchase health insurance. That doesn't put a burden on American taxpayers; might even save us some money like ER fees.

Refugees can already qualify for Medicaid. Refugees, once they are granted the official status (that is, are approved as legitimate refugees), are lawful residents and they are eligible for benefits.

As for public health, it's not too hard to do a few tests. Like, Quantiferon Gold test will tell if they have tuberculosis, and a few weeks of free treatment at the County Health Department solves the problem.

The above can be perfectly done without extending elective health care to illegal aliens, which like I said and now you agree, is a bad, bad, bad idea.

As for your priorities, I couldn't agree more.

Where you probably disagree with me, is that as a centrist, I'm ALSO for a strong military (because the world out there is tough), and I'm for an assertive foreign policy that protects our interests. I am more to the right outside of our borders, and more to the left in domestic and social issues.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Wow. That's rare, here! Thank you!

Again, I have nothing against allowing illegals to purchase health insurance. That doesn't put a burden on American taxpayers; might even save us some money like ER fees.

Refugees can already qualify for Medicaid. Refugees, once they are granted the official status (that is, are approved as legitimate refugees), are lawful residents and they are eligible for benefits.

As for public health, it's not too hard to do a few tests. Like, Quantiferon Gold test will tell if they have tuberculosis, and a few weeks of free treatment at the County Health Department solves the problem.

The above can be perfectly done without extending elective health care to illegal aliens, which like I said and now you agree, is a bad, bad, bad idea.

As for your priorities, I couldn't agree more.

Where you probably disagree with me, is that as a centrist, I'm ALSO for a strong military (because the world out there is tough), and I'm for an assertive foreign policy that protects our interests. I am more to the right outside of our borders, and more to the left in domestic and social issues.
Click to expand...

---I am a lefty and I am all for a strong military, a strong SMART military.
Wifey is a 100% service connected disabled Navy veteran.
Karen served as a diesel mechanic on a tugboat full of men, best wrench on Treasure Island.

Don't fall for the notion that all lefties hate the military.
I just hate pointless wars and sloppy foreign policy that believes that a military solution is always the first choice or option.

But our men and women in uniform are heroes, even those who served in peacetime.
 
Moderate Right said:
Everything else is running fine too. What isn't running fine? And don't tell me Trump hurt's people's feelings or calls them names.
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Talk to a millennial who can't get a decent job to pay for burdensome student loans. Talk to a middle-aged middle class American who worked hard his entire life and unfortunately got cancer, and then went bankrupt because of poorly covered ultra-expensive chemotherapy. Talk to minorities who get harassed by white supremacists. Talk to a worthy high school graduate who can't go to a four-year college and needs to settle for a community college and then get a mediocre low-paid job, because even though he has merit, he can't afford a good college and merit scholarships are not enough to cater to every kid like him. Talk to retirees who can't make ends meet and live in poverty.

Then, compare with developed countries in Europe where healthcare and university tuition are free, differences are more tolerated, and dignified retirement is a given, although those countries are less wealthy than ours.

Then, the idea of "everything else is running fine" might be a lot less convincing.

This said, I don't think everything can be solved from night to day with a festival of freebies, because our country is bigger and our society more complex than that of smaller and more homogeneous European countries. But the system does need reform, which might be painful and slow, but needs doing. Still, even though I recognize that the problems are huge and have no easy solution like Bernie Sanders thinks, I wouldn't say the country is running fine. Much the opposite.
 
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GreatNews2night said:
Wow. That's rare, here! Thank you!

Again, I have nothing against allowing illegals to purchase health insurance. That doesn't put a burden on American taxpayers; might even save us some money like ER fees.

Refugees can already qualify for Medicaid. Refugees, once they are granted the official status (that is, are approved as legitimate refugees), are lawful residents and they are eligible for benefits.

As for public health, it's not too hard to do a few tests. Like, Quantiferon Gold test will tell if they have tuberculosis, and a few weeks of free treatment at the County Health Department solves the problem.

The above can be perfectly done without extending elective health care to illegal aliens, which like I said and now you agree, is a bad, bad, bad idea.

As for your priorities, I couldn't agree more.

Where you probably disagree with me, is that as a centrist, I'm ALSO for a strong military (because the world out there is tough), and I'm for an assertive foreign policy that protects our interests. I am more to the right outside of our borders, and more to the left in domestic and social issues.
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You made fine posts with great detail, but again, the entire reason those candidates support the insane idea is that it will NEVER pass, but gains support from Latinx voters.

It's a 4-way win for the mega-sleazy politicians:

- Their plutocrat owners will be happy to see the broken/criminal health care system untouched

- They buy Latinx votes in the process

- They have an excuse for this ridiculous M4A plan not going anywhere

- They can blame the evil Republicans for being heartless because little two year old Pablo or Conchita with the big eyes needs a kidney, but Moonpie Mitch won't pass the bill

It was 100% political BS from the get-go, and no one who knows anything about how corrupt, sleazy and broken our entire political process & its actors are ever thought anything else.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
---I am a lefty and I am all for a strong military, a strong SMART military.
Wifey is a 100% service connected disabled Navy veteran.
Karen served as a diesel mechanic on a tugboat full of men, best wrench on Treasure Island.

Don't fall for the notion that all lefties hate the military.
I just hate pointless wars and sloppy foreign policy that believes that a military solution is always the first choice or option.

But our men and women in uniform are heroes, even those who served in peacetime.
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Man, I like you. Like I said from the beginning even when we disagreed, I immediately noticed that you mean well. You're a nice person. We could be friends in real life. Thank your wife on my behalf, for her service. Yes, our men and women in uniform are heroes, and I lament when they are misused (but like I said sometimes we need to be assertive, which doesn't mean we'll engage in silly wars - but if we allow the Russians and the Chinese to entirely dominate the world, we'll regret it, as these countries are way more ruthless than we've ever been).

I spent seven months helping Veterans at one point in my career (and I remember fondly those months; I had to move on for unrelated reasons otherwise I would have done it for longer), and my son, who is a lawyer, was granted a national award for winning a lawsuit against the Department of Defense on behalf of Veterans who had been mistreated by the Military and got dishonorable discharges that were unfair and unwarranted. He did it pro bono; didn't charge a cent; when he won, he allowed the plaintiffs to get the full settlement instead of getting a cut for himself.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
---I am a lefty and I am all for a strong military, a strong SMART military.
Wifey is a 100% service connected disabled Navy veteran.
Karen served as a diesel mechanic on a tugboat full of men, best wrench on Treasure Island.

Don't fall for the notion that all lefties hate the military.
I just hate pointless wars and sloppy foreign policy that believes that a military solution is always the first choice or option.

But our men and women in uniform are heroes, even those who served in peacetime.
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You're not a lefty - you're liberal. (aka conservative)
 
Airyaman said:
There are still some good "centrists" in the race. Klobuchar, Buttigieg, Booker. Seriously, what makes Bloomberg better than any of them?
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He's rich, He has YUGE hands.
 
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