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Trump kept '2 sets of books' and may have committed financial fraud

Neither were fraudulent....
Show us the laws which allow you to claim completely different "expenses, profits and occupancy figures" for the same properties, in the same year, to a lender and on a tax form.


There isn't and owner of a property seeking tax rate adjustments in the city who doesn't lowball property value estimates. And estimate is the name of game.
:roll:

Again! This is not about estimates of property values. Read the article. Yeesh.
 
We are not discussing Manafort. We are discussing Trump. And unless you have documented proof he lied on mortgage applications, stop the BS.

Maybe you should get a clue, Trump's financing came from investment banks and private sources. Not that he lied to these very sophisticated sources of finance, but they are not covered by Federal banking laws or Federal mortgage insurance.

As an individual who flipped many properties, I tell you the Federal financing laws prohibiting federal guaranteed loans for flipped properties is relatively recent. I never borrowed a dime to flip a property, and in the true sense of term, flipping meant selling the contract, not the property. A contract is personalty and was not covered by any Federal laws or State banking laws. A purchaser of a property with an FHA mortgage loan for a purchase money mortgage cannot apply for that loan if buying a contract or a property not lived in by the conveyor unless it is from a foreclosure sale. Only when NYC realized they were losing revenues when contracts were flipped, did they make the contracts subject to transfer taxes, setting a pattern for other taxing authorities. Subsequently the FHA decided the middleman in a flip constituted fraud, because the middleman inflated the price and value of the property. Even so, the restriction by the FHA is only for residential domiciles requiring the grantor to have lived in the premises for one year prior to conveyance and only effects FHA insured mortgages. Private money mortgage insurance may have different terms. The FHA makes exception for premises bought out of foreclosure and rehabbed, because that is often the only method for the FHA to rescue its own insured mortgages. Because of NYC's transfer tax on contracts, it actually became less expensive for the middleman to close and then sell, than to flip a contract, and the term flip earned a new definition.

Of course you throw out possibilities of fraud as if they were committed by Trump. But of that accusation you have no knowledge, other than a feeling. We have a term in NYC that translates to "feel this," accompanied by the sign of Mo. :)

When you get some clues as to how the real estate industry functions, give me a holler. Your political talking points have failed.

And unless you have documented truth that he didn't, you can sthu as well.
 
Whoaaaa. Two sets of books!!!

sounds really crooked!!!Oh wait...
One of the dirty little secrets of finance is that publicly traded corporations maintain two different sets of “books,” or accounting ledgers. Before you get all riled up and start calling various attorney generals’ offices, understand that it is perfectly legal and normal.

One set of books is for the financial statements that they present to shareholders when they file their quarterly reports with the U.S. SEC, and that set is prepared according to GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles). The other set is the books they keep to pay their taxes to the IRS.

The government, it turns out, doesn’t much care for “generally accepted” and is often only concerned with what actually happened. It usually doesn’t want to hear about “estimates.” GAAP, on the other hand, actually requires management to make estimates of both revenues and expenses all the time.

Is it OK to Keep Two Sets of Books? A Primer on Deferred Tax Assets

( Cue sad trombone....WOMP WOMP WOMP)

Try to stay on track, two sets of books are absolutely legal. Using one set to lower your taxes and the other set to obtain bank loans is fraud. Don't believe me? Try it yourself.
 
Thats not what I said. Try and respond to what is written not what you wish I had written. This is simply another case where you leftists will believe absolutely anything you read without applying so much as a grain of independent thought. No wonder you guys were so easily duped by the collusion hoax.

If the President retweeted posts originated by the GRU (which he did), did he collude with Russians, or is he just a 'useful idiot'?
 
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Is there anyone in our country that doesn't know that Donald Trump is a fraud? I would love to know because those people would be idiots.
 
Well where there is smoke...............

A dead givaway is how hard he has fought to avoid revealing his tax records.
 
Try to stay on track, two sets of books are absolutely legal. Using one set to lower your taxes and the other set to obtain bank loans is fraud. Don't believe me? Try it yourself.

It doesn't mater how many sets you keep, as long as your tax return contains accurate information and your loan contains accurate information. Until proven otherwise, this is more masturbatory material for TDSers.
 
Trump kept '2 sets of books' and may have committed financial fraud

if true, i wouldn't be shocked. if false, i would be shocked.
 
Nothing like a white tower expert who has a feeling. :lamo

Even now, retired, I keep two sets of books. One for tax purposes, the second for my own personal methods of judging my positions. I use the services of CPA and a tertiary attorney to assure myself that my tax obligations are fully met. However, tax required methods of bookkeeping do not provide complete data for determining vulnerabilities, liabilities or both short and long range goal positioning. Tax methodology does not show leaks and hidden gains of market values for positions in place. i.e. Land purchased at $100 per acre X years ago may now have a market value of $1,000 per acre or ¢10 per acre. Neither value, positive or negative, visible from tax methodology. On the books the value remains at $100 per acre, as amortized since the date of purchase, or not amortized, and still that $100 per acre. The same holds true for equity and commodity acquisitions.

45 years ago I bought my first wife an emerald and ruby necklace costing $4,600. Today, that necklace is worth $610,000. She passed and I still have the necklace having automatically accrued to me as heir by the entirety. For asset statements it still shows by its original purchase price. When I pass, my executor will have to sell it at its current market value so that my heirs receive fair distribution pursuant to my will, if they choose to sell. It is insured for current market value. Every now and then my daughters and daughter in laws borrow it to wear for special events in their lives. My granddaughter wore it at her wedding this summer to commemorate her lost grandmother. Otherwise it remains in a secure vault for future disposition. For sentimental reasons I refuse to let it go. My heirs may prefer to do the same with the necklace and other jewelry I bought my wife that has also greatly appreciated. Regardless, until it is sold it will never appear on any tax forms. And should it be sold after my demise, because my estate will be under taxing limits with the bulk of my assets already transferred to trusts, there will be no estate taxes, there will be no capital gains, because my heirs will receive it at its current value after it leaves my estate.

All my equities positions are in a separate trust for benefit of my issue, their issue and so on. While I live I am the sole manager, and when I die, management passes equally to my four children or their heirs if they predecease me. The trust pays its own gains taxes with its own Federal Id # because I occasionally convey a piece to acquire others. Even my art collection, with pieces purchased directly from artists at rock bottom prices compared to today's valuations are in a trust. Some are worthless, some appreciated at astronomical numbers. A simple piece of pottery purchased from Zakin for $30 50 years ago is today valued at $8k. And he is still alive. :)



Be thankful I'm not charging you for this lesson in money management. :)

It is not the keeping of two separate books that is the issue. It is using the one for borrowing funds and the other for paying taxes. Either the lenders were being cheated, or the IRS....
 
They wanted Hillary to be locked up for email mismanagement where Trump's own administration investigated and found no evidence of criminal intent and where no one had ever gone to prison for such a crime. Wlll they want Trump to be locked up for real fraud where countless people have gone to prison?

Moreover, if Trump is so rich, why does he need to lie on loan applications?

The next question could be after defaulting on so many loans why did one bank in particular continue to lend him huge amounts?
 
covering the big three in post #2 is a little inconsiderate of others. Maybe i wanted to deep state. Maybe i wanted to victim narrative and surely i wanted to whatabout emails. I'm just saying, leave a little cake for others when you're that early.


;)

benghazi!!!!!!
 
Neither were fraudulent, and it wasn't to the NYS tax authorities, it was to the NYC RE Tax adjustment bureau. There isn't and owner of a property seeking tax rate adjustments in the city who doesn't lowball property value estimates. And estimate is the name of game.

To put it nicely, you are FOS.

Artificially inflating the supposed value of a property that you are using as a basis for getting a loan is bank fraud, dude. It’s illegal to lie to a bank and say you have a billion dollars in assets, making them believe it’s safe to loan you a million.m
 
Whoaaaa. Two sets of books!!!

sounds really crooked!!!Oh wait...
One of the dirty little secrets of finance is that publicly traded corporations maintain two different sets of “books,” or accounting ledgers. Before you get all riled up and start calling various attorney generals’ offices, understand that it is perfectly legal and normal.

One set of books is for the financial statements that they present to shareholders when they file their quarterly reports with the U.S. SEC, and that set is prepared according to GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles). The other set is the books they keep to pay their taxes to the IRS.

The government, it turns out, doesn’t much care for “generally accepted” and is often only concerned with what actually happened. It usually doesn’t want to hear about “estimates.” GAAP, on the other hand, actually requires management to make estimates of both revenues and expenses all the time.

Is it OK to Keep Two Sets of Books? A Primer on Deferred Tax Assets

( Cue sad trombone....WOMP WOMP WOMP)

Except Trump Org is not publicly traded.
 
It doesn't mater how many sets you keep, as long as your tax return contains accurate information and your loan contains accurate information. Until proven otherwise, this is more masturbatory material for TDSers.

Okay, so you agree that it is wrong if the two sets are used for the different purposes I describe? I can wait to see the outcome, but here is something you should remember every day about your boyo in the White House. His NY charitable foundation was shut down because they cheated a children's oncology clinic (in addition to others). He considered his financial situation to be of greater importance than children with cancer. What a repugnant human being.
 
Even now, retired, I keep two sets of books.

Everything you described is legal. But this is not:

OP story you did not bother to read said:
Trump told a lender that he got twice as much rent from one building as he reported to tax authorities that year.

That's just one example.
 
People have for decades talked about Trump Corp and its propensity to value its properties one way for tax purposes and another for loan purposes and other dealings. The basic idea was from Fred, not DonDon. It has been "enhanced" by DonDon as he always makes things bigger, bolder, riskier.

What Fred would do is depend on the IRS standard for valuing rental real estate property. The IRS will allow a tax payer to use a general benchmark for rental real estate properties in the particular area that the tax payer owns properties. Fred and his accountant (the same accountant still working for Trump Corp) would find a property that they could make a reasonable case should be the benchmark for the property they wanted to rate for tax purposes. Now we are talking about big dollars here. So if for example your property really should be benchmarked against properties at the top of the rate scale and you benchmark it against properties at the bottom of the scale, you are really talking about a big difference in the tax treatment outcome. Then when Fred wanted to value the property for loan or other purposes, converting it for example, he would use a more definitive and property specific valuation.

This is another example of the difference between real estate genius and meticulous attender to detail Fred and screaming idiot DonDon. Fred would always keep track of where he was with each property in real time. He was that way with every single property, a stunning example of his attention to detail because he had multiple properties some he was converting some not, some he was selling some not and he managed to juggle all of those different balls of valuation without dropping even one of them. In fact when you consider that Fred not only had to juggle valuation, he had to keep track of how much money he was spending in conversions at particular properties and when he would be able to bring those properties on line again generating revenue. Simply stated, though Fred was epically corrupt, he was a real estate genius and his genius had its basis in his unbelievable attention to detail and his relationship with his accountant.

I think one of the reasons DonDon does not want people seeing his taxes is because buried in that quagmire of property valuations is the same property being valued one way one year and another way another year with no rhyme nor reason to any of it. In other words, DonDon did not care to keep track of the valuations one property to the next and one year to the next nor was he even capable of doing it. He just shot from the hip and dared the IRS to catch up to him. The apple in this case fell a long way from the tree.

Now that brings us to opportunities like Doral. Lost in all the horse dung about bed bugs and the need for helicopter pads and the lack of enough high rate space for that many dignitaries is the number of upgrades that would have to happen going into the G7 and coming out of it. So, not only would Doral normally be empty in June of 2020 just as any South Florida facility like it is empty in June of any year but there would be a number of upgrades to it made going into the G7 and I think generally considered made at the tax payer's expense. Those upgrades would remain after the G7 left. Trumpkin's claims to the contrary "HAD HE CONTINUED WITH THE DORAL PLAN ARE LUDICROUS ON THEIR SURFACE. Trump Corp would not have paid for the work. Neither would Doral and neither would DonDon personally. So you end up with DonDon filling up a facility that would normally be empty in June of any year, thus absorbing a monster amount of sunk cost at the least plus gaining all the bookings preparatory to the G7. Then gaining all the upgrades at the tax payer's expense and very likely valuing the place for tax purposes just as it was before the upgrades. All the while claiming that he has not profited from the G7. Nice work if you can get it DonDon.

I should leave open the possibility that Doral as an opportunity relating to the G7 may have generated so much attention that DonDon could not get away with his usual array of skulduggery and would not try it. That said I have never seen DonDon shy away from just the sort of opportunity Doral represented to him.
 

Facts are facts. How do you liberally spin — if true — the reality of two sets of books.

And how do the Daily Caller and the Capital Research Center rate on the bias scale?

Seems to me that one should examine the evidence, not our presumptions about the messengers.
 
Artificially inflating the supposed value of a property that you are using as a basis for getting a loan is bank fraud, dude. It’s illegal to lie to a bank and say you have a billion dollars in assets, making them believe it’s safe to loan you a million.m

It is mind bending to see what the "law and Order" Right will justify when it comes to Trump.
 
It's about inconsistencies between tax filings and loan forms, which are so great that it practically screams "fraud."

You brought up flipping. Loan forms that didn't exist makes for a great source. I read the opinion piece, it was not an article. It was character assassination.
 
Show us the laws which allow you to claim completely different "expenses, profits and occupancy figures" for the same properties, in the same year, to a lender and on a tax form.



Cool story, bro -- and yet another failed attempt at obfuscation. The only relevance of Ladder Capital in this discussion is that it's the source of the lending documents. Their track record, good or bad, is irrelevant.

Who said any such laws exist?

Tell me how supposed loans were requested from Ladder Capital when Ladder never made mortgage loans? They were a secondary market investor group. Maybe that didn't sink in?

You're speaking of fraud, except your source is a fraud.
 
You brought up flipping. Loan forms that didn't exist makes for a great source. I read the opinion piece, it was not an article. It was character assassination.

You think...banks don’t have forms you fill out when getting a loan?
 
Try to stay on track. There is nothing wrong with keeping two sets of books. It is fraud if you use one set to figure your taxes, and the other set to qualify for bank loans. Bad news for djt, he probably used the same techniques for his state tax filing, and no one will be able to pardon him for that.

He had professionals submitting his tax forms. CPA's and tertiary attorneys. None of which would be willing to perpetrate a tax fraud for a client and jeopardize their licenses.

Moreover, for both NYS and the Federal government, rights of re-entry cease after 6 years. It is a moot issue.
 
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